Nate's Board

[jjray]

Nate, don't let a few people with unrealistic thoughts on how business and message boards operate push you away. You tipped us off to a big story and the info filtered to the board in what, a few hours later? No harm at all. Posting on message boards is a fundamental part of business promotion. If the post is just spam, then it's banned. If the post add to the discussion, it is accepted. Those are the rules on just about any message board I've posted on. Nate adds lots of info to the Billikens.com threads so I don't get the backlash. Silly.

[slufanskip]

It's pretty obvious, Nate should be shot.

I don't think we should shoot him, but I do believe a spanking would be in order.

Seriously, I think the reason people see a problem with this one tidbit was the obvious speculation it would start, and with that I agree. Overall though, I'd say this board would be worse off without Nate feeding us what he does. It's his job, he has costs associated with any info he gets, and he gives us good info frequently for free. Of course, he'd like for that to lead to more of us subscribing.

At first, I had a problem with links being put up to his pay articles, but have reconsider that and believe I was wrong. If he wasn't sharing anything with us and was solely using the board to advertise or tease for his site, I'd feel differently. Yes, he "advertises" on this site, in return he "pays" us with free info we wouldn't get elsewhere or as soon. Imo, we're getting the better end of the deal.

If it wasn't for the hard times that have hit the car business, I'd subscribe. I did for a while and enjoyed it, but had to cut back in some areas. Run a Christmas sale Nate, and I'll be back.

[William Iken]

That's not information I'm going to share here. In the future, I'll probably be less likely to share information here based on the feedback from this most recent story. Everyone wants the information, but most don't care how much time, effort and resources I'm spending to get that information.

This is part of the reason newspapers are dying. Newspapers give away their content for free on the internet. In return, less people buy the newspapers. When newspaper subscriptions decrease, revenue goes down and then the newspapers have to fire employees (writers, photographers, designers, etc.) that were producing the content and then the quality of the content decreases.

Two years ago, Lee Enterprises' (owner of the P-D) stock was trading around $36 a share. Yesterday, it was down to 35 cents a share.

Good business strategy there.

Nate, I don't think anyone has a problem with you keeping information for the pay site. As many have said, I hope you can eventually make some money on it. I'll keep my opinions on this on your 'teasing' in general and for specifically this 'controversy' to myself...

But I must take issue with your analogy. Print newspaper readership is down but in fact no one reads the online newspapers that charge a fee for the service; charging for the service has proven to cause a loss in advertising revenue (one famous int'l example is readership and income at the Irish Times). Most newspapers who have tried fee for service have reversed the decision (see NY Times and their 'premium content' service). The point being is that many newspapers decided to provide content online for free for purely financial reasons - it attracts readers and advertising dollars. Had the Post Dispatch and others tried charging for content, they'd still likely to be worth 35 cents (or less) - most newspapers that tried to charge lost both readers and income.

On the other hand, news outlets that have moved with the times are flourishing - several 'real' print newspapers are now given away for free precisely because it increases readership and thus advertising dollars (due to increased exposure). Heck, now that I think about it, the porn industry online figured this out a long time ago. Of course, the key is attracting the advertising dollar.

Again, I don't think anyone has a problem with you keeping scoops, recruiting information, etc on the premium site. The junkees will pay, others will miss the gossip, rumours, and some failed recruiting efforts. They'll also get the actual news a bit late. You have a business to run and everone knows the score with that. I hope you keep dripping information on a regular basis, but that's your choice.

[isotope]

A couple things on this...

If you ask around, you'll probably find that I am very willing to give info to just about anybody who asks. I've exchanged e-mails with people who say they don't see the value in my site but appreciate whatever insights I offer here, and I always make myself available to those folks if they are looking for more information about a recruit, something with the team, whatever.

If I were trying to keep the Cotto information from Billikens fans, I wouldn't have called TT yesterday to tip him off to the story.

By the way, if you check out the premium message board on my site, you'll not only find the info about the Australian power forward target, along with a video interview with the kid and some highlights, but you'll also read about the new point guard the Billikens are targeting for next year's recruiting class.

That's not information I'm going to share here. In the future, I'll probably be less likely to share information here based on the feedback from this most recent story. Everyone wants the information, but most don't care how much time, effort and resources I'm spending to get that information.

This is part of the reason newspapers are dying. Newspapers give away their content for free on the internet. In return, less people buy the newspapers. When newspaper subscriptions decrease, revenue goes down and then the newspapers have to fire employees (writers, photographers, designers, etc.) that were producing the content and then the quality of the content decreases.

Two years ago, Lee Enterprises' (owner of the P-D) stock was trading around $36 a share. Yesterday, it was down to 35 cents a share.

Good business strategy there.

[courtside]

Nate. Can't (shouldn't) have it both ways. If "park just like everyone else" and if you have expenses like other vendors, then go ahead and charge your fees. While you're at it, do your own marketing. Here, unlike other websites and publications, you come on this Board and, like Roy says, start a teasing post yourself. IMO, you should not have been able to do that. Next time, have someone else start the post, then you can post that you have info but that it's on your premium site. Doing it all yourself looks bad.

No, it doesn't. As I said in a different thread it is not as if Nate only comes here to promote his site, 1005 of the time nor anywhere close to it. He routinely, and frequently provides insight here for free that many other people here would not get otherwise.

[courtside]

I do not have a problem with what Nate did. He is a valuable member of the Billiken fan base and is trying to report on information that is interesting to us. I am not one of the paid subscribers for financial reasons, so I do not have a problem with Nate referring to his premium articles on the message board as long as he is not using the board solely as an advertising vehicle. He brings much more to the board than many posters.

Sanity.

[courtside]

That is my exact point. Use of a fan/hobby board for one's financial motives does not appear to be a proper purpose for this Board. To me, that crosses the line. Nate used the Board - which naturally stirred up all sorts of false and hurtful rumors - and no compensation was paid.

We all know that Nate has his own business and I, like others, all wish him well and do not begrudge him for trying to earn much needed revenue. I am not "pissed when (I don't) get other things in life for free when others have to pay." To date, I have chosen not to subscribe to his site. My choice. No big deal. Like Alumni, because I enjoy the insights from Nate (and others) I have no problem with "the usual tidbits" Nate provides while suggesting that more (or even the full story) is on his premium. Also, every once in a while I enjoy a bit of insight from StLHoops and therefore, for the most part, am patient with his self-promoting for his own financial benefit.

Just curious. Where does it stop? Should we all advertise for our own business. Apparently, using the Board for compaigning purposes is fine. Not my Board so I defer to Steve and the Moderators but do remind all as to the apparent purpose of this Board:

Billikens.com is a site run by the fans for the fans of Saint Louis University Men’s Basketball. It is owned by SignGuy’s Sites, LLC whose primary agent is Steve Rogers. The site is primarily run as a hobby, and the funding for Billikens.com is entirely donation based (and those donations are greatly appreciated!)

As mentioned, I do enjoy Nate's post and don't want to diminish them nor do I begrudge his efforts to earn money while promoting the Billikens. Just thought this time it was was "too big" (Alumin) and that he "teased" this Board too much (BRoy). Orange. As I posted before, to help Nate, I did suggest that if someone else breaks a story and Nate simply says, "Yes, there is info on my site..." then it would make Nate look much better IMO.

So it's Nate's fault that other posters posted false rumors without any facts whatsoever? Huh? Is it really that difficult to not post false rumors and accusations on a message board? Why can't you raise the bar in your approach?

Nate's "business" is SLU sports. Big difference than just advertising anything and everything, don't you think? And, you routinely discount the quality of Nate's contributions for free to this board when making your conclusions.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Nate, I don't think anyone has a problem with you keeping information for the pay site. As many have said, I hope you can eventually make some money on it. I'll keep my opinions on this on your 'teasing' in general and for specifically this 'controversy' to myself...

But I must take issue with your analogy. Print newspaper readership is down but in fact no one reads the online newspapers that charge a fee for the service; charging for the service has proven to cause a loss in advertising revenue (one famous int'l example is readership and income at the Irish Times). Most newspapers who have tried fee for service have reversed the decision (see NY Times and their 'premium content' service). The point being is that many newspapers decided to provide content online for free for purely financial reasons - it attracts readers and advertising dollars. Had the Post Dispatch and others tried charging for content, they'd still likely to be worth 35 cents (or less) - most newspapers that tried to charge lost both readers and income.

On the other hand, news outlets that have moved with the times are flourishing - several 'real' print newspapers are now given away for free precisely because it increases readership and thus advertising dollars (due to increased exposure). Heck, now that I think about it, the porn industry online figured this out a long time ago. Of course, the key is attracting the advertising dollar.

Again, I don't think anyone has a problem with you keeping scoops, recruiting information, etc on the premium site. The junkees will pay, others will miss the gossip, rumours, and some failed recruiting efforts. They'll also get the actual news a bit late. You have a business to run and everone knows the score with that. I hope you keep dripping information on a regular basis, but that's your choice.

Last Monday the USA Today went from .75 to $. Too much for me, even if I do enjoy the sports section.

[StLouBlue]

I do not have a problem with what Nate did. He is a valuable member of the Billiken fan base and is trying to report on information that is interesting to us. I am not one of the paid subscribers for financial reasons, so I do not have a problem with Nate referring to his premium articles on the message board as long as he is not using the board solely as an advertising vehicle. He brings much more to the board than many posters.

I agree. I enjoy being able to read what Nate brings to this board and maybe one day I will sign up for his premium service. If someone thinks this was too big of a deal to be teased, well then sign up for the premium service or just wait it out like the rest of us.

Thanks to Nate & to Steve for both contributing to my enjoyment of the Billikens.

[billiken_roy]

If someone thinks this was too big of a deal to be teased, well then sign up for the premium service or just wait it out like the rest of us.

the tease didnt bother me in the least. what bothered me was the tease led to the trolls claiming all kinds of wild speculation and false rumors. if we werent going to get the whole story, i would have rather nate only told his loyal readers and the rest of us could wait for tom timmermann's report rather than scar the reputation of some of our other players. i realize nate didnt do the "scarring" but it was the spark that led to it.

[GoBills]

But it seems to me the "trolls" are pretty easy to recognize and therefore dismiss. The story was accurate and it would have come out sooner or later.

[AlumniFan]

Nate, don't let a few people with unrealistic thoughts on how business and message boards operate push you away. You tipped us off to a big story and the info filtered to the board in what, a few hours later? No harm at all. Posting on message boards is a fundamental part of business promotion. If the post is just spam, then it's banned. If the post add to the discussion, it is accepted. Those are the rules on just about any message board I've posted on. Nate adds lots of info to the Billikens.com threads so I don't get the backlash. Silly.

"Clock, if you don't think Nate have should have come on this board to promote his story, you have no idea how to run a business. He would have purposely been neglecting his largest target market. If he doesn't promote to us, who the hell is he going to promote to then? Crossing the line? Please."

Why is it that when someone disagrees with the actions of another on this board, they all of a sudden have "no idea how to run a business" or have "unrealistic thoughts on how business" operates? I like Nate. I appreciate his contributions. I hope he is successful. But, I think his decision on this particular situation was wrong.

I will put my ability to run a business or my realistic thoughts about business up against anyone's any day. Just because some of us disagree does not mean we are out of touch with business or do not understand business. We simply disagree...or is that not allowed on internet boards...?

[Clock_Tower]

Now that all have a had a chance to take a breath hopefully regain their own sanity let me point out a couple of things:

First, my partners and I run our own business including employees etc. Rest assured about my own business skills. Despite this poor economy, we had our best year this year so while I appreciate much of your concerns (most likely from those who only read about us who actually own our own businesses) don't worry about my ability to run a business.

Second, this is Internet board, open to the public, in which Billiken fans are encouraged to voluntarily post if they so choose. If they don't want to post, so be it. I believe Steve calls it: a Board for the fans by a fan. Not a commercial activity. Normally, Nate does lead like he did in this instance. In this case he did and I am not really sure why? The usual pattern has been SLU might be interested in guys A, B and C (often given to us by Nate) and then Nate's premium Board can give all interested parties the details behind them. I only laugh at you who think I am angry that all information is not free. I would have thought that Nate would have broken the story by saying RC is leaving, full story on his site.

This time, instead, the name was not given and then the speculation ran wild. Do those who spread false rumors bear liability? Of course they do. At the same time, our laws also provide liability to the guy who knowingly/falsely yells "Fire" in a crowded theater when someone becomes injured/dead despite the fact that he did trample on anyone.

Third, do I want Nate to continue posting? Of course. Nate. In hindsight, I probably should have sent you a PM instead of a public post. Sorry. Despite the same, I have great respect for Nate, I even went so far as to post a different way to handle the same while still protecting his proprietary information.

[StLouBlue]

the tease didnt bother me in the least. what bothered me was the tease led to the trolls claiming all kinds of wild speculation and false rumors. if we werent going to get the whole story, i would have rather nate only told his loyal readers and the rest of us could wait for tom timmermann's report rather than scar the reputation of some of our other players. i realize nate didnt do the "scarring" but it was the spark that led to it.

Trolls or just people flying off the handle on things is just part of normal business on a message board. The news came out quickly enough through the regular media sources and I seriously doubt there was any "scarring" of reputations done. In fact I would guess the posters that did the wild speculation and false rumors probably hurt their reputation more than any damage caused to players.

I am sure if Nate didn't start the post, one of his regular readers would have been here minutes later starting a post on it.

I think with RM's past of weeding out players and with our large freshmen class, we should probably get used to the idea that players will come & go quite often. That is just the reality of big time college basketball & we are working our way to the level.

[GoBills]

Missouri State has a frehsman named Hobbs leaving. It happens all over.

[brianstl]

Now that all have a had a chance to take a breath hopefully regain their own sanity let me point out a couple of things:

First, my partners and I run our own business including employees etc. Rest assured about my own business skills. Despite this poor economy, we had our best year this year so while I appreciate much of your concerns (most likely from those who only read about us who actually own our own businesses) don't worry about my ability to run a business.

Second, this is Internet board, open to the public, in which Billiken fans are encouraged to voluntarily post if they so choose. If they don't want to post, so be it. I believe Steve calls it: a Board for the fans by a fan. Not a commercial activity. Normally, Nate does lead like he did in this instance. In this case he did and I am not really sure why? The usual pattern has been SLU might be interested in guys A, B and C (often given to us by Nate) and then Nate's premium Board can give all interested parties the details behind them. I only laugh at you who think I am angry that all information is not free. I would have thought that Nate would have broken the story by saying RC is leaving, full story on his site.

This time, instead, the name was not given and then the speculation ran wild. Do those who spread false rumors bear liability? Of course they do. At the same time, our laws also provide liability to the guy who knowingly/falsely yells "Fire" in a crowded theater when someone becomes injured/dead despite the fact that he did trample on anyone.

Third, do I want Nate to continue posting? Of course. Nate. In hindsight, I probably should have sent you a PM instead of a public post. Sorry. Despite the same, I have great respect for Nate, I even went so far as to post a different way to handle the same while still protecting his proprietary information.

Seriously, read what you posted before you made your comments about Nate's post. Fans are encouraged to voluntarily post if they choose. Nate choose to post something that provided information to fans. Even if he didn't provide the full story for free, he gave you information (that a freshman was transfering) that you wouldn't have had for at least eight hours prior to that. It would have probably have been longer due to the fact that Nate is the guy that tipped off Bernie and Tom to the story. So what if you didn't get all the info for free right away. You still got some of the info at least eight hours before you would have otherwise.

The only people that ran wild with the info were people that everyone on here should know not to pay attention to. Seriously the post said freshman, but some idiot had to list two seniors as possiblities. If you would pay attention to this board you should have known who it was as soon as Nark posted.

I am sorry you feel like you were left out of the loop on this one. If your business is doing as well as you say.......why not spend a few extra dollars a month on something that is providing a valuable service to Billiken fans. It is unbelievable what Billiken fans will find to ***** about.