slufanskip Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Just curious anyone have thoughts on Kline giving LaRussa the finger yesterday? Not much basketball going on so ... lets get some more Cardinal Talk going. If you were Walt ... would you be looking to trade anyone or who would you be trying to aquire and who would you give up? Anyone in the minors that you would bring up? in place of who? Any othe thoughts ... like Houston getting Beltran Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I think we should trade Scott Rollen for Placido Palanco.Placido got us in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I hope that we can beat the Flubs again tonight. I would like to see the Cardinals bring in a No. 1 starter if one is available at a reasonable price. I'm not sure that giving anyone like Thompson is what I would call reasonable. I pretty much like our lineup but would like it even better with an everyday LF, and there were some rumors about the Cards interested in Beltran. I don't know if we could solve both the No. 1 starter and LF thru trades. It will be interesting to see who is selling and who is buying in the next 3-4 weeks before the trade deadline is over. If the Astros aren't in the race then, no way, do I see them as buyers for a talent like Beltran. What do they have to give the Royals in young talent because that is what it will take. From the P-D account of last night it was not just Kline that was p!ssed at TLR last night. Apparently, Izzy did not like getting ready to pich the 9th when he was not used. I guess Tony got cold feet with Izzy blowing the previous night's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 guys Kline faced were lefties. Lost in all the hubub over the finger and Izzy's comments was the fact Larussa made a gutsy call to leave Kline in instead of his regular closer and it worked perfectly. If Kline had given up two runs all the Tony haters would be out in full force but nobody gives him credit when he makes the right call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Our outfield play last night was just awfull, Anderson and Luna are just too large a liability to play out there.We'll score enough runs to win most games.IMO Tony nedds to play his better defenders.Mabry and So Taguchi. Picking up a LF is my highest priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 John Gall 68 games 264 abs 48 runs 87 hits 16 doubles 19 homeruns 58 rbi 23 walks 34 k's .330 average we have our regular left fielder playing in memphis. and i seriously doubt he can be a worst outfielder than anderson or luna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 24, 2004 Author Share Posted June 24, 2004 I agree ... Gall or Taguchi would be starting for me in left ... probably Gall ... depending on his defense. It is too bad then I would start Taguchi and bat him 2nd. My order would be Womack Taguchi Pujols Rolen Edmonds Sanders Rentaria Matheny Pitching I think I would stand pat for a while ... as the deadline approaches ... I'd have to look for a real #1 guy if he is available ... I'd be willing to part with any of the organizations top minor league pitchers Wainright, Herren, Thompson plus either of the young catchers Yadi or Barton ... maybe 2 of them for the right guy ... but by the right guy I mean a real Ace ... Ben Sheets is the guy I really like ... but I don't know about his contract. I think we are an ace away ... Think of our lineup and bullpen with a rotation of Sheets, Carpenter, Marquis, Suppan and Morris or Williams. Probably Woody ... Morris I look to shop for a team looking for a guy to improve their rotation for the stretch run ... for some prospects. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluer Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Gall is defensive liability (a first baseman playing the outfield). I think you platoon So and Mabry in left. That's your best defense and good enough at the plate. Trying to find an outfielder better than those two will be far too expensive, playerwise. Rumor was that KC wanted Molina AND a top prospect for Beltran who of course can walk at the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Kline made a huge mistake fingering TL. Unfortunately, Kline is too dumb to know he made a mistake. I like Kline in his setup role, but I think both Kline and Izzy should just shutup and pitch when called upon......seventh, eighth, ninth inning, whatever! If John Gall has talent/value he will be traded. If nobody sees talent/value in Gall, he sits at Memphis. I would like to add one legitimate, quality defensive outfielder, who hits .250 to .265 so we can keep our extra infielders playing in the infield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 the dumbest athlete I've ever listened to (listening to him talk about the potential strike a few years ago as the Cardinals players representative was truly scary) but as long as he throws the ball well and hates the Cubs you've got to love him. Tony wants to win too bad for him to bench Kline if he feels Kline gives him the best chance to win. I suspect we'll see Kline pitch tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 no way gall can be worse than either luna or anderson have played defensively. and with gall you have a more imposing batter in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I would prefer not to have Gall, Luna or Andersen in the outfield. But at least Luna and Andersen can play other infield positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 25, 2004 Author Share Posted June 25, 2004 If Gall can't play defense ... I wouldn't mind seeing some more of So. Also we have Ray and Mabry. Thats why I don't understand why Luna or Anderson are ever in the outfield. Just heard the trade sending Beltran to Houston is complete. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I've already told K-Shoe and Willy this, but according to espn.com and Peter Gammons the Cards are interested in trading Brad Thompson for LF Frank Cattalanato of the Blue Jays. Cattalanato hits .327 but I am not sold on this trade at all. Better players will come along and I don't want to sell the farm for a slightly better than average player. Go Cards SShoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 in the second inning when he baited Sosa by acting as if he was going to catch the ball, perfectly played it off the wall and then threw him out at the plate was one of the most athletic defensive plays I have ever seen in baseball. It truly set the tone for the game. I was there last nite and the crowd buzzed the entire next half inning over that play. Well done, Jimmy. Now the way he constantly uppercuts the ball drives me crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Isn't Gammons about as accurate as John Hadley in his player movement predictions...no way would I make that deal. It would be nice to see the Cards give Gall a chance to show what he could do in LF. Do it before the deadline then they would know if they need a LF for the stretch run. Nice job beating the Flubs 2 of 3, if Izzy doesn't blow up in game 1 then it's a sweep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 25, 2004 Author Share Posted June 25, 2004 I would have to look a little longer at that trade ... there is a reason they haven't brought up Gall ... and it is probably that his defense is horrible. Thompson's value right now is huge ... how many AAA pitchers who don't throw hard but have great success at that level have we seen that do not have big league success ... does Bud Smith come to mind ... I am not that big on finess pitchers as so very, very few ever become big time major league pitchers. Right now is the time to trade Thompson ... if I get the chance to get any quality starting left fielder ... especially one with a high on base % and a decent glove ... I make the trade quickly. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Cattalanato would easily be the best left fielder on the team. plus he would give us excellent defense and some speed. heck he could probably be our leadoff hitter. i think i would make that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I think the best finese pitcher that I ever saw pitch for the Cardinals was John Tudor...he had a heckuva run during many of the Whitey years. The dude had pinpoint control in his hey days with the Cards. I don't really see the Cards retaining either Morris or Williams after this year so I am more apt to want to see what this Thompson can do in the Big Show before I just package him in a trade for a LF. I did see some folks tauting a deal for the Dbacks Steve Finley, and he would be an intriguing addition, as he is both a good batsman and fielder. I imagine he is in his mid 30's, if not older, so I would not want to mortgage too much of the future to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 It was a cool play and probably saved Carpenter's bacon last night as he was treading water early in the game and hanging a few breaking balls; however, Womack made the relay throw to the plate and they had the ball waiting for the hotdog SoSo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 25, 2004 Author Share Posted June 25, 2004 I think we need a high Avg and bat control guy to help set the table for Womack ... not a hopeful, but a proven commodity. Yes we can all pick out a pitcher who had a couple of good or great years who was a control guy, Greg Maddox ... but the majority do not become stars ... most don't ever become more than a servicable major league pitcher ... and the rosters of most major league teams are full of them at the middle and long relief roles. We have an abundanced of talent pitching in the minor leagues ... IMO you have to give to get ... and history is not on the side of Thompson becoming a star. I'm not saying he won't ... but I would give 2-1 today on a sizeable wager that says he does not win 125 major league games. Now ... if I was Walt and I thought there was a real good chance to acquire a #1 starter later this year ... I would save everyone and gamble on being able to do that ... as that might take two of our pitching prospects to get done ... and I wouldn't want to give up 3 or more. ... unless it was for the right ace ... that we could sign long term Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 as some of the other "Hector Luna" types we have put out there. I think the reason they haven't called him up is the same as why they weren't going to bring Molina up this year, they don't want him to start accruing major league time and get closer to free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 that is exactly what i have been thinking. fine if defense is the concern, i understand. but then dont be trotting out luna and anderson to play leftfield. if they were playing cedeno or maybry all the time, i accept the genius' answer, but they dont play. i also understand luna and anderson have value because they can play infield spots as well. let's not lose sight of the fact that gall would probably be the best fielding first baseman on the team immediately. thus he isnt just a below average fielding left fielder. if cedeno isnt going to play more, there is the player to switch out with. bring gall in and send cedeno out. the reason we dont though is all about money. keep gall down to hold off on his arbitration clock starting to tick and second cedeno probably has a ridiculous contract that cant be justified in memphis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 but I don't think this is truly a Tony decision. Since any decision to bring Gall or Molina up won't really hurt the Cards until 3 or 4 years down the line and most people believe Tony won't be here in 4 years I'm sure he'd rather have the best players here if he could. I think Jockety and the owners are making the call on these guys coming up and Larussa is playing the good soldier. But I like Tony so I'm probably reading too much into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 if matheny is healthy again and can play everyday, i would send molina back down in a second as well. that kid has hof potential and needs to be playing everyday plus, whatever they can do to retard his arbritration date is welcome. that said, and using your logic of big league service time wouldnt the decision to keep him up be tony's and not front office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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