St Louis will be fine...

[XPS]

I know alot of you are upset over losing Josh and rightfully so, but you have one of the best X&O's coaches in the country. Rick doesn't need 5 star players, he takes what he can get and makes a damn good team. I remember 1998 when he coached Utah to the championship game, that team didn't have one GREAT player on it, Miller was pretty good, that team was well coached and a prime example of a Rick Majerus team. SLU will be very good in just a few short years. Good Luck...

[dewey33]

I know alot of you are upset over losing Josh and rightfully so, but you have one of the best X&O's coaches in the country. Rick doesn't need 5 star players, he takes what he can get and makes a damn good team. I remember 1998 when he coached Utah to the championship game, that team didn't have one GREAT player on it, Miller was pretty good, that team was well coached and a prime example of a Rick Majerus team. SLU will be very good in just a few short years. Good Luck...

Miller was GOOD? He has been a starter in the NBA for years..........I bet Harrelson hopes he will have Miller's career!

[Taj79]

C'mon ----- Suggs was a savior. Griffey was a savior. Hansborough was a savior. Names like Roundtree, Booker, Brandenburg, Swopshire, John, Thompson, Powell, Perry, Anderson and others have floated and wafted through the air. Josh Harrelson was an afterthought. So he had a good year and would have probably played a nice role.

I remember feeling horrible when guys like McKinney, Miles, Lee, Ellis and even Stipo went off to other places. Carawell, White, Drexler, Mimlitz, Woods, Parker, Jr, and others. Kern didn't qualify. Hollins reneged. Hughes opted out early. I remember being devastated by most of those announcement. Josh Harrelson? In Rick I trust.

[Pistol]

C'mon ----- Suggs was a savior. Griffey was a savior. Hansborough was a savior. Names like Roundtree, Booker, Brandenburg, Swopshire, John, Thompson, Powell, Perry, Anderson and others have floated and wafted through the air. Josh Harrelson was an afterthought. So he had a good year and would have probably played a nice role.

I remember feeling horrible when guys like McKinney, Miles, Lee, Ellis and even Stipo went off to other places. Carawell, White, Drexler, Mimlitz, Woods, Parker, Jr, and others. Kern didn't qualify. Hollins reneged. Hughes opted out early. I remember being devastated by most of those announcement. Josh Harrelson? In Rick I trust.

We've come in second place too many times to count- plenty more on there you didn't mention (though some you do mention we probably never had a shot at). It's frustrating because I see us as a program finally on our way up the hill with some legitimate steam- beating UK for Josh would have been a nice boost. But I'm still confident with what we've got now. This loss in previous years would have set us back significantly. Ironically, passing on him the first time set us back a bit.

[billiken_roy]

Ironically, passing on him the first time set us back a bit.

i believe he would have reneged on saint louis university as well.

[jjray]

I put the loss of Harrellson on Sodie's soldiers. He was there for the taking while coming out of HS. True, he was raw then but we had a bundle of open scholarships. A few of us were calling for Sodie to sign the kid but Brad knew better. He was chasing bigger game ... and paid the price for it.

[billiken_roy]

jjray, if josh had went off to western, i agree. but he didnt. he reneged and said it was because family required him to stay closer to home and then he ultimately takes a scholarship at one of the holy grail college programs even though it has been reported nothing has changed with his family situation.

i.e. , obviously he lied about his reason to renege on western because he had the big senior season and became aware he had undersold himself. imo, he would have reneged on saint louis university as well. otherwise, he would be a billiken right now.

this is nothing to lose sleep over. he would have been a fantastic answer to our center position, but he is gone. we need to move on and find other debate topics.

[Pistol]

jjray, if josh had went off to western, i agree. but he didnt. he reneged and said it was because family required him to stay closer to home and then he ultimately takes a scholarship at one of the holy grail college programs even though it has been reported nothing has changed with his family situation.

i.e. , obviously he lied about his reason to renege on western because he had the big senior season and became aware he had undersold himself. imo, he would have reneged on saint louis university as well. otherwise, he would be a billiken right now.

this is nothing to lose sleep over. he would have been a fantastic answer to our center position, but he is gone. we need to move on and find other debate topics.

Two questions:

Do you honestly believe he would have done the same thing to SLU as with WIU? I have no superiority complex or anything, I just don't think that would have happened. SLU is closer to St. Charles than SWIC is, anyway. If there was any legitimacy to his using "family issues" as a reason, then I don't see how SWIC would be a better option than SLU. Do you honestly believe that wherever he signed out of high school would have been a jumping-off point to a bigger program? SLU would have been the only relatively big program offering at that point, right? That would have been quite a bit of arrogance to pass up SLU to go to SWIC thinking that all the big boys would come knocking the next year, even if they did in the end.

Do you think we should have passed on him for this reason? Do you think that's why Brad didn't offer him? "Ho hum, he's just going to transfer out after a year anyway." Doubtful. Brad screwed the pooch on this one.

[XPS]

Miller was GOOD? He has been a starter in the NBA for years..........I bet Harrelson hopes he will have Miller's career!

Miller has never been a superstar...

[billiken_roy]

Two questions:

Do you honestly believe he would have done the same thing to SLU as with WIU? I have no superiority complex or anything, I just don't think that would have happened. SLU is closer to St. Charles than SWIC is, anyway. If there was any legitimacy to his using "family issues" as a reason, then I don't see how SWIC would be a better option than SLU. Do you honestly believe that wherever he signed out of high school would have been a jumping-off point to a bigger program? SLU would have been the only relatively big program offering at that point, right? That would have been quite a bit of arrogance to pass up SLU to go to SWIC thinking that all the big boys would come knocking the next year, even if they did in the end.

Do you think we should have passed on him for this reason? Do you think that's why Brad didn't offer him? "Ho hum, he's just going to transfer out after a year anyway." Doubtful. Brad screwed the pooch on this one.

he went to swic because his only options were western or a non d-1 school if he wanted to play this past season. if he went to a juco he could play and if the loi was cleared transfer immediately. if he had transferred to slu he would have had to sit out a season and lose at least a year of eligibility (remember josh fisher and pepperdine. josh only got to play his senior season when pepperdine allowed it after 4 years)

no i dont think brad passed on him because he suspected josh would not honor a loi. soderberg flat out missed. like 340 other d-1 schools. what i meant is that if he had signed a loi with slu when in high school INSTEAD OF WESTERN, i now question if after that fantastic senior season he wouldnt have done the same to slu as he did to western. it is now very obvious that he reneged on his loi because western wasnt bigtime enough. why would slu have been any different?

[billikendave]

he went to swic because his only options were western or a non d-1 school if he wanted to play this past season. if he went to a juco he could play and if the loi was cleared transfer immediately. if he had transferred to slu he would have had to sit out a season and lose at least a year of eligibility (remember josh fisher and pepperdine. josh only got to play his senior season when pepperdine allowed it after 4 years)

no i dont think brad passed on him because he suspected josh would not honor a loi. soderberg flat out missed. like 340 other d-1 schools. what i meant is that if he had signed a loi with slu when in high school INSTEAD OF WESTERN, i now question if after that fantastic senior season he wouldnt have done the same to slu as he did to western. it is now very obvious that he reneged on his loi because western wasnt bigtime enough. why would slu have been any different?

Roy, I think you got this one exactly right....

[Mobile-iken]

I wonder if Josh informed the SLU coaching staff of his decision, or did they find out the same we did...Through Facebook?

[Pistol]

he went to swic because his only options were western or a non d-1 school if he wanted to play this past season. if he went to a juco he could play and if the loi was cleared transfer immediately. if he had transferred to slu he would have had to sit out a season and lose at least a year of eligibility (remember josh fisher and pepperdine. josh only got to play his senior season when pepperdine allowed it after 4 years)

no i dont think brad passed on him because he suspected josh would not honor a loi. soderberg flat out missed. like 340 other d-1 schools. what i meant is that if he had signed a loi with slu when in high school INSTEAD OF WESTERN, i now question if after that fantastic senior season he wouldnt have done the same to slu as he did to western. it is now very obvious that he reneged on his loi because western wasnt bigtime enough. why would slu have been any different?

Pepperdine didn't just "allow" it - Josh Fisher and his family got the lawyers involved and won.

I don't doubt that's why he pulled back on Western, and these "family issues" are looking questionable at best right now. But do you think SLU and WIU were equals in his mind? I'd like to think we were in a better situation, even then. Also, I didn't ask about him signing with WIU and then transferring to SLU. My scenario was that if SLU offered out of high school, he would have taken the offer and not pulled back to go to SWIC. He couldn't have used "family issues" as an excuse in that case or the shaky situation of the program. If Brad had offered him, SLU would have been easily the biggest program in the picture.

You can read my post again, I never said anything about transferring to SLU from WIU, but rather that it would have played out differently if he had the offer from SLU in the first place (i.e. when I say SLU is closer to home for him than SWIC is, he couldn't have pulled out of SLU's offer to go to SWIC on the same grounds he did with WIU).

[billiken_roy]

Pepperdine didn't just "allow" it - Josh Fisher and his family got the lawyers involved and won.

I don't doubt that's why he pulled back on Western, and these "family issues" are looking questionable at best right now. But do you think SLU and WIU were equals in his mind? I'd like to think we were in a better situation, even then. Also, I didn't ask about him signing with WIU and then transferring to SLU. My scenario was that if SLU offered out of high school, he would have taken the offer and not pulled back to go to SWIC. He couldn't have used "family issues" as an excuse in that case or the shaky situation of the program. If Brad had offered him, SLU would have been easily the biggest program in the picture.

You can read my post again, I never said anything about transferring to SLU from WIU, but rather that it would have played out differently if he had the offer from SLU in the first place (i.e. when I say SLU is closer to home for him than SWIC is, he couldn't have pulled out of SLU's offer to go to SWIC on the same grounds he did with WIU).

it is now obvious that western never once bought the "family crisis" story. so it didnt matter. for all practical purposes, josh was reneging all along because of his undersell of his ability. that is my reasoning. he was advised he was meant to be big time and western or slu were not.

[Pistol]

it is now obvious that western never once bought the "family crisis" story. so it didnt matter. for all practical purposes, josh was reneging all along because of his undersell of his ability. that is my reasoning. he was advised he was meant to be big time and western or slu were not.

I think any "family crisis" can be solved with a huge envelope of cash.

Kentucky fans can guffaw at that statement all they want. They know that their ranks are chock full of Buddy Garrity-types who would sell their souls to see the 'Cats win.

I would think the nice folks at Kentucky's own Fort Knox are UK fans, as well.

[satrap]

it is now obvious that western never once bought the "family crisis" story. so it didnt matter. for all practical purposes, josh was reneging all along because of his undersell of his ability. that is my reasoning. he was advised he was meant to be big time and western or slu were not.

Nobody bought the family crisis story. Not WIU, not SWIC, not Josh, not the family member in crisis, nobody except for maybe Big Bill Fan and Bernie Miklasz. Go back to the thread about Bernie's Saturday morning 'expose' on Harrelson, read it again, and laugh away- like I did that morning.

Who the hell is Josh Harrelson anyway? Believe me, you won't here much about him in the coming years.

[ACE]

i believe he would have reneged on saint louis university as well.

Come on. This just smacks of a roymor. Pure speculation designed to take some of the heat off of your boy Sodie.

Roy, I agree with you to an extent that I think some of the criticism of Sodie for not landing JH originally is a bit overblown. It probably wasn't that obvious at the time that he was a quality D1 player considering that other recruiters were not exactly beating down the door to get to him. On the long list of Sodie recruiting blunders, this ranks further down the list.

[Clock_Tower]

I wonder if Josh informed the SLU coaching staff of his decision, or did they find out the same we did...Through Facebook?

Yet another classless act by a classless individual. What he did to WIU was wrong. Then, his lies to WIU is, IMO, why WIU did what they did. Then his appeals to St. Louis (RM and Bernie) who helped get him out of WIU/SWIC while then exploring his public optionis to explore Ohio St., UCLA, etc. Sorry, but I have trouble believing JH is really that good. If he was, why did UCLA, Ohio St. and the others not offer him as well. Yes he had interest but that does not mean everyone of the big name schools offered him.

BTW, do people realize that Kentucky is no longer being coached by Pitino, Rupp or Joe B. Hall? "10 loss Tubby" was/is a good coach (better than Billy G. in my opinion) and he didn't get it done. What makes anyone think Kentucky will regain its elite status un Billy G? So he landed Acie Law in Texas A&M and then bolted as soon as possible leaving little behind in Texas. His initial start at Kentucky has not been stellar and I don't think JH will take KY to where they want/expect to go. Would he have been a good role player for SLU? Quite possibly. Role player, not a savior.

[jjray]

no i dont think brad passed on him because he suspected josh would not honor a loi. soderberg flat out missed. like 340 other d-1 schools. what i meant is that if he had signed a loi with slu when in high school INSTEAD OF WESTERN, i now question if after that fantastic senior season he wouldnt have done the same to slu as he did to western. it is now very obvious that he reneged on his loi because western wasnt bigtime enough. why would slu have been any different?

I can see a raw player whose career is on the upswing just starting to get attract interest from higher levels passing on WIU. But I'd like to think SLU is at a much higher level and, thus, would have stood a much better chance of holding on to Josh. Roy, I know you see SLU in a higher place in the D1 b-ball pecking order than WIU. I'll grant your point that no one knows if he would reneged on SLU as well.

... Also, Josh said in the past that he really wanted to go to SLU as a high school player but Sodie wouldn't recruit him. Perhaps the prior lack of interest from SLU left a bad taste in his mouth.

[jjray]

Come on. This just smacks of a roymor. Pure speculation designed to take some of the heat off of your boy Sodie.

Roy, I agree with you to an extent that I think some of the criticism of Sodie for not landing JH originally is a bit overblown. It probably wasn't that obvious at the time that he was a quality D1 player considering that other recruiters were not exactly beating down the door to get to him. On the long list of Sodie recruiting blunders, this ranks further down the list.

Sodie's list of recruiting blunders is myriad. The Harrellson thing is more of a symptom of the overall pattern. Plenty of open scholarships. Player fills a need. Sodie schleps around chasing bigger game. Ends up whiffing and trying to plug the holes with left-overs way, way late in the recruiting cycle.

[ACE]

Sodie's list of recruiting blunders is myriad. The Harrellson thing is more of a symptom of the overall pattern. Plenty of open scholarships. Player fills a need. Sodie schleps around chasing bigger game. Ends up whiffing and trying to plug the holes with left-overs way, way late in the recruiting cycle.

jj, you are preaching to the choir here. If I was going to elaborate on my post, you said exactly what I would have said. I was consistently on here raising hell about the open scholarships. Since Sodie didn't have the juice to beat some of the bigger programs on a consistent basis for recruits, he needed to have an eye for those hidden gems. He failed to find his recruiting niche.

[kshoe]

i believe he would have reneged on saint louis university as well.

Roy, there is simply nothing factual to make one believe he would have reneged on SLU as well out of highschool.

1) You assume WIU (ranked about 300+) is about equal to SLU (around 100).

2) You assume JH would choose SWIC over SLU. Getting a better deal than SLU after a year at SWIC was in no way guaranteed when he started last fall.

3) If he only has stars in his eyes, why even bother with SLU in this last recruitment? Why not visit UK, OSU, Indiana and UCLA?

It should be obvious to any reasonable person that if BS had offered him a scholly out of HS he would be a Billiken today.

[Clock_Tower]

I can see a raw player whose career is on the upswing just starting to get attract interest from higher levels passing on WIU. But I'd like to think SLU is at a much higher level and, thus, would have stood a much better chance of holding on to Josh. Roy, I know you see SLU in a higher place in the D1 b-ball pecking order than WIU. I'll grant your point that no one knows if he would reneged on SLU as well.

... Also, Josh said in the past that he really wanted to go to SLU as a high school player but Sodie wouldn't recruit him. Perhaps the prior lack of interest from SLU left a bad taste in his mouth.

JJ. JH has proven to be not credible. Why do you take some statements from him as being truthful? Liers do make truthful statements but how can one tell the difference? JH lied to WIU, I believe he lied about Brad and Brad's interest in him, he has continued to lie about his family situation and need to stay local, etc.

Bad taste in his mouth? By all accounts, JH would have committed and played for RM last year if he could have gotten out of his LOI. He made that clear right after RM was hired. No sign of bad taste in his mouth last Spring.

I believe JH foolishly signed with WIU and ignored Brad's advice. Then he lied to WIU and WIU treated him the way they did. If I were the head coach at WIU and JH did this to me, didn't come clean all the while the administration puts pressure upon me to win (or else I get fired) - which happened to Thomas, how can we blame WIU. I never did blame WIU for the first year but did think causing JH to lose 2 years was excessive (especially after Thomas was already fired). Then, when JH realized he would lose 2 years of eligibilty, he enlisted the help of Bernie who did so to free up JH so he could then go play for his friend, RM. The problem is that JH's eyes got even wider when some blue bloods started showing interest again so JH's public lies to/via Bernie about the family/need to stay close to home have now been exposed. No wonder it was such a tough decision. Hence, my prior posts. This guy did much more than make a dumb decision by signing his LOI with WIU and then not coming clean with WIU (old history and can be excused b/c of his immaturity) but his lack of candor continues. To me, a guy who shows lack of candor over several years allows me to conclude he has no integrity. I don't want to cheer for immature guys with no integrity. Good riddens. SLU can do better than sign such guys.

[NashvilleBilliken]

It should be obvious to any reasonable person that if BS had offered him a scholly out of HS he would be a Billiken today.

I have to disagree with that, Kshoe. I think the reasonable person would say "who knows where the hell Josh would be today". He may be a Billiken, he may not. The fact is that since Josh was in high school, we now have a better coach, a better program (more $$), better players and better facilities. SLU is primed to be a major player (hopefully) and he turned us down. What's to say he wouldn't have left after his freshman year. Frankly, who's to say Josh would have committed to the Bills in the first place. I feel like everything you and I have read over the past few years could be BS...from all sides of the story. I don't think Roy is making any further assumptions than you are in this situation.

Edit - I'm sure you read the scout articles on Josh. The best thing he had to say about SLU recently was "it's homey". That doesn't sound like a kid has always wanted to be a Billiken

[Clock_Tower]

I have to disagree with that, Kshoe. I think the reasonable person would say "who knows where the hell Josh would be today". He may be a Billiken, he may not. The fact is that since Josh was in high school, we now have a better coach, a better program (more $$), better players and better facilities. SLU is primed to be a major player (hopefully) and he turned us down. What's to say he wouldn't have left after his freshman year. Frankly, who's to say Josh would have committed to the Bills in the first place. I feel like everything you and I have read over the past few years could be BS...from all sides of the story. I don't think Roy is making any further assumptions than you are in this situation.

Edit - I'm sure you read the scout articles on Josh. The best thing he had to say about SLU recently was "it's homey". That doesn't sound like a kid has always wanted to be a Billiken

Binding LOI's, honor, commitment, truthfulness all mean nothing to JH. When WIU was the only one interested, he wanted WIU. When thought he could do better, he gave the bird to WIU. When he thought a better school (SLU) would be interested, he wanted SLU. When he saw bigger name schools (KY) were interested, he wanted KY. Honestly, I believe that if Duke called this morning, he'd put Billy G. off for awhile probably go to Duke.