Jalensdad2002 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 This game had the feel of East St Louis vs Vashon, and not just because Dwayne Polk was in attendance. No team was up by more than double figures in this game. Tommie Liddell was beautiful. I cannot begin to describe the fluid movement of this player. He handles were magnificent, he took whomever Carbondale threw at him. In the first quarter Tommie Liddell put up 11 of his teams 20 points on a variety of movements. Pull up jumpers, drives to the baskets, fall away jumpshots. Carbondale had the reputation of a running team, East Side was beating them at their game when Coach Brooks decided to start the 2nd Quarter with a delay game. Big mistake, the Flyers lost their edge and went in the half up only 1. Tommie Liddell had a nice game must have finished with 27 points. I don't think any other Flyer had double figures. I believe I owe Mr Liddell an apology as to my critique of his play. When he is going off like this his teammates have a tendency to watch. I believe that is why he tends to really try to get his teammates involved. At the next level he will be surrounded by better players. If he qualifies the person who will benefit from his play the most I think is Tom Frericks. He is an excellent passer and finisher. I know B-Roy won't agree with this but I cannot see 2 players in Illinois being better than Liddell. Right now he is a better scorer and defender than Shaun Livingston. Hands down. Livingston is a potential lottery pick. If Tommie qualifies SLU has an at-large bid to the NCAA's. Things are really looking up for SLU. At tonight's game there was not an empty seat. If SLU market Tommie Liddell, Dwayne Polk, and Luke Meyer the new gym will be the hottest tickets in town. Getting back to the game Carbondale was up by about 7 with maybe 1:30 remaining Tommie Liddell scored a quick 4 points followed by 3 from Howliett to tie the game. Everyone in attendance knew that Liddell was taking the last shot. Carbondale had two defenders on him when he somehow split the defense with an incredible dribble. The third player Lawrence Blackledge who is about 6'7 stepped in front of Liddell, Tommie using his body control got the shot on the backboard after making contact with Blackledge. No foul was called, a loose ball ensued, Justin Dentmon retrieved it and streaked down the court. Mark Howlett gave chase and made what look to be a clean swipe at the ball. The referee call Howlett for the foul. Dentmon went to the line and made 2 free throws. Game Over. After the game I vainly attempted to console Liddell. For all those who questioned his love for the game, this is the moment you all should have seen. He was in tears still wearing his Flyers uniform for the last time. I'm about 6'2 245lbs and it took all I had not to cry. This young man in my opinion epitomizes all that is right with high school athletics. I can't wait for him to suit up for SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamontcranston Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Please let's get this kid eligible!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 My same exact sentiments too. Tommie now that your season is over...do yourself a HUGE favor and put the full court press on getting your grades and entrance test in order...we need you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 The only person questioning Tommie was a bitter Mizzou fan. SLU fans can't wait to see him. I saw him play against Vashon and was very impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 he's eventually coming even if he goes prep, right? I read where he had applied to Brewster Prep in NH. Man, that puts him square in the sights of big east schools and the ACC. Makes me shudder just to think about him going elsewhere. Assurance...assurance....needed. I'd love him to qualify but would also be willing to wait a year especially if Lisch comes. They get 4 years to wreak some havoc on the college hoops world. It's good that Polk and he are close...that leads me to believe he'll be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 but read that he took the last shot. That's all I wanted to see. It's his senior year. He's by far the most talented player on the team and it was good to see him control the destiny of his team. It's good to see him get emotional. Shows that he might actually care. Good luck to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 that puts >him square in the sights of big east schools and the ACC. >Makes me shudder just to think about him going elsewhere. It's good that Polk and he are close...that >leads me to believe he'll be back. Again SLU and Liddell is a done deal. When SLU was debating between the A-10 and MVC it was up in the air. When SLU accepted the A-10 I suggested he sign with SLU. The A-10 would offer exposure to the media out East, without him having to attend an eastern school. Liddell is extremely close to his family. The only other school that he seriously considered was U of I. Coach Self like Soderberg was writing Liddell handwritten letters. When Self switched jobs I believe Liddell became lost in the shuffle. Liddell never received that much attention from Weber when he was at Carbondale. This coaching change put SLU ahead of all others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thanks for the TM update Jalensdad. All the SLU faithful pray that Tommie qualifies to play at SLU next year; however, should fate require him to go to prep school for a year, I'm sure there shall be a slot waiting for him in 2005. One year is not an eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 AJ, you should worry about your dogs who play for Mizzou and don't care. What a bunch of losers. Tommie will thrive at the college level, because his unselfish play being surrounded by much better players will be an asset. Your guy Jimmy McKinney can't hold Tommie's jock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I would think that with TL and DP being close friends ... that will help seal the deal ... plus with Dp being a smart kid ... he wont let TL forget that he is the guy DP wants finishing those breaks with monster dunks. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Because it's not based on a whole lot quite yet. Jimmy McKinney has proven himself to be a valuable role player at a d-1 level, whereas Liddell hasn't done anything. Don't count your chickens before they've hatched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Is Jimmy Mac better than Larry Hughes yet? I must've missed something. AJ??????? Anybody????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 on judging high school seniors before they've made an impact at the collegiate level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 making idiot comparisions when you've never seen both players play. I'm not dissing Jimmy as I surely thought he'd look good in Billiken Blue but at this point he'd be stealing Darren Clark's pt not Reggie's or Sloan's or Fish's. I hope the Liddell/Hughes comparisons are more accurate but never having seen both of them play in highschool, I'm smart enough to shut the hell up and listen to knowledgable posters like PDiddy and Jalensdad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Bob Steiner of DeSmet compared McKinney's game to Jo Jo White. Stop acting like I'm the only person who predicted great success for this young man. As Teseugnekillib pointed out, I might not be the most objective observer since I'm a huge Vashon fan. However, I'm not worried about McKinney. He's an overall good person with strong character and he'll succeed in life on and off the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 >Bob Steiner of DeSmet compared McKinney's game to Jo Jo >White. Stop acting like I'm the only person who predicted >great success for this young man. > >As Teseugnekillib pointed out, I might not be the most >objective observer since I'm a huge Vashon fan. However, >I'm not worried about McKinney. He's an overall good person >with strong character and he'll succeed in life on and off >the court. Who cares about Steiner. McKinney was a decent player, but Larry Hughes was a McDonald's All-American. It was and is a ridiculous comparison. I'm sure Jimmy's a good kid and all that, but it has nothing to do with the comparison. Marque is a good kid too and McKinney can't hold his jock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecCenterRat Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Jimmy McKinney is a second year player .. 9.4 ppg 3.2 asissts 40% fg 34% from Three 2.3 turnovers per game 85% free throw Marque Perry Second Year 10.0 ppg 3.4 assists 42% fg 32% from Three 2.6 turnovers per game 76% free throw YEAH! You're right .. Yeah .. Jimmy McKinney can't hold his jock! I think Marque's extra 2 years on Jimmy has clouded your memory .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbill Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 while i agree that bob steiner's comparison was a choke i don't think its fair to write off jimmy mckinney just yet. if he was at slu he would be starting. the lineup would be fish, reggie, mckinney, sloan, frericks. that would be pretty sweet to see. he would not be eating darren clarke's minutes. he's playing out of position at mizzou, so you haven't seen him shine yet. but i think he could have been a very valuable asset to this billiken team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 >Jimmy McKinney is a second year player .. > >9.4 ppg >3.2 asissts >40% fg >34% from Three >2.3 turnovers per game >85% free throw > >Marque Perry Second Year > >10.0 ppg >3.4 assists >42% fg >32% from Three >2.6 turnovers per game >76% free throw > > >YEAH! You're right .. Yeah .. Jimmy McKinney can't hold his >jock! > >I think Marque's extra 2 years on Jimmy has clouded your >memory .. > > Take it up with AJ. He's the one who originally said Marque couldn't hold McKinney's jock. Now that's stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthington Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Aside from statistics, realistically, what is one's hunch as to how the 2 compare. Not to take anything away from Jimmy McKinney, but as it stands, you'll see Perry playing in the NBA. I'm not so sure you could say the same for McKinney. I could be wrong but my gut favors Perry to be a better player when their basketball careers are said and done. Of course, I could be wrong, but it's a safe bet to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecCenterRat Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Do you guys think that Marque will make the NBA sometime soon? He's having an MVP type year in the NBDL .. but Someone should have picked him up by now .. every other top 10 player in the NBDL has been signed to at least one "10 day" NBA contract .. Marque hasn't ..??? I thought that the Bulls would think about signing him to a 10 day contract .. they just released Rick Brunson .. only to sign Jannero Pargo .. they passed over the local boy .. for another local (pargo) .. For some reason Marque is way down on the pickings list .. his size must be in question, shot? .. but there is no reason he couldn't back up Kirk Hinrich .. If no bottom feeder gives him a shot this year, do you guys think he'll still eventually slip in. Why isn't Marque playing EuroBall? .. he'd probably be making 100,000 grand somewhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I thought he'd be picked up by now. It just goes to show you how hard it is to make it to the NBA, especially with the influx of Europeans. Perry's game really elevated during his senior year. He had a good career for SLU, but was outstanding in the clutch during the last half of his senior season. Without his exploits, SLU would have been 7-9 or worse last year. The only thing I can think of, other than long range shooting ability, is that he has too many turnovers. He was hampered in Brad's system because he didn't play the point or run the offense. It also didn't help that he was never blessed with many quality post players, so it's not like he's had a wealth of experience running an offense. In fact, his 3-pt percentage of 36% is not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 AJ If you believe that Perry was hampered in the SLU system, you, as a Missouri fan, must be outraged that Snyder appears to have taken two first round picks (Johnson and Paulding) out of the NBA draft with inept coaching. I would think that any recruit would have to look very seriously at the manner in which they were hurt this year under Snyder, particularly after extending their eligibility for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 by playing an extra year. He established a little more range on his jumper. Improved his free throw shooting and remains a solid post defender. I never saw AJ as a first rounder and I believe that's why he came back for his senior year. Right now, I'd say he might sneak late into the first round. I also think he persuaded Paulding to come back. As for Paulding, his inconsistent play will probably see his draft status fall from late 1st round to second round. Quite frankly, I think Conley and Kleiza will end up being higher draft picks than either. Quin does not know how get his teams to play as a cohesive unit. However, he excels in developing the talent of players. Paulding still has a high level of skill with his ability to explode off the dribble, good shooting touch, and good defensive ability. He just is sorely lacking as a ballhandler. In fact, I have thought Travon Bryant would have the most success in the NBA over both AJ and Paulding. However, his lack of assertiveness and inability to finish inside has me thinking he needs a little more seasoning. As for Perry's fit into Brad's system, I just meant that playing off guard and not point guard hurt him. It's a shame that Perry didn't redshirt, so that he could have teamed up with Reggie Bryant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Tom Izzo thought of Johnson as a very high pick during his exposure to him last summer. I see Johson as having slipped back from that level during his last season with Snyder. I assume that your statement about Bryant is in agreement with my assessment that his exposure to Snyder did not benefit him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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