kshoe Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I agree with the others who feel the markets are already covered. Just bc GMU and VCU are better than some of the current A10 doormats does not mean these 2 schools should be added. Now if the A10 wants to contact and replace 2 current doormats with them, then that's a different story. In short, being the big fish in your small pond gives you the chance each year to make a name for yourself. X dominated the old A10 and therefore got a chance to make the Tourney each year, and once there, made a name for themselves. Butler has now done this with the Horizon and become a "national name" team. Gonzaga has done the same. Now, the same can be said with GMU and VCU. The A10 can load up with teams former Tourney stars and Cinderellas but the NCAA will simply not stand for allowing 5 or 6 of these teams in each year - especially if the Colonial, Horizon, etc keep sending replacements/future Cinderellas. Frankly, the successful mid majors will do better staying in their smaller ponds. Otherwise, it's simple math. 3 or 4 teams out of 15 A10 teams will make the tourney (harder for SLU) giving rise to the next Butler to dominate the Horizon...., the next GMU to dominate the Colonial, etc. I'm a guy that believes there is a pretty big BCS bias out there but I guess I just don't buy that the A-10 or A-16 needs to be limited to only 3 or 4 NCAA tourney teams. If we bring in these three programs and they continue to do what they've done over the last ten years (recruit overlooked players well, do well in non-conference play and win their fair share in conference) they will add a lot of value to the A-10. If the perception becomes that A-10 truly is an elite conference and is often better than some/many of the BCS conferences (not just the best of the non-BCS) there is no reason to believe we can't get 5-6 teams in on a regular basis. Back to Roy's original post, I think the key conclusion is that depending on the ending number of teams 14, 15 or 16 there are divisional alignements and schedules that could make a ton of sense. If 14, keep it pretty much as is with a 16 game regular season If 15, split into 3 divisions, play your division twice and everyone else once for a total of 18 games. If 16, there are multiple ways to do it. If you want a 16 games schedule have no divisions and play only one rival team twice. If you want an 18 game schedule you have have 3 rival games. You could have 4 divisions to make it clear who you play twice or you could just have all 16, it really doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 i am encouraged by some of the activity of the A-10. no doubt, the likes of Butler, Creighton, Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason increase the profile of the conference. i wish some of our less serious programs would think about moving to a conference that is more in line with their level of committment (Facilites, Budget, and recent performance record) but that is something that has to be originated by them. the conference is not going to kick schools out. the more i think about the conference tourney the more excited i get. our tourney will be played in the best sports arena in the country. meanwhile the big east is playing in one of the most overhyped but aging and past it's prime arena in the country at the same time. there has obviously been a movement to get better by a number of programs over the last 5 years. and we continue to garner more ncaa spots than any non bcs conference year after year. at one time i was all about the a-10 being a bridge move to the prayed for papal conference, but now, i am not so sure. give me butler and creighton and a new schedule that lets us play all the midwest teams twice a year and i would be more than content in the a-10 for eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Has Creighton been offered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 i am encouraged by some of the activity of the A-10. no doubt, the likes of Butler, Creighton, Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason increase the profile of the conference. i wish some of our less serious programs would think about moving to a conference that is more in line with their level of committment (Facilites, Budget, and recent performance record) but that is something that has to be originated by them. the conference is not going to kick schools out. the more i think about the conference tourney the more excited i get. our tourney will be played in the best sports arena in the country. meanwhile the big east is playing in one of the most overhyped but aging and past it's prime arena in the country at the same time. there has obviously been a movement to get better by a number of programs over the last 5 years. and we continue to garner more ncaa spots than any non bcs conference year after year. at one time i was all about the a-10 being a bridge move to the prayed for papal conference, but now, i am not so sure. give me butler and creighton and a new schedule that lets us play all the midwest teams twice a year and i would be more than content in the a-10 for eternity. I share your enthusiams for much of the A-10 and agree that if somehow Creighton eventually joined this would become a pretty darn good fit for SLU in a lot of ways. Can't say I share the same enthusiasm for the conference tourney as I expect it will typically be played in a gorgeous new arena with 2,000 or so of our closest friends. It's the 20k+ fans that show up to MSG that make it the premiere conference tourney. I know from my perspective that while NYC is a preferable trip, if the Bills are good enough to dance I'll always wait to the NCAA tourney to take my vacation days, weekend trip, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Has Creighton been offered? Not to my knowledge. Just speculation so far. One of the reasons many feel that there is a possibility that Creighton could move to the A-10 is that the school's president came from St. Joe's. He has discussed it a little bit recently but has not gone very in depth publicly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU7881 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This is a lengthy but fair synposis of conference realignment of mids-majors by a UW-Milwaukee fan. Its a good read http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/c...-the-a10-moves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 -why does creighton want to leave the valley for the a-10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 -why does creighton want to leave the valley for the a-10? because the valley is the inferior conference and limits Creighton's ability to get to the tourney and maximize outside revenues. by joining the A-10 there not only is an immediate step up from the valley, but if the rumored other three schools are also moving to the A-10 the difference between the two conferences grows quite a bit. the valley falls and the A-10 gains. also, as a private jesuit school like slu, i am sure that creighton covets the same non-athletic advantages that slu garners by being a part of the A-10. More like minded institutions, and greater exposure in the eastern metro areas that their target students could come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 -why does creighton want to leave the valley for the a-10? I don't think we necessarily know that they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 "I'm a guy that believes there is a pretty big BCS bias out there but I guess I just don't buy that the A-10 or A-16 needs to be limited to only 3 or 4 NCAA tourney teams. If we bring in these three programs and they continue to do what they've done over the last ten years (recruit overlooked players well, do well in non-conference play and win their fair share in conference) they will add a lot of value to the A-10. If the perception becomes that A-10 truly is an elite conference and is often better than some/many of the BCS conferences (not just the best of the non-BCS) there is no reason to believe we can't get 5-6 teams in on a regular basis." Shoe. I hope you are right. It certainly play out that way. History, though, showed that when the non-BCS teams got "too many" teams in the Tourney (b/c of the new rpi) the BCS schools changed things immediately. If GMU and Butler joins the A10, and if the Colonial and Horizon keep sending a representative, then it becomes a fight between the non-BCS schools (including A10) and the BCS schools and I think I know how that will work out. Maybe further expansion (though I much prefer the 64 team format) of the Tourney is the answer. At the same time, it is hard to separate the benefits of making the Tourney from that of simply hard work, quality coaching and good/smart recruiting. I would say that RM has recruited much better than any other coach with the same record and with a lack of basketball winning tradition. Possibly the same with these other schools. Still, winning means so much much -- from name recognition, attitude, prestige, etc. to large amounts of cash generated from the Tourney to sustain this success and pay the bills (coaches' salaries, recruiting budgets, etc.). Coincidence or not. The best non-BCS schools have one thing in common: repeated trips to the NCAA Tourney. See X, Gonzaga, Butler... As to the BCS, I agree with your thoughts. Frankly, though, the BCS schools truly believe the popularity of the Tourney is the result of them - not the Cinderellas. IMO, they may be correct about the large majority of sports fans but the addition of the lesser conference champions greatly expands with fan base. Schools like Mizzou and Duke get bitter (after this past Tourney) saying the reason for the Tourney is them and yet they (the BCS schools) have in place a system which rewards and pays huge amounts to schools like Norfolk State. In fact, a single Tourney appearance can mean profitability for some schools' entire athletic department. Why keep funding the Cinderellas they say who then use the money to come back each year and pull off more upsets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 the more i think about the conference tourney the more excited i get. our tourney will be played in the best sports arena in the country. meanwhile the big east is playing in one of the most overhyped but aging and past it's prime arena in the country at the same time. While I am excited about the move to the Barclay's Center next year, MSG is in the middle of Manhattan and in the middle of a 3 year, nearly billion dollar renovation. I'd take MSG any day but we'll be top dog at the state of the art BC for a weekend and get a lot of additional pub as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Bill Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 This is a lengthy but fair synposis of conference realignment of mids-majors by a UW-Milwaukee fan. Its a good readhttp://www.brewcityb....-the-a10-movesYour link did not work for me, but this one does: http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?286-the-a10-moves I agree its a good read; looks at the A10 and SLU (appreciatively) from the outside. Creighton would be a "super SLU" addition to the A10 with respect to recent BB prowess. Above all, it starts off with stating Butler -> A10 as a fact. Would that it be so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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