Cusamano in St. Louis Sports Magazine

[inthelou]

I thought his shots at Brad were classless, especially given the fact I heard him call Brad "one of the top coaches in the country" during his tenure at SLU.

The other thing that was befuddling is the smugness about Majerus having "no jucos on the roster."

Does he just forget that players like Justin Love and Mo Jeffers were some of our best players in recent years?

[satrap]

I just read the article on the internet. It's just a homer newscaster's opinion, and it's not all that controversial. In fact, the article pretty much REintroduces us to the conventional wisdom that prevailed when he was hired: He has a plan, Brad was a nice, clueless dork, RM has a resume that's going to bring great recruits flocking, etc. It could still come true (though I would bet large amounts of money that SLU will never dominate even the A10), but it's also true that any of the "excitement" over RM's hiring has long since faded, both in the electronic media and the stands.

[courtside]

I just read the article on the internet. It's just a homer newscaster's opinion, and it's not all that controversial. In fact, the article pretty much REintroduces us to the conventional wisdom that prevailed when he was hired: He has a plan, Brad was a nice, clueless dork, RM has a resume that's going to bring great recruits flocking, etc. It could still come true (though I would bet large amounts of money that SLU will never dominate even the A10), but it's also true that any of the "excitement" over RM's hiring has long since faded, both in the electronic media and the stands.

This isn't, nor was it ever expected to be an overnight process. You simply cannot miss, and miss that badly, that often in recruiting to be competitive at a high level. Initially, Majerus is going to bring in solid players that he hopes to develop over a few year period. That will take time, development, and consistent contributing hits in recruiting. We'll see where the program is at after 5 years time with Majerus. The expectation is that it will be on good ground.

[kshoe]

I thought his shots at Brad were classless, especially given the fact I heard him call Brad "one of the top coaches in the country" during his tenure at SLU.

The other thing that was befuddling is the smugness about Majerus having "no jucos on the roster."

Does he just forget that players like Justin Love and Mo Jeffers were some of our best players in recent years?

Those were not classless attacks on Soderberg. Those were facts about his two biggest recruitinng misses. I thought it was a very positive article.

[brianstl]

This isn't, nor was it ever expected to be an overnight process. You simply cannot miss, and miss that badly, that often in recruiting to be competitive at a high level. Initially, Majerus is going to bring in solid players that he hopes to develop over a few year period. That will take time, development, and consistent contributing hits in recruiting. We'll see where the program is at after 5 years time with Majerus. The expectation is that it will be on good ground.

Courtside,

Do you think we should be getting our ass handed to us like we are on the road right now? Losing to XU and Temple I can understand, but the way it has happened and the Detroit came make no sense.

[Majerus Magic]

I thought his shots at Brad were classless, especially given the fact I heard him call Brad "one of the top coaches in the country" during his tenure at SLU.

The other thing that was befuddling is the smugness about Majerus having "no jucos on the roster."

Does he just forget that players like Justin Love and Mo Jeffers were some of our best players in recent years?

Anyone have a link?

[inthelou]

Those were not classless attacks on Soderberg. Those were facts about his two biggest recruitinng misses. I thought it was a very positive article.

I'm not saying it wasn't a positive article. I just have a problem with a media person calling somebody "one of the top coaches" (and I think he said "top five coaches") in the country just a few years ago and then ripping him when he's gone. To me, it just calls in the credibility of anything you "report" or say in the future. And isn't it time to lay the Ahearn thing to rest? Who know how he would have developed here? Who knows if he would have fit in to the system being played at the time? It's a ridiculous thing to bring up after all these years.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Anyone have a link?

http://issuu.com/stlsportsmag/docs/slsmjan09_issuu

Page 12.

[kshoe]

I'm not saying it wasn't a positive article. I just have a problem with a media person calling somebody "one of the top coaches" (and I think he said "top five coaches") in the country just a few years ago and then ripping him when he's gone. To me, it just calls in the credibility of anything you "report" or say in the future. And isn't it time to lay the Ahearn thing to rest? Who know how he would have developed here? Who knows if he would have fit in to the system being played at the time? It's a ridiculous thing to bring up after all these years.

Bringing up Ahearn and Harrellson is a realtively nice way to say Brad couldn't recruit worth a crap.

I don't remember Frank ever calling Brad a top 5 coach, but if he did I'm sure it was in realtion to his ability to get the most out of the players he had. If Frank said Brad the recruiter, coach, and program builder was top 5 then I think he must have been high that day.

[inthelou]

Bringing up Ahearn and Harrellson is a realtively nice way to say Brad couldn't recruit worth a crap.

I don't remember Frank ever calling Brad a top 5 coach, but if he did I'm sure it was in realtion to his ability to get the most out of the players he had. If Frank said Brad the recruiter, coach, and program builder was top 5 then I think he must have been high that day.

He said it on one of the Charter broadcasts. And as he always says "coaching" entails recruiting, Xs and Os, the media, the whole ball of wax.

I'm not letting him off the hook like you are. It's hypocritcal and two faced no matter how YOU want to spin it.

[courtside]

Courtside,

Do you think we should be getting our ass handed to us like we are on the road right now? Losing to XU and Temple I can understand, but the way it has happened and the Detroit came make no sense.

First, you won't see me be one of the extreme emotional responders after every loss. I didn't do that with Soderberg, nor will I do it with Majerus. I often times don't even respond shortly after games, as I prefer other times.

2nd, your question is not related to this thread, ...which is fine, but it is not relevant to Soderberg, Majerus, and the view that SLU has missed too many times in too many great numbers in recruiting which has put the program in a deep hole, of which getting out of it swiftly is not likely, and definitely not so under Majerus. Overall I believe it is fair to compare and evaluate states of programs over comparable time.

3rd, to your question, I do believe SLU can be more competitive on the road, probably not as much as you would like or like me to say, but yes I believe SLU can be more competitive on the road than what they currently are and have been, moving forward.

[brianstl]

First, you won't see me be one of the extreme emotional responders after every loss. I didn't do that with Soderberg, nor will I do it with Majerus. I often times don't even respond shortly after games, as I prefer other times.

2nd, your question is not related to this thread, ...which is fine, but it is not relevant to Soderberg, Majerus, and the view that SLU has missed too many times in too many great numbers in recruiting which has put the program in a deep hole, of which getting out of it swiftly is not likely, and definitely not so under Majerus. Overall I believe it is fair to compare and evaluate states of programs over comparable time.

3rd, to your question, I do believe SLU can be more competitive on the road, probably not as much as you would like or like me to say, but yes I believe SLU can be more competitive on the road than what they currently are and have been, moving forward.

But, my reply was ralated to your reply. If you want me to start a new thread every time I reply to a reponse of yours I will do that.

[Box and Won]

Cusumano has always been prone to overuse of hyperbole. Anytime he proclaims someone to be one of the best in the country or the greatest of all time, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

[courtside]

But, my reply was ralated to your reply. If you want me to start a new thread every time I reply to a reponse of yours I will do that.

That won't be necessary.

I responded to Satrap's post that basically takes a negative position on Majerus as related to Soderberg.

He was comparing apples to oranges because he hadn't waited a few more years to hold a more fair comparison. He was responding to the small extremes, as opposed to the majority. Most people know Majerus isn't going to be recruiting 5 star players annually while at SLU. That expectation only came from a very small minority at best. Most people also know that the program would not be immediately great upon the signature of Majerus to his contract, and so on and so forth.

I am guessing that your post Brian was more of a statement than a question. I read it as a question the first time. Are you asking a question to me or are you simply stating that SLU should be more competitive on the road than they have been this season or are right now? Either way, I would agree that SLU can be more competitive, but it is unknown as to whether we'd agree as to how much better SLU was and is to be expected to be on the road this year currently.

I don't fly off of the handle for every win and loss. That may make me an extreme here, I don't know.

SLU has an inexperienced Freshman point guard, who will be very good his Junior and Senior year, and who will likely be even a bit ahead of schedule as a Sophomore considering his work ethic. There is no other point guard on the roster, let alone one with experience.

SLU does not have any depth at any position on the court, nor does it have much experience at most positions on the court.

SLU lacks speed, length, and athleticism with few noticeable exceptions.

SLU is decent in terms of size for position, but definitely lacking in terms of strength.

Inexperienced players struggle with on the ball defense and with help defense. SLU's defense rotations on help defense v Temple for example were awful. This will be inconsistent all season and often times much better at home than on the road.

SLU lacks a quantity of players who are capable of creating offense for themselves and for others. This leaves little margin for error when running any offense, i.e....motion etc.. I have little doubt certain players such as KM will be able to do this increasingly well as their careers progress. He is an example of someone who will be able to more consistently create for himself and others and finish at the rim or deep. He doesn't possess that ability consistently at this time as a Freshman.

SLU needs to put together multiple solid recruiting classes for years to come to be more competitive more consistently as they gain experience. If SLU fails to land any or multiple elite immediate impact players, then the process will take more time.

If after given a reasonable amount of time, the program is not any better or significantly better than when he inherited it, Majerus won't be, nor shouldn't be around after that time. But that is so far down the road, it isn't worth discussion.

My answers, more times than not, though not always, will likely be in the middle.

[AlumniFan]

Bringing up Ahearn and Harrellson is a realtively nice way to say Brad couldn't recruit worth a crap.

I don't remember Frank ever calling Brad a top 5 coach, but if he did I'm sure it was in realtion to his ability to get the most out of the players he had. If Frank said Brad the recruiter, coach, and program builder was top 5 then I think he must have been high that day.

Maybe "Brad couldn't recruit worth a crap" (Tommie and Kevin, I guess that makes you both worth less than crap), but with much less talent, he won 20 games. The last 25 games that the Billikens have played have, on average, been pretty pathetic. Draw your own conclusions. Maybe something better will happen next year (GOD! How many times have I heard that as a Billiken fan?!?!?!?).

[kshoe]

Maybe "Brad couldn't recruit worth a crap" (Tommie and Kevin, I guess that makes you both worth less than crap), but with much less talent, he won 20 games. The last 25 games that the Billikens have played have, on average, been pretty pathetic. Draw your own conclusions. Maybe something better will happen next year (GOD! How many times have I heard that as a Billiken fan?!?!?!?).

I always love the argument that because Brad got TL and KL he must not be a bad recruiter. As if 2 good players over 5 years makes you a good recruiter. Good recruiters get two players of their caliber almost every year. Thats how good programs are developed like the ones we see at Gonzaga, Xavier, etc.

The reason this current Billiken team is not good is because of the glaring holes in our Sophomore and Junior classes. In my mind that falls squarely on Brad's shoulders as he brought in a bunch of guys that simply aren't good enough to contribute at this level.

If in 2 years when this class is in their junior year we aren't good then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. But hopefully those that want to be coy in their criticisms of RM will admit that they were wrong to ever doubt.

[AlumniFan]

"I always love the argument that because Brad got TL and KL he must not be a bad recruiter." You show me where I said that and I will write you a check for $1,000,000,000,000,000,000. Don't twist what people write to fit your own perspective and biases and to make it convenient for you to respond.

"But hopefully those that want to be coy in their criticisms of RM will admit that they were wrong to ever doubt." That is bull****! So, when someone responds to one of these posts in a way that is A) complimentary of Brad (I know how much the cabal hates that) and/or acknowledges a fact of the past season and a half, they are now being "coy in their criticisims of RM"? What a joke! So, I guess one cannot be a supporter of Brad and a supporter of Rick? Really? I guess we all have to pick sides and maybe wear buttons to the game that either say "I'm with Rick" or "I'm with Brad". Maybe we should have our own sections too. Heck, for that matter, maybe they can just field two teams. Just ridiculous.

I (or anyone else) can be a supporter of both. Deal with it.

[kshoe]

"I always love the argument that because Brad got TL and KL he must not be a bad recruiter." You show me where I said that and I will write you a check for $1,000,000,000,000,000,000. Don't twist what people write to fit your own perspective and biases and to make it convenient for you to respond.

"But hopefully those that want to be coy in their criticisms of RM will admit that they were wrong to ever doubt." That is bull****! So, when someone responds to one of these posts in a way that is A) complimentary of Brad (I know how much the cabal hates that) and/or acknowledges a fact of the past season and a half, they are now being "coy in their criticisims of RM"? What a joke! So, I guess one cannot be a supporter of Brad and a supporter of Rick? Really? I guess we all have to pick sides and maybe wear buttons to the game that either say "I'm with Rick" or "I'm with Brad". Maybe we should have our own sections too. Heck, for that matter, maybe they can just field two teams. Just ridiculous.

I (or anyone else) can be a supporter of both. Deal with it.

Tend to over-react much?

You are the one that inferred that because I said Brad's recruiting sucked I also meant that TL and KL sucked. Thankfully I didn't flip my lid on that one since I never said that.

Take a deep breath and get some sleep. I've got to call my bank tomorrow to see if your check for more money the U.S. GNP will be enough to get this economy back on track. If it is, I'll dig through some old posts to see if you ever said Brad was a good recruiter.

[GoBills]

I always love the argument that because Brad got TL and KL he must not be a bad recruiter. As if 2 good players over 5 years makes you a good recruiter. Good recruiters get two players of their caliber almost every year. Thats how good programs are developed like the ones we see at Gonzaga, Xavier, etc.

The reason this current Billiken team is not good is because of the glaring holes in our Sophomore and Junior classes. In my mind that falls squarely on Brad's shoulders as he brought in a bunch of guys that simply aren't good enough to contribute at this level.

If in 2 years when this class is in their junior year we aren't good then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. But hopefully those that want to be coy in their criticisms of RM will admit that they were wrong to ever doubt.

I completely agree. A fair assessment of our past coach and how the future with our current coach should be judged.

[AlumniFan]

Tend to over-react much?

You are the one that inferred that because I said Brad's recruiting sucked I also meant that TL and KL sucked. Thankfully I didn't flip my lid on that one since I never said that.

Take a deep breath and get some sleep. I've got to call my bank tomorrow to see if your check for more money the U.S. GNP will be enough to get this economy back on track. If it is, I'll dig through some old posts to see if you ever said Brad was a good recruiter.

No, you don't flip your lid, but every time someone says something the least critical of Rick, you unleash the dogs and attack the poster. And if someone supports Brad, then they must hate Rick. Get over it! Brad is gone. Let him be. God forbid someone disagree with the great analytical Kshoe and post their own opinion. Give me a break. It is amusing how you post a bunch of B.S. and then feign shock when someone gives it right back to you.

I am sick of people ripping on Brad TWO YEARS AFTER HE IS GONE and ripping on Kevin Lisch when he is nearly tied as the team's most productive player this year and is 7th in all-time scoring. How do you know if Brad was still coach that he would not be winning more games with his recruits than Rick is winning right now? The answer is YOU DON'T. Why don't you just concentrate on our current coach and quit pissing all over the former coach?

The other thing that is annoying is that a small group of you bring this stuff up largely just to disagree with Roy. What is the point? Everyone on this board already knows how you and your pals feel about Roy's opinion - can't you just let it go? I just do not understand why when I go to read this board once every few days during BB season, it seems that half the posts I read are the arguments the "consortium" is having with Roy.

I give. I should know better than to post a response to you, Kshoe. Lesson learned. Thanks.

[drkelsey55]

The other thing that is annoying is that a small group of you bring this stuff up largely just to disagree with Roy. What is the point? Everyone on this board already knows how you and your pals feel about Roy's opinion - can't you just let it go? I just do not understand why when I go to read this board once every few days during BB season, it seems that half the posts I read are the arguments the "consortium" is having with Roy.

I'll second this one.

[slufanskip]

No, you don't flip your lid, but every time someone says something the least critical of Rick, you unleash the dogs and attack the poster. And if someone supports Brad, then they must hate Rick. Get over it! Brad is gone. Let him be. God forbid someone disagree with the great analytical Kshoe and post their own opinion. Give me a break. It is amusing how you post a bunch of B.S. and then feign shock when someone gives it right back to you.

I am sick of people ripping on Brad TWO YEARS AFTER HE IS GONE and ripping on Kevin Lisch when he is nearly tied as the team's most productive player this year and is 7th in all-time scoring. How do you know if Brad was still coach that he would not be winning more games with his recruits than Rick is winning right now? The answer is YOU DON'T. Why don't you just concentrate on our current coach and quit pissing all over the former coach?

The other thing that is annoying is that a small group of you bring this stuff up largely just to disagree with Roy. What is the point? Everyone on this board already knows how you and your pals feel about Roy's opinion - can't you just let it go? I just do not understand why when I go to read this board once every few days during BB season, it seems that half the posts I read are the arguments the "consortium" is having with Roy.

I give. I should know better than to post a response to you, Kshoe. Lesson learned. Thanks.

With the exception of a couple of posters who shouldn't be allowed to post here, who is really "ripping Kevin?

Has he played as well as you expected him to?

I agree with you on the UB shots, he's gone, he was a class guy that Imo gave all he had.

[kshoe]

No, you don't flip your lid, but every time someone says something the least critical of Rick, you unleash the dogs and attack the poster. And if someone supports Brad, then they must hate Rick. Get over it! Brad is gone. Let him be. God forbid someone disagree with the great analytical Kshoe and post their own opinion. Give me a break. It is amusing how you post a bunch of B.S. and then feign shock when someone gives it right back to you.

I am sick of people ripping on Brad TWO YEARS AFTER HE IS GONE and ripping on Kevin Lisch when he is nearly tied as the team's most productive player this year and is 7th in all-time scoring. How do you know if Brad was still coach that he would not be winning more games with his recruits than Rick is winning right now? The answer is YOU DON'T. Why don't you just concentrate on our current coach and quit pissing all over the former coach?

The other thing that is annoying is that a small group of you bring this stuff up largely just to disagree with Roy. What is the point? Everyone on this board already knows how you and your pals feel about Roy's opinion - can't you just let it go? I just do not understand why when I go to read this board once every few days during BB season, it seems that half the posts I read are the arguments the "consortium" is having with Roy.

I give. I should know better than to post a response to you, Kshoe. Lesson learned. Thanks.

You really are one emotional guy AlumniFan.

Here is what I said in the first post "If in 2 years when this class is in their junior year we aren't good then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. But hopefully those that want to be coy in their criticisms of RM will admit that they were wrong to ever doubt"

If you think that statement was an "attack on the poster" then I suggest you re-read the two posts you directed at me and compare them to that and tell me again how I unleashed the dogs on you and not vice versa.

The only reason Brad came up in this thread was because the original poster said that Frank Cusumano pointing out his recruiting shortcomings was being classless. I was defending Frank by pointing out he said something that was true. Whatever.

The simple fact is we are not a good team this year. Some want to blame RM for not recruiting freshmen good enough to finish at the top of the A-10. Others choose to point out the recruiting failures that lead to empty sophomore and junior classes. Still others want to say its a failure of senior leadership. I tend to fall in the missing sophomore and juniors camp but thats just me. Until that no longer becomes a principal reason for our failures as a team I suspect Brad's name many come up from time to time. Deal with it.

[Box and Won]

I think Brad's undoing was not so much an inability to recruit, but an inability to judge talent and identify kids who would have been a good fit for the program.

[billiken_roy]

I think Brad's undoing was not so much an inability to recruit, but an inability to judge talent and identify kids who would have been a good fit for the program.

i think soderberg' biggest recruiting shortcoming and the one thing i like most about rickma recruiting was soderberg's inability to let go of the recruit that wouldnt commit but kept him on the line. one of rickma's finest days was dropping suggs and moving on. you can bet soderberg would have rode that pony to the end of the race and came in second again.

had soderberg moved on instead of waiting for the recruits that ended up at iowa, kansas state, illinois, georgia, etc, maybe he gets his second choice instead of settling for spring recruits after it was all picked over.

maybe if he hadnt found the likes of izik and drejaj so late successfully he would have never gotten in that mindset in the first place.