OT: New Establishments Opening Up Near Chaifetz/SLU

[Box and Won]

While construction crews are hard at work finishing up the new arena, some local restauranteurs have been busy opening up some cool new places for us to get our eat and drink on before and after next year's games.

Recently, the following new places have opened:

Pappy's Smokehouse - BBQ! - 3106 Olive:

http://www.pappyssmokehouse.com/

Buffalo Brewing Co. - microbrewery/restaurant - 3100 Olive:

http://www.buffalobrewingstl.com/

The Fountain - an old-time ice cream parlor with a liquor license! - 3037 Locust

Hopefully there will be even more by the time the arena opens.

[EastSide]

The new arena is going to do wonders for midtown and building a community around SLU's campus. It will be an upgrade from the oasis that SLU used to be in the middle of a rather desolate urban area.

[NextYearBill]

The new arena is going to do wonders for midtown and building a community around SLU's campus. It will be an upgrade from the oasis that SLU used to be in the middle of a rather desolate urban area.

Its gonna be harder to find some decent crack though.

[provos528]

SLU seems to be the spark in the downtown Renaissance.. The revival of the city could have been delayed or never happened if it left for the suburbs way back..

[davidnark]

The Buffalo Brewing Company particularly intrigues me. A month or so ago, I saw something on TV that suggested microbrew districts were going to be the next big destination tourist attraction, particularly with the increased interest in speciality beers among boomers and yuppies (akin to "wine countries"). At the time, I thought that the area in the city between the west loft district (currently anchored by the Tap Room) and midtown would be absolutely perfect as a microbrew district. The city already has a legitimate claim for the best brewing tradition in North America, and this part of town has the perfect infrastructure in place with an abundance of spacious warehouses, many of which are already being rennovated into restaurant spaces at street level. If this city was truly innovative and forward-thinking, it would put specific "microbrew" incentives in place to encourage this kind of district and would market the hell out of it to the rest of the country. If you could get a dozen micrbreweries within a few blocks, along with the very, very, very big brewery only a few miles away, you may have a destination attraction that most educated beer drinkers couldn't resist.

[Box and Won]

The Buffalo Brewing Company particularly intrigues me. A month or so ago, I saw something on TV that suggested microbrew districts were going to be the next big destination tourist attraction, particularly with the increased interest in speciality beers among boomers and yuppies (akin to "wine countries"). At the time, I thought that the area in the city between the west loft district (currently anchored by the Tap Room) and midtown would be absolutely perfect as a microbrew district. The city already has a legitimate claim for the best brewing tradition in North America, and this part of town has the perfect infrastructure in place with an abundance of spacious warehouses, many of which are already being rennovated into restaurant spaces at street level. If this city was truly innovative and forward-thinking, it would put specific "microbrew" incentives in place to encourage this kind of district and would market the hell out of it to the rest of the country. If you could get a dozen micrbreweries within a few blocks, along with the very, very, very big brewery only a few miles away, you may have a destination attraction that most educated beer drinkers couldn't resist.

Wanna open one up?

I agree with you completely - generally, when a city has a major producer of just about anything, that city will also be home to complementary businesses or even smaller competitors as entrepreneurs leave the big company to go off on their own. The result is a cluster of like businesses - take Silicon Valley or Wall Street, for example.

Here we have a massive brewery that employs lots of brewmasters and other people who are versed in fermentation/beer production, but relatively few microbreweries. I guess if I was a brewmaster at A-B, it would probably be tough to convince me to go out on my own, but still.

[Majerus Magic]

The Buffalo Brewing Company particularly intrigues me. A month or so ago, I saw something on TV that suggested microbrew districts were going to be the next big destination tourist attraction, particularly with the increased interest in speciality beers among boomers and yuppies (akin to "wine countries"). At the time, I thought that the area in the city between the west loft district (currently anchored by the Tap Room) and midtown would be absolutely perfect as a microbrew district. The city already has a legitimate claim for the best brewing tradition in North America, and this part of town has the perfect infrastructure in place with an abundance of spacious warehouses, many of which are already being rennovated into restaurant spaces at street level. If this city was truly innovative and forward-thinking, it would put specific "microbrew" incentives in place to encourage this kind of district and would market the hell out of it to the rest of the country. If you could get a dozen micrbreweries within a few blocks, along with the very, very, very big brewery only a few miles away, you may have an destination attraction that most educated beer drinkers couldn't resist.

Where can I sign up?

[provos528]

Did RM endorsed Pappy's?

[bonwich]

SLU seems to be the spark in the downtown Renaissance.. The revival of the city could have been delayed or never happened if it left for the suburbs way back..

Sorry, can't let this one go by unchallenged.

1) SLU isn't "downtown."

2) I only go back to 1965, but I'm reasonably sure SLU never seriously entertained "leaving for the suburbs."

3) SLU hasn't exactly sparked a revival in Grand Center.

4) Anyone who believes that athletic facilities are a driver of ancillary development hasn't been going to SLU (or Blues) games at Savvis or Rams games at the Dome for the past 10-15 years.

We now return you to your regular programming.

[davidnark]

Wanna open one up?

I agree with you completely - generally, when a city has a major producer of just about anything, that city will also be home to complementary businesses or even smaller competitors as entrepreneurs leave the big company to go off on their own. The result is a cluster of like businesses - take Silicon Valley or Wall Street, for example.

Here we have a massive brewery that employs lots of brewmasters and other people who are versed in fermentation/beer production, but relatively few microbreweries. I guess if I was a brewmaster at A-B, it would probably be tough to convince me to go out on my own, but still.

I currently have neither the time, nor the money, nor the expertise, but I would love to this kind of thing someday.

If this city or one of the many downtown development organizations (I can no longer keep them straight) were really motivated, I think it would be doable. It would have to take the lead in identifying and matching-up proprietors with sellers/landlords. More imporantly, they would have to develop some marketing and branding along the lines of "St. Louis Microbrew District" and would need to commit to a marketing campaign to support the growth. There are already two micrbrews in the district, if you could get the Trailhead Brewery, Morgan Street, O'Fallon Brewery, and/or other existing local breweries to exand to the district, you would already have the critical mass. The real value would be when a few new breweries joined the fray.

I guess I can just dream.

[Westy03]

I currently have neither the time, nor the money, nor the expertise, but I would love to this kind of thing someday.

If this city or one of the many downtown development organizations (I can no longer keep them straight) were really motivated, I think it would be doable. It would have to take the lead in identifying and matching-up proprietors with sellers/landlords. More imporantly, they would have to develop some marketing and branding along the lines of "St. Louis Microbrew District" and would need to commit to a marketing campaign to support the growth. There are already two micrbrews in the district, if you could get the Trailhead Brewery, Morgan Street, O'Fallon Brewery, and/or other existing local breweries to exand to the district, you would already have the critical mass. The real value would be when a few new breweries joined the fray.

I guess I can just dream.

I just wanted to add Square One Brewery in Lafeyette Square, I had dinner there a couple of weeks ago and the beer there was very good

[Box and Won]

I only go back to 1965, but I'm reasonably sure SLU never seriously entertained "leaving for the suburbs."

Is that one of those urban myths? When I was in college, I always heard that SLU was offered land near Queeny Park and that the trustees were in favor of a move, but Fr. Reinert shot the idea down.

[bonwich]

Is that one of those urban myths? When I was in college, I always heard that SLU was offered land near Queeny Park and that the trustees were in favor of a move, but Fr. Reinert shot the idea down.

The timeline for such a scenario just doesn't ring true to me. Reinert was prez from '49 to '72. I don't remember a ton about campus in the 1960s, but I do remember that soccer was played on campus, and Midtown was a whole lot more vibrant (Loew's; J-Hall was Rogers Hall, the female residence; Garivelli's; Woolworth's still there and bustling; etc.) The campus expanded across Grand starting in 1962 due to the gift from Mrs. Frost Fordyce. Now maybe there was talk back then of "moving to the suburbs," but Queeny Park was basically the boonies at that time and suburban development hadn't pushed a whole lot past Lindbergh. (Plus there would have been the whole issue of greatly separating the med school from the undergrad campus.)

Anyway, I can't find any reference to a potential move in the P-D archives. Perhaps others have additional data.

[davidnark]

Anyone who believes that athletic facilities are a driver of ancillary development hasn't been going to SLU (or Blues) games at Savvis or Rams games at the Dome for the past 10-15 years.

I know this is popular rhetoric among the anti-stadium funding crowd, but J Bucks downtown, Bernie Federko's downtown, Paddy O's downtown, the Bird's Nest, Al Robosky's, Danny Mac's, among others, would probably not be in business today if it weren't for the Cardinals and/or the Blues. Ask the businesses at Union Station how they felt about the hockey strike a few years ago.

[Willie Nelson]

meet me at that trill chinese food place past locust, bet we could find some

[slufanskip]

The Buffalo Brewing Company particularly intrigues me. A month or so ago, I saw something on TV that suggested microbrew districts were going to be the next big destination tourist attraction, particularly with the increased interest in speciality beers among boomers and yuppies (akin to "wine countries"). At the time, I thought that the area in the city between the west loft district (currently anchored by the Tap Room) and midtown would be absolutely perfect as a microbrew district. The city already has a legitimate claim for the best brewing tradition in North America, and this part of town has the perfect infrastructure in place with an abundance of spacious warehouses, many of which are already being rennovated into restaurant spaces at street level. If this city was truly innovative and forward-thinking, it would put specific "microbrew" incentives in place to encourage this kind of district and would market the hell out of it to the rest of the country. If you could get a dozen micrbreweries within a few blocks, along with the very, very, very big brewery only a few miles away, you may have a destination attraction that most educated beer drinkers couldn't resist.

That's a great idea ... I also read somewhere that a big new thing is the pairing of different beers with different foods by restaraunts.

[DoctorB]

it is no urban myth --sorry Mr. Bonwich you are mistaken on a couple counts.

SLU seriously entertained the idea of moving the whole kit and kaboodle to west county. Reinert was instrumental in having SLU staying in town. By the way, that was the right decision, in my view. He was one Gutsy Jesuit!

As for a revival in midtown, well, I think it is safe to say that this area is anchored by the university, and that whatever revival has ensued, is because of the school. The Superman building is populated by students, as is the Coronado and the Moolah Temple-- all 3 of these are serious projects costing millions of dollars. The Moolah remains an undiscovered gem in midtown. The revival may be slow but it is underway. I am not being too bullish on this revival idea but I am certainly seeing some things going on. Word has it that the plans for the corner lot at Lindell and Grand--long awaited-- will be really way out cool, and may even bring to campus a serious bookstore, with armchairs and lattes and everything, to within 4 blocks of my office. Nice place to stop as I trudge eastward daily to the Compton garage!

[Box and Won]

If Grand Center Inc. were to be disbanded, I think we'd see a LOT more development taking place.

I do really like this ultra-modern condo development that's planned for a vacant lot just north of campus though:

http://www.arthousestl.com/

[Clock_Tower]

Hope a revival is, in fact, on its way. SLU and the surrounding area could sure use it.

Bonwich. Enjoyed your article in the PD a month or two ago: restaurant and theater combinations by arts district. Along these lines, there will be no revival until it is possible to get a drink and bite to eat within walking distance of the Fox Theater/Powell Hall. Not asking for the area to resemble the theater district/Broadway in NY but I am relatively certain you can combine a drink/dinner with going to a show in more sophisticated and forward thinking cities such as Toledo or Effingham. Forget the comparisons to Chicago.

[bonwich]

I know this is popular rhetoric among the anti-stadium funding crowd, but J Bucks downtown, Bernie Federko's downtown, Paddy O's downtown, the Bird's Nest, Al Robosky's, Danny Mac's, among others, would probably not be in business today if it weren't for the Cardinals and/or the Blues. Ask the businesses at Union Station how they felt about the hockey strike a few years ago.

Thanks for proving my point, David. Bernie Federko's, the only bar/restaurant within sight of Kielvis, has been closed for several months -- and the location has failed at least twice in the past. The others you cite, save maybe J. Bucks, are 1) supported by Busch Stadium and 2) generally vacant save for ballgame nights, when they break even overall by charging 7 bucks for Budweiser to a captive audience. Moreover, new Busch has been open all of two years. I specifically cited Savtrade and the Dome, both of which have been open for more than a decade, and both of which have engendered precisely bupkiss in nearby development. (And if you think Union Station is doing well even now that there's hockey, you need to get over there more.)

SLU seriously entertained the idea of moving the whole kit and kaboodle to west county. Reinert was instrumental in having SLU staying in town. By the way, that was the right decision, in my view. He was one Gutsy Jesuit!

As for a revival in midtown, well, I think it is safe to say that this area is anchored by the university, and that whatever revival has ensued, is because of the school. The Superman building is populated by students, as is the Coronado and the Moolah Temple-- all 3 of these are serious projects costing millions of dollars. The Moolah remains an undiscovered gem in midtown. The revival may be slow but it is underway. I am not being too bullish on this revival idea but I am certainly seeing some things going on. Word has it that the plans for the corner lot at Lindell and Grand--long awaited-- will be really way out cool, and may even bring to campus a serious bookstore, with armchairs and lattes and everything, to within 4 blocks of my office. Nice place to stop as I trudge eastward daily to the Compton garage!

Sorry, Doc, I see no primary or secondary sources in your quote on Father Reinert. When did such "serious" discussion take place, who was on the board at the time, and where exactly was SLU considering moving?

And AG Edwards (Wachovia), which anchors the other side of Midtown, might take issue with you about causes and effects.

Further, the Superman building may be populated by students, but its ground (retail/restaurant) floors are still vacant years after its rehab. Again, I have no primary sources on this, but I did know someone in the administration who told me that SLU actively tried to have the Coronado demolished, and I've also heard that the Gills have never seen exactly eye to eye with the administration (nor do the current pioneering renovators of the Locust Avenue Business District).

You say "slow." I've been watching it for about 35 years, and I say "glacial."

[Box and Won]

Amrit Gill (developer of the Coronado) has publicly stated that he will not do any more projects in Grand Center - I can't remember if it's because of Biondi or because of Grand Center Inc.

Unfortunately, had Grand Center Inc. not torn down so many buildings in the district, the place would probably be hopping with students, young professionals, bohemian/artsy-types living there and businesses to serve them, the university, and arts patrons. Here are just a sample of the buildings we've lost:

[davidnark]

Amrit Gill (developer of the Coronado) has publicly stated that he will not do any more projects in Grand Center - I can't remember if it's because of Biondi or because of Grand Center Inc.

Unfortunately, had Grand Center Inc. not torn down so many buildings in the district, the place would probably be hopping with students, young professionals, bohemian/artsy-types living there and businesses to serve them, the university, and arts patrons.

Brian, how many of those buildings were lost before Grand Center, Inc. was a functioning organization? I understand the complaint, but weren't a lot of those buildings torn down 30 years ago before the current organization even existed?

I will take Biondi's bad (such as tearing down the old Grind and several buildings on the original proposed arena site) because he has done so much good for the school and Midtown. I still remember a midtown that had high-rise projects on the site of the current law school atrium and the current soccer practice field, as well as a crack/whorehouse hotel on the site of the current Parks college. Without Biondi's real estate aggressiveness, those problems may still exist. I also know that the urban development types criticize him for gating the university, but if I were responsible for protecting 10,000 students plus faculty and employees from the element that is still only a few short blocks away, I would feel obligated to do the exact same thing. Maybe ten years from now the gates can go down, but we aren't there yet. I am more mixed about Grand Center, Inc. I know the developers ***** and moan about Grand Center controlling all of the incremental financing incentives, but those are the exact same incentives that facilitated our new arena that will open in six weeks.

[davidnark]

Thanks for proving my point, David. Bernie Federko's, the only bar/restaurant within sight of Kielvis, has been closed for several months -- and the location has failed at least twice in the past. The others you cite, save maybe J. Bucks, are 1) supported by Busch Stadium and 2) generally vacant save for ballgame nights, when they break even overall by charging 7 bucks for Budweiser to a captive audience. Moreover, new Busch has been open all of two years. I specifically cited Savtrade and the Dome, both of which have been open for more than a decade, and both of which have engendered precisely bupkiss in nearby development. (And if you think Union Station is doing well even now that there's hockey, you need to get over there more.)

Joe, you can cite study after study to demonstrate that public financing doesn't spur development. In turn, I can cite real world examples of many facilities (mostly in the MLB) as evidence of the opposite. The studies that argue for or against tend to frame their hypothesis and data sets in a manner to support their intended argument. The reality, however, is that any facility that doesn't generate a critical mass of events and attendees will struggle to spur collateral development, and likewise any facility that achieves the critical mass will spur development. MLB stadiums often spur development because they have at least 81 events a year with 20,000+ people in attendance. An arena such as the Staples Center or Madison Square Garden that hosts events 300+ nights a year will also spur development. NFL stadiums typically won't because they only host a handful of events. By citing the Scottrade and the Dome but ignoring Busch Stadium, I suspect you agree with the above.

[Box and Won]

Brian, how many of those buildings were lost before Grand Center, Inc. was a functioning organization? I understand the complaint, but weren't a lot of those buildings torn down 30 years ago before the current organization even existed?

I will take Biondi's bad (such as tearing down the old Grind and several buildings on the original proposed arena site) because he has done so much good for the school and Midtown. I still remember a midtown that had high-rise projects on the site of the current law school atrium and the current soccer practice field, as well as a crack/whorehouse hotel on the site of the current Parks college. Without Biondi's real estate aggressiveness, those problems may still exist. I also know that the urban development types criticize him for gating the university, but if I were responsible for protecting 10,000 students plus faculty and employees from the element that is still only a few short blocks away, I would feel obligated to do the exact same thing. Maybe ten years from now the gates can go down, but we aren't there yet. I am more mixed about Grand Center, Inc. I know the developers ***** and moan about Grand Center controlling all of the incremental financing incentives, but those are the exact same incentives that facilitated our new arena that will open in six weeks.

That's certainly a good point concerning Grand Center, Inc.'s involvement in the demolition of the properties in the photos - I can't speak to whether they were responsible or not. The first photo was taken in 1981, the others in 1979, but I don't know when they were demolished. I do know that the GC area was officially blighted in 1974 and GC, Inc. has been around in some shape or form since 1981, so the organization might have had a hand in some (or all) of the demolitions. I do know, however, that GC, Inc. was behind the demolition of the Beaumont Building and the Raleigh Residence (blown up our senior year):

And this perfectly viable apartment building, which was just demolished a few months ago:

If the Superman/Continental and the Coronado buildings can be saved, there's no reason to think that these buildings wouldn't be popular student apartments if around today (and renovated). If only the tax credits for historic renovation would have been around when the Beaumont went down...

And GC, Inc. is not without its successes, but I still think that if left to develop organically instead of under a redevelopment corporation, it would be better off today.

As far as Biondi's moves go - I generally support what he's done, with a few exceptions. I remember all the section 8 housing and that flophouse of a motel that were on or next to campus freshman year, and SLU is way better off now than it was then. I also like the fact that he's created a true campus. I was bummed out when the Marina Building at Grand and Lindell was torn down, but I think there's a good chance that we'll see something very exciting go up in its place - thanks to Biondi.

[Taj79]

I haven't been on the SLU campus for about five or six years now. Lat time I visited, my kids were pretty young and not even close to college; now one's a colelge junior and the other will be a freshman next year. I could not believe the campus then in compariosn to when I was there in 1975 - 1988 (not all in school, although it seemed like it). It was physically not the place I had gone to school and frankly I was jealous.

One of our college crowd just went back with his high school senior last weekend who interviewed for acceptance. He could not believe that was the same place we all went to in the mid-70's. Whatever it is, it sure beats living in 210 Channing or in Laclede Town.

I knew a bohemian once. He turned into bonwich. I'm all for eliminating those types.