What's wrong with mid-range jumpers?

[Bylls]

Long time reader, first time poster. Love the way this team is progressing ... over the next couple of years high end potential like I can't remember. But I have a question ..... While watching the Charlotte game a couple of mid range jumpers by Cody really caught my attention. Nice movement, good flow, nice smooth shots. What I realized is that these sorts shots are few and far between. Of course going inside is essential, you'd always prefer a lay up when you can get it, and three's are an important part of today's game but what about some basic 15 foot j's? They just don't seem to be a central part of our game.

So help me understand this. Am I missing something? We don't seem to really look for them. Are they not an essential part of Rick's approach ... or is the issue that we just don't have the shooters? How much better would we be if Willie, Jon or even Brian could regularly hit this sort of shot. Even our guards don't seem to look for it ... maybe Christian, could drive, stop & pop rather always settling for those line drive 3's. I thought 15 footers were an integral part of Femi's hs game. With Kyle's shot looks like it should be his staple.

Last question ... can you really learn to shoot a j, or is it an athletic skill that some players have and others just don't.

Go Bills!

[milwaukeebill]

the basic problem with shooting a 15-18 foot jumper, while it is probably the most open shot on most defenses, is that it provides very little return value. lets say your best shooter hits those shots at 45% which is pretty good in college basketball. You get 90 points for every 100 shots he takes. lets say your best 3 point shooter is shooting at the bills currently clip...about 32%. for every 100 shots our bills take they score 96 points on 3 pointers. that is the basic reason the mid-range game has fallen out of favor and there are very few mid-range specialists left. also you look at our bigs. willie is shooting 55%...so he scores about 110 points per 100 shots. ideally youd love willies percentage plus about a 35-38% from 3 point land. so about 105-115 points per 100 shots.

[milwaukeebill]

i do agree that if willie and conklin could hit those shots somewhat consistently it would let them pull their defender out and open up cuts/passing lanes for other players

[billiken_roy]

pitino says you either shoot layups and dunks or shoot 3's. any shot inbetween is a bad shot.

milwaukee proves the point brilliantly in a previous thread.

[thetorch]

Majerus discussed this at the last Billiken Club meeting.

When they put down the 3 point line, kids immediately went to it. I know I did. Majerus was complementing European clubs which outlaw the 3 point line until a certain age so their kids learn how to shoot. The Euros have developed some of the better shooters in the game now and their youngsters are even better. American kids are not adept at it anymore.

Mid range jumpers like the bank shot are a thing of the past. The best mid range jump shooters in the NBA now are big men who have lost their athleticism and want a respite from banging in the post, think Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing. Guards don't take that shot on any level anymore.

There are complicated stats that say the mid range is useless now. While a guy who shoots an 18 footer for 45% and 3 for 35% may be better off shooting the three, the loss of the mid range shot has allowed defenses to focus on a smaller amount of variables. The rise of the 3 point shot in the 80s in the NBA directly led to the boring plodding games of the 90s that persist till this day. The slash and kick is supposed to ahve replaced the mid range game but it hasn't proven to be as effective.

[Clock_Tower]

Long time reader, first time poster. Love the way this team is progressing ... over the next couple of years high end potential like I can't remember. But I have a question ..... While watching the Charlotte game a couple of mid range jumpers by Cody really caught my attention. Nice movement, good flow, nice smooth shots. What I realized is that these sorts shots are few and far between. Of course going inside is essential, you'd always prefer a lay up when you can get it, and three's are an important part of today's game but what about some basic 15 foot j's? They just don't seem to be a central part of our game.

So help me understand this. Am I missing something? We don't seem to really look for them. Are they not an essential part of Rick's approach ... or is the issue that we just don't have the shooters? How much better would we be if Willie, Jon or even Brian could regularly hit this sort of shot. Even our guards don't seem to look for it ... maybe Christian, could drive, stop & pop rather always settling for those line drive 3's. I thought 15 footers were an integral part of Femi's hs game. With Kyle's shot looks like it should be his staple.

Last question ... can you really learn to shoot a j, or is it an athletic skill that some players have and others just don't.

Go Bills!

Welcome. Keep the posts coming.

Two comments: 1. TL, after his not so good shooting Freshman year, that you CAN develop a mid-range shot over the summer. 2. I personally believe that too many kids play games but don't practice. Clearly, the evidence and studies suggest that fundamentals are down in the U.S. but appear to be alive and well overseas. Frankly, I think too many kids play AAU ball and spend their time traveling and practicing their dunks but find litle time for the mid-level shot which, of course, includes the free throw shot. Add to this the fact that too many kids receive inferior coaching prior to colleger and you'll find many kids that don't truly develop their shot and fundamentals until college. Just my thoughts.

[brianstl]

the loss of the mid range shot has allowed defenses to focus on a smaller amount of variables.

Nails it.

For teams like SLU mid range jump shooting is a huge key if we are ever going to make a run in the NCAA.

When you have the best athletes and skill at every spot on the floor like Pitino you can get away with layups, dunks, and shooting 3s. You have the horses to play that style. When you are a program like SLU you have to play great team defense and have the ability to not only hit 3s but also mid range jumpers to force superior athletes to play defense all over the floor.

[Cowboy]

Nails it.

For teams like SLU mid range jump shooting is a huge key if we are ever going to make a run in the NCAA.

When you have the best athletes and skill at every spot on the floor like Pitino you can get away with layups, dunks, and shooting 3s. You have the horses to play that style. When you are a program like SLU you have to play great team defense and have the ability to not only hit 3s but also mid range jumpers to force superior athletes to play defense all over the floor.

-i agree with brian

-our offense provides many open 10-15 ft shots, we are now taking more of them, when we start making more of them all the other aspects of the offense will be more available as well

-next year....let's say John Smif starts hitting 15ft jumpers on a consistent basis, he has to be guarded there taking a defender out of the post freeing Willie to go one on one adn with the improvement in strenght and conditioning and shooting Willie will eat 32 out of 36 of these guys alive and do very well against the other 4, put that with the other improvements/progession on the team and we celebrate our asses off in houston

[NH]

Majerus discussed this at the last Billiken Club meeting.

When they put down the 3 point line, kids immediately went to it. I know I did. Majerus was complementing European clubs which outlaw the 3 point line until a certain age so their kids learn how to shoot. The Euros have developed some of the better shooters in the game now and their youngsters are even better. American kids are not adept at it anymore.

Stephen Curry was not allowed to shoot outside the paint until he developed proper form. One of the best shooters I know says he developed his form by not shooting threes till high school. The three point line does screw up a lot of kids forms.

Also, the mid range jumper is a vital part of any good offensive players arsenal. Look at the charlotte game for instance, Kwamain Mitchell had to sag off of Dijuan Harris in order to respect his driving ability and Harris hit a mid range J. If Harris didn't shoot midrange jumpers, SLU might win that game.

[Taj79]

I hav ebeen saying for years that the skills part of the game has left the USA. The Europeans seem to have much more complete teams and players. Vouyoukous and Ellis can shoot the three and they are 6'8". Guys like Chris Wright, Jason Maxiell, Kenyon Martin, Michael Beasley and Willie Reed have to find a game to ten feet and beyond. Why? I blame it on the ESPN highlight reel.

If you ain't posterizing someone or raining threes or doing the dipsy-doo-behind-the-back-crossover-ankle-breaking pass, you aren't on there. So the skills get lost. The game becomes power -- who can face whom? Manhood gets questioned. Finger wagging and trash talking sets in. In the meantime, the world is beating the USA at its own game because they have developed more of the fundamentals.

Skill won't overcome size and strength all the time, but enough times. For the Bills to be a complete team and a better program, Rick has to find guys who play their roles and develop complimentary skills. No one on this team has shown me the ability to hit a jumper with any consistency. We don't have enough skill people. Cassity would be a better floor player with one more shooting option. Same with Kwamain as a point. Willie got Ellis and Smith is coming on and look what that opens in the middle. Its pieces that make up the whole.

[p diddy]

I hav ebeen saying for years that the skills part of the game has left the USA. The Europeans seem to have much more complete teams and players. Vouyoukous and Ellis can shoot the three and they are 6'8". Guys like Chris Wright, Jason Maxiell, Kenyon Martin, Michael Beasley and Willie Reed have to find a game to ten feet and beyond. Why? I blame it on the ESPN highlight reel.

If you ain't posterizing someone or raining threes or doing the dipsy-doo-behind-the-back-crossover-ankle-breaking pass, you aren't on there. So the skills get lost. The game becomes power -- who can face whom? Manhood gets questioned. Finger wagging and trash talking sets in. In the meantime, the world is beating the USA at its own game because they have developed more of the fundamentals.

Skill won't overcome size and strength all the time, but enough times. For the Bills to be a complete team and a better program, Rick has to find guys who play their roles and develop complimentary skills. No one on this team has shown me the ability to hit a jumper with any consistency. We don't have enough skill people. Cassity would be a better floor player with one more shooting option. Same with Kwamain as a point. Willie got Ellis and Smith is coming on and look what that opens in the middle. Its pieces that make up the whole.

The last time I checked, the USA kicked the world in the backside, but good in Vegas and the qualifying tournament in Vegas and the Olympics in China. The only close game I remember was the gold medal game against China. All of the other games, the world was nothing but roadkill for the Americans.

Before 2008, we had a serious problem. But, Jerry Colangelo seemed to solve that problem two years.