Pistol Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I've seen this team play about as much as anyone else has so I wasn't making my comments blindly. My objection comes not when said when we our competing in spite of our athleticism but when people say we are competing in spite of our talent. That really frustrates me as I think this is a very talented team. Just so I understand, how do you deliniate between 'talent' and 'athleticism'? Is 'talent' more all-inclusive? Also, my rant wasn't against you in particular, just the athleticism argument as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 In all seriousness, I'm tired of the notion that SLU is competitive in spite of its athleticism. Have any of the people questioning SLU's athleticism actually watched the games? I never for a moment felt that SLU's players couldn't keep up with those of Oklahoma, Villanova, Boston College or the rest. OU and UW and teams like that have a few more huge dudes who can dunk and pass the eye test of athleticism (which is always loaded) but watching them actually play for 40 minutes, you'd have to be so purposefully ignorant to think SLU has been at a huge disadvantage athletically so far, trying to shoehorn us in a narrative that doesn't fit. McCall and Mitchell glide around the floor and find holes easier than any guards (except Wayns) we've seen so far. Jett looks like he could play in the NFL and has shown brilliant flashes this season, including almost hitting his forehead on the rim while swatting at shots. Conklin has outplayed every big from every team we've seen so far in nearly every facet of the game. Remekun is leading us in rebounds per minute and has had some really nice boards, blocks, and strong moves to the goal. I hear Ellis is a very good surfer. Evans has not nearly lived up to expectations so far but has still made plays that make me ask, "Whoa, was that Dwayne?" Every game I've seen this year, I'm impressed with how we match up with the 'incredible athletes' all our opponents put on the floor, and so far we've absolutely forced the tempo of the games. Unathletic teams don't do that, they try to win in spite of their disadvantage. Just watch our games again. We are as athletic as our opponents, or close to it, and will be more athletic than most of the A10 teams we'll face. Soderberg is 5 years gone now. The conversation should not be framed around athleticism, or our lack thereof, anymore. Excellent post. We've had a lot of them today. Billikens.com is really stepping up, just like our beloved Bills have on the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I just don't get what defines athleticism. Is a running back athletic but a middle linebacker isn't. After all the running back does run faster and probably jumps higher. Athleticism comes in different packages. Is MM more athletic than JJ? He's quicker and probably faster. I'd bet if you put all 7 footers give or take an inch in a gym RL would compare quite well in agility and quickness however not so well in strength. MM, JJ, and KM are all pretty athletic, but all in different ways Agreed. If you held some kind of athletic test of all D1 players who are RL's size, he would clearly be much better than average athletically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Agreed. If you held some kind of athletic test of all D1 players who are RL's size, he would clearly be much better than average athletically. Big time. I give a lot of room to grow for young bigs when it comes to 'athleticism'. Keep in mind Kenny Frease was a national top 10 center coming into college, choosing Xavier over ND and Kentucky. There is an absolute canyon between the top few bigs and the rest, and most take at least two full years to start to show their true potential. A lot of them grew really fast in HS, and it's not easy to adjust to size 18s when you're still a teenager. Loe moves around well on offense, runs the floor well in general, and has better endurance than any other young big I can think of off the top of my head. He shoots better than any other 7-footer, too. He's got a long way to go from a strength standpoint, but has shown a willingness to defend and rebound stronger this season. He comes from a country where basketball is down a few notches in terms of popularity and he never had to play a physical game. He's still young and does a lot of things other bigs will never do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Just so I understand, how do you deliniate between 'talent' and 'athleticism'? Is 'talent' more all-inclusive? Also, my rant wasn't against you in particular, just the athleticism argument as a whole. Maybe it's semantics but I think of athleticism as leaping ability, quickness, explosiveness and strength. When I think of talent I think of that combined with shooting, passing, ball-handling, instincts etc. Mississippi Valley St. might be more athletic than Duke even but Duke is clearly the better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slubilliken09 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The great thing is that even if we do not have as "athletic" a roster as other teams, we slow the pace of the game to a creep and limit shot opportunity. Look at the games so far! SLU has limited open looks and forced bad shot choices early in the shot clock, in addition to taking care of the ball and limiting turnovers. There have been very few fast break points scored by our opponents off of turnovers. The rebounding column certainly sticks out like a sore thumb, but I'm comfortable not having as great of "athletes" as other teams when we can get contributions from 8 or 9 guys. Just win, baby, win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Big time. I give a lot of room to grow for young bigs when it comes to 'athleticism'. Keep in mind Kenny Frease was a national top 10 center coming into college, choosing Xavier over ND and Kentucky. There is an absolute canyon between the top few bigs and the rest, and most take at least two full years to start to show their true potential. A lot of them grew really fast in HS, and it's not easy to adjust to size 18s when you're still a teenager. Loe moves around well on offense, runs the floor well in general, and has better endurance than any other young big I can think of off the top of my head. He shoots better than any other 7-footer, too. He's got a long way to go from a strength standpoint, but has shown a willingness to defend and rebound stronger this season. He comes from a country where basketball is down a few notches in terms of popularity and he never had to play a physical game. He's still young and does a lot of things other bigs will never do well. Loe and Ellis are both talented, gifted, and have great BB bodies but are young and just finding themselves; it takes athleticism to hit a three running away from the basket as CE always has and Loe picked a bad low pass easily 99 percent of guys 6' 11" or more wouldn't have reacted more than a flinch. When Conklin leaves we are going to have a scramble for minutes between our bigs I like every one of them better this year. I can't wait until John Manning gets over that timid ness that afflicted CR the past two years but seems to be fading away. There is a reason RM is still recruiting shooting guards and only takes on 1 or 2 project bigs when spots open up. Could imagine training giraffes to jump through hoops? They are big, strong, muscular, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 +1 Billikan. We are watching basketball like it was meant to be played. There isn't a player on our team who's not improved from last year and some made leaps forward in these last 3 days. Most notably Loe (played stronger by the OK game) and Remekun ( who knew his role and played it to perfection). this is my nomination for post of the day. i hadnt thought of it, but i totally agree. this is real basketball. not the nba nonsense that most of the big boys throw out there. unselfish heady play on both ends of the floor. btw, twice last night i saw loe pick up loose balls that turned into baskets. i guarantee you that big lumux (sp?) that washington had in the post that the announcers of that game were touting as the next great center, would have never picked that ball up. one other point that i havent given kudos to today in any of my posts, while i am thrilled cody ellis has found his lost shot, i am more thrilled that cody ellis has somehow been depussified. the man is playing his position by hitting the boards hard, taking charges setting killer picks and going to the basket. it took him a year to get the message, but that stuff without the ball got him more PT than any great shooting stretch. cody isnt back, this is a new cody. and i like the new cody far better than the previous two versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 this is my nomination for post of the day. i hadnt thought of it, but i totally agree. this is real basketball. not the nba nonsense that most of the big boys throw out there. unselfish heady play on both ends of the floor. btw, twice last night i saw loe pick up loose balls that turned into baskets. i guarantee you that big lumux (sp?) that washington had in the post that the announcers of that game were touting as the next great center, would have never picked that ball up. one other point that i havent given kudos to today in any of my posts, while i am thrilled cody ellis has found his lost shot, i am more thrilled that cody ellis has somehow been depussified. the man is playing his position by hitting the boards hard, taking charges setting killer picks and going to the basket. it took him a year to get the message, but that stuff without the ball got him more PT than any great shooting stretch. cody isnt back, this is a new cody. and i like the new cody far better than the previous two versions. I think RM sent Cody that message last season by completely benching him for the Portland game. Back then, he wanted Cody to start working on these aspects of his game, not just sitting behind the arc and hitting 3 pointers. Thankfully, Cody has truly bought into RM's system and message and is going out there and playing aggressively on both ends of the floor. He is a much more well-rounded player than the one who walked off that plane nearly 2 years ago. I am with you, I like this Cody a WHOLE lot more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Maybe it's semantics but I think of athleticism as leaping ability, quickness, explosiveness and strength. When I think of talent I think of that combined with shooting, passing, ball-handling, instincts etc. Mississippi Valley St. might be more athletic than Duke even but Duke is clearly the better team. -not wanting to get into a pissing match, too good a day for all Billikens for that -but i have to ask how much have you seen of the delta devils this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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