Crews Radio Show

[hsmith19]

that actually is the most often cited origin of the term "hoosier", as used exclusively in the in st. louis area.

it a another way to call someone "white trash", and can be a noun, an adjective, whatever: "you are a goddam hoosier", "that is a hoosier neighborhood".

No, the Samuel Hoosier story is not the most often cited origin theory for the StL use of the term. The most often cited theory here is the urban legend that Indianans were brought in to break a labor streak in St. Louis. No one seems to have ever found any credible evidence that such a strike ever occurred, but this story gets repeated every time somebody does an article on the origin of the term. The Samuel Hoosier story explains the original use of the term for Indianans; not why it continues to be used differently in St. Louis.

OK, I know you aren't really interested, but I am going to post this anyway. While there is no verifiable answer to the derivation of the term Hoosier, the following is what is thought to be likely most correct.

A Louisville contractor named Samuel Hoosier preferred to hire workers from communities on the Indiana side of the Ohio River like New Albany rather than Kentuckians. During the excavation of the first canal around the Falls of the Ohio from 1826 to 1833, his employees became known as "Hoosier's men" and then simply "Hoosiers". The usage spread from these hard-working laborers to all of the Indiana boatmen in the area and then spread north with the settlement of the state.

Yeah, this theory definitely makes the most sense. I've also read that in the 1800s it was popular slang throughout the Midwest and Midsouth to refer to a "rustic" country bumpkin-ish person, in addition to refer to someone from Indiana. I don't think anyone has ever come up with a very convincing theory for why the more general use has lasted so much longer in St. Louis than anywhere else, or why it acquired such an overly negative connotation here in the first place. No real explanation, just a quirk of local lingo that took on a life of its own, I suspect.

[TheChosenOne]

HSmith19, you are a real know it all. How old are you and what do you do for a living?

[hsmith19]

HSmith19, you are a real know it all. How old are you and what do you do for a living?

I don't know it all about much, but I do know quite a bit about hoosierdom if I do say so myself.

[HoosierPal]

I don't think anyone has ever come up with a very convincing theory for why the more general use has lasted so much longer in St. Louis than anywhere else, or why it acquired such an overly negative connotation here in the first place. No real explanation, just a quirk of local lingo that took on a life of its own, I suspect.

Being a native Hoosier from Indiana, and have traveled throughout most of the US, I can say that St. Louis is the only city where hoosier is a derogatory term. OK, enough of the OT for now.

[bonwich]

Hoosiers (lower case, only capitalized because it's at the start of this sentence) love to eat at Cracker Barrel. Think about it.

[White Pelican]

Being a native Hoosier from Indiana, and have traveled throughout most of the US, I can say that St. Louis is the only city where hoosier is a derogatory term. OK, enough of the OT for now.

I've lived here all my life and I have always wondered why it's a pejorative here. As a young kid, I first heard 'hoosier' used by my mother's father to describe his low-life neighbors. One of my brothers and his son use it that way. No one else in the family does. It was years later that I learned Hoosier meant an Indiana native.

[hsmith19]

The IU article on the subject claims it was originally sort of neutral or mildly derogatory before it became a badge of honor:

http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/internet/extra/hoosier.html

"The best evidence, however, suggests that 'Hoosier' was a term of contempt and opprobrium common in the upland South and used to denote a rustic, a bumpkin, a countryman, a roughneck, a hick or an awkward, uncouth or unskilled fellow. Although the word's derogatory meaning has faded, it can still be heard in its original sense, albeit less frequently than its cousins 'Cracker' and 'Redneck.'

From the South "Hoosier" moved north and westward with the people into the Ohio Valley, where it was applied at first to the presumably unsophisticated inhabitants of Southern Indiana. Later it expanded to include all residents of the state and gradually lost its original, potent connotation of coarseness in manners, appearance and intellect."

"While 'hoosier' may still be heard in areas of the south in its original, disparaging meaning of 'uncouth rustic,' the term seems to be slowly loosing currency. One important pocket of linguistic resistance, however, remains. Thomas E. Murray carefully analyzed the use of 'hoosier' in St. Louis, Missouri, where it is the favorite epithet of abuse."

[Pistol]

The IU article on the subject claims it was originally sort of neutral or mildly derogatory before it became a badge of honor:

http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/internet/extra/hoosier.html

"The best evidence, however, suggests that 'Hoosier' was a term of contempt and opprobrium common in the upland South and used to denote a rustic, a bumpkin, a countryman, a roughneck, a hick or an awkward, uncouth or unskilled fellow. Although the word's derogatory meaning has faded, it can still be heard in its original sense, albeit less frequently than its cousins 'Cracker' and 'Redneck.'

From the South "Hoosier" moved north and westward with the people into the Ohio Valley, where it was applied at first to the presumably unsophisticated inhabitants of Southern Indiana. Later it expanded to include all residents of the state and gradually lost its original, potent connotation of coarseness in manners, appearance and intellect."

"While 'hoosier' may still be heard in areas of the south in its original, disparaging meaning of 'uncouth rustic,' the term seems to be slowly loosing currency. One important pocket of linguistic resistance, however, remains. Thomas E. Murray carefully analyzed the use of 'hoosier' in St. Louis, Missouri, where it is the favorite epithet of abuse."

This is the source I'm familiar with in terms of the word's history. There's also this section, which I found interesting:

"Many have inquired into the origin of Hoosier. But by all odds the most serious student of the matter was Jacob Piatt Dunn, Jr., Indiana historian and longtime secretary of the IHS. Dunn noted that "hoosier" was frequently used in many parts of the South in the 19th century for woodsmen or rough hill people. He traced the word back to "hoozer," in the Cumberland dialect of England. This derives from the Anglo-Saxon word "hoo" meaning high or hill. In the Cumberland dialect, the world "hoozer" meant anything unusually large, presumably like a hill. It is not hard to see how this word was attached to a hill dweller or highlander. Immigrants from Cumberland, England, settled in the southern mountains (Cumberland Mountains, Cumberland River, Cumberland Gap, etc.). Their descendents brought the name with them when they settled in the hills of southern Indiana."

Arguably, St. Louis is the only place using the word correctly. My wife was horrified to discover this article on a recent road trip back to St. Louis, when she was inquiring about the local usage of the word and completely convinced she'd show what "uncouth rustics" St. Louisans are. It really backfired on her.

[bonwich]

This is the source I'm familiar with in terms of the word's history. There's also this section, which I found interesting:

"Many have inquired into the origin of Hoosier. But by all odds the most serious student of the matter was Jacob Piatt Dunn, Jr., Indiana historian and longtime secretary of the IHS. Dunn noted that "hoosier" was frequently used in many parts of the South in the 19th century for woodsmen or rough hill people. He traced the word back to "hoozer," in the Cumberland dialect of England. This derives from the Anglo-Saxon word "hoo" meaning high or hill. In the Cumberland dialect, the world "hoozer" meant anything unusually large, presumably like a hill. It is not hard to see how this word was attached to a hill dweller or highlander. Immigrants from Cumberland, England, settled in the southern mountains (Cumberland Mountains, Cumberland River, Cumberland Gap, etc.). Their descendents brought the name with them when they settled in the hills of southern Indiana."

Arguably, St. Louis is the only place using the word correctly. My wife was horrified to discover this article on a recent road trip back to St. Louis, when she was inquiring about the local usage of the word and completely convinced she'd show what "uncouth rustics" St. Louisans are. It really backfired on her.

Bah. Stupid scholars. Take off, eh? It obviously traces to the Anglo-Canadian word "hoser."

[ARon]

The country approach plays really well in STL (see Spoon, Whitey, et al). A little too well.

Country? Or Hack-y??

[bonwich]

Country? Or Hack-y??

The Hack-y approach plays really well in STL when we have A-10 refs.

[BigMouthBilliken]

The IU article on the subject claims it was originally sort of neutral or mildly derogatory before it became a badge of honor:

http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/internet/extra/hoosier.html

"The best evidence, however, suggests that 'Hoosier' was a term of contempt and opprobrium common in the upland South and used to denote a rustic, a bumpkin, a countryman, a roughneck, a hick or an awkward, uncouth or unskilled fellow. Although the word's derogatory meaning has faded, it can still be heard in its original sense, albeit less frequently than its cousins 'Cracker' and 'Redneck.'

From the South "Hoosier" moved north and westward with the people into the Ohio Valley, where it was applied at first to the presumably unsophisticated inhabitants of Southern Indiana. Later it expanded to include all residents of the state and gradually lost its original, potent connotation of coarseness in manners, appearance and intellect."

"While 'hoosier' may still be heard in areas of the south in its original, disparaging meaning of 'uncouth rustic,' the term seems to be slowly loosing currency. One important pocket of linguistic resistance, however, remains. Thomas E. Murray carefully analyzed the use of 'hoosier' in St. Louis, Missouri, where it is the favorite epithet of abuse."

The Indiana Crackers sounds better

[almaman]

great stuff all. i had no idea it was a st louis only thing.