Definition of Program

[Taj79]

What exactly does everyone on this board want from the St. Louis University basketball program? I thought that I was in the majority thought pattern here --- that I wanted a program that competed seven or eight out of every ten years, for a spot in the post season. I always considered that post season to be March Madness and saw the NIT as the typical failure as in Not In Tournament. Now, given the level of play and the limits of NCAA bids, with almost all open bids going to BCS-league teams, I am more willing to accept the NIT bid as more success than failure. I am, however, still some higher-than-thou United Nations wannabee and do not formally recognize the CBA or CBI or whatever they are as legit. I also believe that it takes time to build anything, longer for an item from scratch, which I have said is the plight of our never-was program. Others seem to espouse to the ten-second sound bite method of immediate gratification. Giving a guy a million dollars means success is due yesterday.

I get the feeling that there are folks out there, roy included, who have this black and white view of success. I don't know what that is but apparently roy includes the need to have a saint or benevolent father figure at the top of this program as well. Not roy's words, mine. Not only do I want to watch Selection Sunday with SLU being relevant, I want a clean program (nothing major in terms of overt violations recognizing a 500+ page rulebook), kids to be successful, nice graduation rates, few if any criminal instances, on-campus packed house, and so on.

I am guessing that most will agree that that too is what they want. Maybe the real question is how to get there? It appears to me that Majerus is a polarizing figure. I just don't think we have an option to go a much different route. I cna't complain with Rick's success --- while two year win totals are not huge, he has replaced what he was left with and is now stocking his own supplies. With that stock comes more accountability. So I intend to watch the progress now with less of a perchant to cut breaks.

Thoughts.

[slu72]

I am guessing that most will agree that that too is what they want. Maybe the real question is how to get there? It appears to me that Majerus is a polarizing figure. I just don't think we have an option to go a much different route. I cna't complain with Rick's success --- while two year win totals are not huge, he has replaced what he was left with and is now stocking his own supplies. With that stock comes more accountability. So I intend to watch the progress now with less of a perchant to cut breaks.

Thoughts.

With the hiring of RM and the funding of the new arean, Fr. B and others wanted SLU to be the next GZ and X. If them, why not us? Our resources are greater and they've seen the light, at last, that a good hoops program has a trickle down effect to other aspects of the university, ie more apps, higher entrance requirements, greater alum donations. Now how do you become a GZ or an X is the trick. Look at the extremes The Mizzery route under Q. Break just about every rule in the book to land top rated recruits and then get nailed. Hire a saint, insert the name Soderberg, and spin your wheels. Just as an aside, anyone who thought UB's 20 win season was the beginning of a turnaround is seriously delusional. So, we hire an RM, who so far has not proven himself to be a Q or a Kel the Cell type. He's different though. A character who can be abrasive on one hand and a warm fuzzy puppy on the other. Did we really expect he would go out and bring in a bunch of JUCO's or 4- 5 star types in devious fashion. I'd bet that ground was covered in his interview, eg. Fr. B- "We want to win, but we're not going to jail to do it." I doubt RM's going to get us locked up. He's also realistic enough to know there wasn't a quick fix for SLU. He's also realistic enough to know had he kept UB's recruits around the process would have taken much longer. I've no problem with that, but some do. Yeah, he's a polarizing guy... so's Bobby Knight... so's John Calipari.... and on and on and on. Was he the best hire for SLU? Who can tell at this point? We can only hope he develops his players and eventually take us to the promised land, fulfills his contract, and leaves us with a guy who will continue his expected good deeds. Remember, as Broy used to say back in the Sodie years, hey it took Coach K three years at Duke to turn it around. He doesn't use this argument to defend RM, and much to my dismay basically backed up Mr. Scott's assessment 100%, because he just doesn't like the man. You don't have to like him, but as a Bills fan he does deserve the same consideration you gave UB.

[lefty]

With the hiring of RM and the funding of the new arean, Fr. B and others wanted SLU to be the next GZ and X. If them, why not us? Our resources are greater and they've seen the light, at last, that a good hoops program has a trickle down effect to other aspects of the university, ie more apps, higher entrance requirements, greater alum donations. Now how do you become a GZ or an X is the trick. Look at the extremes The Mizzery route under Q. Break just about every rule in the book to land top rated recruits and then get nailed. Hire a saint, insert the name Soderberg, and spin your wheels. Just as an aside, anyone who thought UB's 20 win season was the beginning of a turnaround is seriously delusional. So, we hire an RM, who so far has not proven himself to be a Q or a Kel the Cell type. He's different though. A character who can be abrasive on one hand and a warm fuzzy puppy on the other. Did we really expect he would go out and bring in a bunch of JUCO's or 4- 5 star types in devious fashion. I'd bet that ground was covered in his interview, eg. Fr. B- "We want to win, but we're not going to jail to do it." I doubt RM's going to get us locked up. He's also realistic enough to know there wasn't a quick fix for SLU. He's also realistic enough to know had he kept UB's recruits around the process would have taken much longer. I've no problem with that, but some do. Yeah, he's a polarizing guy... so's Bobby Knight... so's John Calipari.... and on and on and on. Was he the best hire for SLU? Who can tell at this point? We can only hope he develops his players and eventually take us to the promised land, fulfills his contract, and leaves us with a guy who will continue his expected good deeds. Remember, as Broy used to say back in the Sodie years, hey it took Coach K three years at Duke to turn it around. He doesn't use this argument to defend RM, and much to my dismay basically backed up Mr. Scott's assessment 100%, because he just doesn't like the man. You don't have to like him, but as a Bills fan he does deserve the same consideration you gave UB.

AS far as bringing in players in devious fashion, you might want to do so some research on his time at Ball State.

[slufanskip]

AS far as bringing in players in devious fashion, you might want to do so some research on his time at Ball State.

why don't you clue us in on the players he brought in over 20 years ago

[brianstl]

AS far as bringing in players in devious fashion, you might want to do so some research on his time at Ball State.

You want to share some of this stuff and maybe give a link to back it up?

Here is Rick Reilly's take on Rickma's terrible violations at Utah.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/

[Major Majerus]

You want to share some of this stuff and maybe give a link to back it up?

Here is Rick Reilly's take on Rickma's terrible violations at Utah.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/

And all that was public knowledge. How could Biondo, in good faith, bring in a guy like that? If you liked that article, read Norm Stewart's book about his run-in with the feds..oops, I mean nc2a...

[SLUMS81]

What exactly does everyone on this board want from the St. Louis University basketball program? I thought that I was in the majority thought pattern here --- that I wanted a program that competed seven or eight out of every ten years, for a spot in the post season. I always considered that post season to be March Madness and saw the NIT as the typical failure as in Not In Tournament. Now, given the level of play and the limits of NCAA bids, with almost all open bids going to BCS-league teams, I am more willing to accept the NIT bid as more success than failure. I am, however, still some higher-than-thou United Nations wannabee and do not formally recognize the CBA or CBI or whatever they are as legit. I also believe that it takes time to build anything, longer for an item from scratch, which I have said is the plight of our never-was program. Others seem to espouse to the ten-second sound bite method of immediate gratification. Giving a guy a million dollars means success is due yesterday.

I get the feeling that there are folks out there, roy included, who have this black and white view of success. I don't know what that is but apparently roy includes the need to have a saint or benevolent father figure at the top of this program as well. Not roy's words, mine. Not only do I want to watch Selection Sunday with SLU being relevant, I want a clean program (nothing major in terms of overt violations recognizing a 500+ page rulebook), kids to be successful, nice graduation rates, few if any criminal instances, on-campus packed house, and so on.

I am guessing that most will agree that that too is what they want. Maybe the real question is how to get there? It appears to me that Majerus is a polarizing figure. I just don't think we have an option to go a much different route. I cna't complain with Rick's success --- while two year win totals are not huge, he has replaced what he was left with and is now stocking his own supplies. With that stock comes more accountability. So I intend to watch the progress now with less of a perchant to cut breaks.

Thoughts.

[SLUMS81]

What exactly does everyone on this board want from the St. Louis University basketball program? I thought that I was in the majority thought pattern here --- that I wanted a program that competed seven or eight out of every ten years, for a spot in the post season. I always considered that post season to be March Madness and saw the NIT as the typical failure as in Not In Tournament. Now, given the level of play and the limits of NCAA bids, with almost all open bids going to BCS-league teams, I am more willing to accept the NIT bid as more success than failure. I am, however, still some higher-than-thou United Nations wannabee and do not formally recognize the CBA or CBI or whatever they are as legit. I also believe that it takes time to build anything, longer for an item from scratch, which I have said is the plight of our never-was program. Others seem to espouse to the ten-second sound bite method of immediate gratification. Giving a guy a million dollars means success is due yesterday.

I get the feeling that there are folks out there, roy included, who have this black and white view of success. I don't know what that is but apparently roy includes the need to have a saint or benevolent father figure at the top of this program as well. Not roy's words, mine. Not only do I want to watch Selection Sunday with SLU being relevant, I want a clean program (nothing major in terms of overt violations recognizing a 500+ page rulebook), kids to be successful, nice graduation rates, few if any criminal instances, on-campus packed house, and so on.

I am guessing that most will agree that that too is what they want. Maybe the real question is how to get there? It appears to me that Majerus is a polarizing figure. I just don't think we have an option to go a much different route. I cna't complain with Rick's success --- while two year win totals are not huge, he has replaced what he was left with and is now stocking his own supplies. With that stock comes more accountability. So I intend to watch the progress now with less of a perchant to cut breaks.

Thoughts.

[kevinfootes]

What exactly does everyone on this board want from the St. Louis University basketball program? I thought that I was in the majority thought pattern here --- that I wanted a program that competed seven or eight out of every ten years, for a spot in the post season. I always considered that post season to be March Madness and saw the NIT as the typical failure as in Not In Tournament. Now, given the level of play and the limits of NCAA bids, with almost all open bids going to BCS-league teams, I am more willing to accept the NIT bid as more success than failure. I am, however, still some higher-than-thou United Nations wannabee and do not formally recognize the CBA or CBI or whatever they are as legit. I also believe that it takes time to build anything, longer for an item from scratch, which I have said is the plight of our never-was program. Others seem to espouse to the ten-second sound bite method of immediate gratification. Giving a guy a million dollars means success is due yesterday.

I get the feeling that there are folks out there, roy included, who have this black and white view of success. I don't know what that is but apparently roy includes the need to have a saint or benevolent father figure at the top of this program as well. Not roy's words, mine. Not only do I want to watch Selection Sunday with SLU being relevant, I want a clean program (nothing major in terms of overt violations recognizing a 500+ page rulebook), kids to be successful, nice graduation rates, few if any criminal instances, on-campus packed house, and so on.

I am guessing that most will agree that that too is what they want. Maybe the real question is how to get there? It appears to me that Majerus is a polarizing figure. I just don't think we have an option to go a much different route. I cna't complain with Rick's success --- while two year win totals are not huge, he has replaced what he was left with and is now stocking his own supplies. With that stock comes more accountability. So I intend to watch the progress now with less of a perchant to cut breaks.

Thoughts.

I'll never be happy with anything short of the big dance, but I think it's important to be realistic. RM is the coach, whether people like it or not. He deserves a few seasons to get his system going. As I've mentioned on here several times, if we're not a top 2-3 team in the A10 and getting serious looks on selection Sunday after RM's 4th season, I'll be disappointed. If we're playing a bad schedule, only selling out 1 or 2 games, and finishing 7th or 8th in the A10 in year 4, RM should have to face the music IMO. Until then, it's all speculation. But hey, it's the offseason. What else can we do?

[kevinfootes]

Remember, as Broy used to say back in the Sodie years, hey it took Coach K three years at Duke to turn it around. He doesn't use this argument to defend RM, and much to my dismay basically backed up Mr. Scott's assessment 100%, because he just doesn't like the man. You don't have to like him, but as a Bills fan he does deserve the same consideration you gave UB.

This is a pretty good point. It's funny how some of the people who were preaching patience with Brad are all over RM. Also, some of the ones who picked at every move Brad made are now extremely patient with RM. But we're really just talking about a few people on here.

To be fair, though, RM should have much higher expectations. He's making big bucks and has better facilities than any other SLU coach in history. Brad was a bad hire, but Romar left fairly late and there wasn't much time to do a full search. When you combine that with Biondi not wanting to spend any money, you wind up with Brad. Brad always did just enough to hang around. I was willing to throw out his really bad season because of the injuries to Frericks and Bryant. It sucked for Brad that he was let go after his best season, but it looked like there was very little in the pipeline.

Anyway, we are where we are. Let's look forward.

[kevinfootes]

You want to share some of this stuff and maybe give a link to back it up?

Here is Rick Reilly's take on Rickma's terrible violations at Utah.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...life_of_reilly/

Do you really think RM ever went 2 days with eating?

[brianstl]

Do you really think RM ever went 2 days with eating?

He could have been sick.

[Tonka]

In my opinion you can lower that million dollar number and people still want success yesterday. You can swap out Majerus with a no name coach and people still want success yesterday. It's the nature of sports and sports fans. We all want success yesterday because when you don't achieve success and the season ends you have to wait over 7 months to try again. If you slip up and fail you have to wait quite a while just to try again. If you happen to be a fan of a program that hasn't seen success in some time, the patience is short and that waiting period seems like forever.

I think most reasonable people can step back even when their patience is growing thin and realize what should constitute success. I think our program is going through a period most of us have never seen. It is my firm belief we are building something here we haven't ever had. If you look at nothing more than post season play to define what is going here, then it's probably pretty easy to get frustrated. If you look at the big picture and take everything into consideration then I think the slow building process is easier to stomach.

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Roy would like in theory. But, I am not sure that type of coach even exists at a high level D1 program. There are trade offs with all coaches and I would never want a crook at the helm. I wonder how many truly "crooked" coaches exist that we never hear about or are never caught. I wonder how many coaches exist that have a minor violation or two yet are wonderful people in every area. There are coaches who probably never directly run off players but probably should have run off players rather then make them suffer through a bunch of crap. I wonder how many coaches indirectly run off players. College basketball has changed through the years and I think the things we see are nothing more than a reflection of the times.

I know anything can happen and I certainly expect more stumbling blocks as we go but I really think we are heading in the right direction. RM is certainly not my hero as a person, but I think he's a good coach, a pretty good guy overall, and knows how to build a program. I think his presence alone will help the program in the future. Coaches who may never haven given us a look may consider a job opening here should it ever come up.

[kevinfootes]

In my opinion you can lower that million dollar number and people still want success yesterday. You can swap out Majerus with a no name coach and people still want success yesterday. It's the nature of sports and sports fans. We all want success yesterday because when you don't achieve success and the season ends you have to wait over 7 months to try again. If you slip up and fail you have to wait quite a while just to try again. If you happen to be a fan of a program that hasn't seen success in some time, the patience is short and that waiting period seems like forever.

I don't disagree that people are starved for success, but you have to admit that RM has higher expectations than anyone else who has coached at SLU. He's had more career success, has better facilities, and is better compensated than any coach in SLU histroy.

[Tonka]

I don't disagree that people are starved for success, but you have to admit that RM has higher expectations than anyone else who has coached at SLU. He's had more career success, has better facilities, and is better compensated than any coach in SLU histroy.

I would absolutely agree with that. In my opinion he is doing what I thought he would. If when this year's freshman are juniors he doesn't make the NCAA I will be very disappointed and I also expect the good recruiting to continue each year.

[kevinfootes]

He could have been sick.

Sure!

Being sick is different than being broke.

[kevinfootes]

I would absolutely agree with that. In my opinion he is doing what I thought he would. If when this year's freshman are juniors he doesn't make the NCAA I will be very disappointed and I also expect the good recruiting to continue each year.

I think we're on the same page with RM.

[Taj79]

WOW! We got footsie, and Tonka, and one post by skip and one by '72 and I have no idea what SLUMS81 was trying to say --- twice, and brian. I guess this was way too deep for the trolls to waste their time on. Who wants to be logical and think about expectations when we can throw garbage all over the place in the pure safety that is the anonymous cyberspace great beyond.

In any case, thanks for the comments. I agree with the basic thoughts put out by my colleagues footsie and Tonka and echoed by the others. I also remeber Roy's calls for patience with Sodie and the alignment with Coach K's early years. i understnd Roy DOES NOT LIKE Majerus one bit and respect Roy enough to allow him his opinion and let it stand as is.

This thread sheds light on who I think I'll listen to and read more than not. And deep down, there are some real identifiable problems with anybody who is a tenth year senior. Trolls away.