Majerus is now the lead story on stltoday.com

[brianstl]

Well, there is rarely a dull moment around the program.

http://www.stltoday.com/

[Postcard]

Well, there is rarely a dull moment around the program.

http://www.stltoday.com/

I don't think this is going away so quickly. Maybe we can bring Brad back to coach the rest of the season.

[saluki762]

For some reason the work firewall has stltoday blocked. Could someone paste the article or summarize it for me?

[brianstl]

I don't think this is going away so quickly. Maybe we can bring Brad back to coach the rest of the season.

One reason it may not go away quickly is that the media loves to go after Burke every chance they get. The media lives for these kind of stories. Another reason why is Burke enjoys putting himself in the spotlight as much as possible.

[Postcard]

One reason it may not go away quickly is that the media loves to go after Burke every chance they get. The media lives for these kind of stories. Another reason why is Burke enjoys putting himself in the spotlight as much as possible.

I guess he doesn't have any kids with cancer to pick on.

[jimbofive]

For some reason the work firewall has stltoday blocked. Could someone paste the article or summarize it for me?

Here you go.

Archbishop says Majerus should be disciplined

By Deirdre Shesgreen and Tom Timmerman

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

01/22/2008

St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke said this morning that St. Louis University basketball coach Rick Majerus should be disciplined over his public comments supporting abortion rights and stem cell research.

Majerus made his comments at a campaign appearance for Hillary Rodham Clinton on Saturday night during an interview with KMOV (Channel 4).

During an interview with the Post-Dispatch today in Washington, where Burke is attending the March for Life, he said the coach should be disciplined.

"It's not possible to be a Catholic and hold those positions," Burke said. "When you take a position in a Catholic university, you don't have to embrace everything the Catholic church teaches. But you can't make statements which call into question the identity and mission of the Catholic church."

The archbishop declined to offer specifics of what discipline Majerus should face. "I'm confident it (the university) will deal with the question of a public representative making declarations that are inconsistent with the Catholic faith." RELATED LINK

View video of Majerus from KMOV

Majerus made his comments to the TV station at the rally at McCluer North High School.

Burke declined to say if he thought Majerus should be fired, but added, "You can't have a Catholic university with one of its prominent staff making declarations" that are in conflict with the church.

Majerus is in his first year as the basketball coach at St. Louis University. University officials did not have an immediate comment.

Majerus, one of the winningest coaches in college basketball, was hired by SLU with much fanfare on April 30, 2007 as the school indicated an increased commitment to the program as it prepares to move into its new on-campus arena next season. Majerus is making $650,000 this year, a hefty sum by SLU standards.

His team, which has a record of 10-8, has struggled at times this season as it has made the transition to his style of play. SLU recently set an NCAA record by scoring just 20 points in a game against George Washington, the fewest points a Division I school has scored since the shot clock was installed in 1986. But a week later, SLU upset 23rd-ranked Rhode Island.

I think Burke needs a flaming doggie bomb left on his porch. God forbid anyone actually have an opinion. According to Burke, that's actually the case. What a turd.

[brianstl]

I guess he doesn't have any kids with cancer to pick on.

I am no fan of Burke, but that comment is pretty uncalled for.

[Band Legend]

I am no fan of Burke, but that comment is pretty uncalled for.

It is called for, in my opinion. Burke is a pox on the church, a sanctimonious windbag who is so concerned with canon law that he consistently misses the point on what social justice or positive action is. He was reviled in Wisconsin and is reviled by the majority of Catholics here. He is a grandstanding d-bag who is complicit in the church in America selling it's soul to the devil. He is so concerned with his righteous indignation that he would be willing to support a pro-war, pro-death penalty president who only uses the abortion issue as a political football. I'm sorry for the political commentary, but it has bled over into our basketball program.

[saluki762]

I am no fan of Burke, but that comment is pretty uncalled for.

Leadership like Burke is one of the reasons that I no longer consider myself Catholic. Much to the dismay of most of our families my wife and I did not have a Catholic Wedding and my daughter was not and future children will not be Baptized Catholic. Should they chose to become Catholic I will support them but many modern day Catholic leaders have me questioning everything I was taught for the first 22 yeas of my life.

[huzzah]

I guess he doesn't have any kids with cancer to pick on.

This is interesting from several points. First the Jesuits historically only answer to Rome, so that is a factor.

Second when the school took over land formerly called Laclede Towne, there was a legal challenge from the Masons. At that time the school argued, and successfully, that it is controlled by the Board, which is secular, so securing the Laclede Towne property did not violate separation of church and state.

Third, I am uncertain how much influence Burke has with Biondi. As you recall Thomas Eagleton was laid out at the College Church, not St. Louis Cathedral, and Rev. Biondi presided at the mass. The Eagleton family may have been at odds with some of Burke's views, but Fr. Biondi stepped in quite readily.

My guess is that St. Louis U will hold firm.

[Sheltiedave]

Two interesting things to note...

SLU received TIF $$$ for the new arena because the courts determined that SLU is governed by a secular board of directors, and is not ultimately a Jesuit Catholic university.

The second item is witnessing Burke publicly throwing Rickma under the bus, just as Rickma has his players at times. This once again illustrates that handling what should be private conversations almost always works better as private conversations. As a staunch Democrat whose father was a union leader in the north Midwest, it is certainly not a surprise to see Rickma advocating a Democrat for President, and that she would hold positions that differ from the Catholic church.

If Burke wants Rickma to receive religious punishment, then Burke is the responsible authority to do such. If Burke wants Biondi to punish Rickma as a tenet of employment with Saint Louis University, that is a violation of state and federal employment law. The event was off school property, during non-work hours, and did not reflect negatively on the school or its employees.

Burke seems to spend a lot of time fretting about schisms and grave sin and press exposure, and very little time sheparding his flock.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I can't believe this is a story. A bball coach makes a comment and the arch bishop has nothing better to do than make it a media war. Wow. I don't know much at all about Burke, but it sounds like he needs to find something better to do.

That being said, i think it's pretty dramatic for those people on here claiming they are no longer Catholic due to this guy or similiar ones. Obviously there was a lot more to it than what a bishop says. Being Catholic is about your faith in God and the transfiguration of Jesus Christ.

[SluSignGuy]

Interesting thing in the article

Majerus is making $650,000 this year, a hefty sum by SLU standards.

Have we ever seen this figure before?

[saluki762]

I can't believe this is a story. A bball coach makes a comment and the arch bishop has nothing better to do than make it a media war. Wow. I don't know much at all about Burke, but it sounds like he needs to find something better to do.

That being said, i think it's pretty dramatic for those people on here claiming they are no longer Catholic due to this guy or similiar ones. Obviously there was a lot more to it than what a bishop says. Being Catholic is about your faith in God and the transfiguration of Jesus Christ.

Many other reason's as just opposed to Burke contribute to this thought. My views on many things have changed in the last 8 years since leaving SLU. I have evolved as every inteligent being does. My evolution as a person has seen me drift away from the church. I do not fault anyone who believe's strongly in their Catholic faith as faith is an important part of many people's lives. I just presently find myself at odd's with a lot of church doctrine now days. I could see myself returning to the church someday as my views are continuously evolving as the church should be. I could go on forever but this is a Billikens boards and my views have nothing to do with the situation at hand.

[moytoy12]

I am no fan of Burke, but that comment is pretty uncalled for.

At the very least, the Catholic Church and those associated with it deserve whatever vitriolic comments fly their way.

[bonwich]

That being said, i think it's pretty dramatic for those people on here claiming they are no longer Catholic due to this guy or similiar ones. Obviously there was a lot more to it than what a bishop says. Being Catholic is about your faith in God and the transfiguration of Jesus Christ.

You may want to read up on your canon law:

Can. 204 §1 Christ’s faithful are those who, since they are incorporated into Christ through baptism, are constituted the people of God. For this reason they participate in their own way in the priestly, prophetic and kingly office of Christ. They are called, each according to his or her particular condition, to exercise the mission which God entrusted to the Church to fulfil in the world.

§2 This Church, established and ordered in this world as a society, subsists in the catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him.

Can. 205 Those baptised are in full communion with the catholic Church here on earth who are joined with Christ in his visible body, through the bonds of profession of faith, the sacraments and ecclesiastical governance.

___

As an American and a free human being, you have full right to claim anything about what is or isn't a Catholic. In the eyes of the Church, however, in anything that's called "Catholic," you don't even have the right to disagree.

[NashvilleBilliken]

At the very least, the Catholic Church and those associated with it deserve whatever vitriolic comments fly their way.

"At the very least"? Yeah, those damn Catholics. The world would me so much better without them. Who needs them and the billions of dollars of charity they do every year. Give me a break. Since the middle ages, the Catholic church has done more good world wide than any other organization. They are slow to adapt to new techonology and some clergy are more conservative than others. But saying my priest down the street DESERVES "whatever vitrolic comments fly their way", when I've seen what the man does in the community, isn't right.

Ok, sorry. I'll get off the religious soapbox. I'm barely a practicing Catholic. I just think it's ridiculous that due to stances on stem cells and abortion (two VERY new topics), people think the Church is some evil being that we would be better off without. Morals in this country have pretty much ceased to exist. I like that they are there at least making people think about the moral and ethical repercussions of there actions.

[Postcard]

You may want to read up on your canon law:

Can. 204 §1 Christ’s faithful are those who, since they are incorporated into Christ through baptism, are constituted the people of God. For this reason they participate in their own way in the priestly, prophetic and kingly office of Christ. They are called, each according to his or her particular condition, to exercise the mission which God entrusted to the Church to fulfil in the world.

§2 This Church, established and ordered in this world as a society, subsists in the catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him.

Can. 205 Those baptised are in full communion with the catholic Church here on earth who are joined with Christ in his visible body, through the bonds of profession of faith, the sacraments and ecclesiastical governance.

___

As an American and a free human being, you have full right to claim anything about what is or isn't a Catholic. In the eyes of the Church, however, in anything that's called "Catholic," you don't even have the right to disagree.

Good point. I have less a problem with the message Burke tries to convey but a real problem with how and when he chooses to get that message across.

Does anyone know if RM is a regular church goer? Perhaps Burke will suggest to Biondi that he not be offered communion at SLU until he changes his mind on abortion and stem cell.

[Box and Won]

Updated on STLToday:

A spokesman for the university, Jeff Fowler, said Majerus' comments were not related to his role at the university.

"Rick's comments were his own personal view. They were made at an event he did not attend as a university representative," Fowler said. "It was his own personal visit to the rally. The comments were his, he was not speaking for the university in whatever comments he made to Channel 4."

[NashvilleBilliken]

You may want to read up on your canon law:

Can. 204 §1 Christ’s faithful are those who, since they are incorporated into Christ through baptism, are constituted the people of God. For this reason they participate in their own way in the priestly, prophetic and kingly office of Christ. They are called, each according to his or her particular condition, to exercise the mission which God entrusted to the Church to fulfil in the world.

§2 This Church, established and ordered in this world as a society, subsists in the catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him.

Can. 205 Those baptised are in full communion with the catholic Church here on earth who are joined with Christ in his visible body, through the bonds of profession of faith, the sacraments and ecclesiastical governance.

___

As an American and a free human being, you have full right to claim anything about what is or isn't a Catholic. In the eyes of the Church, however, in anything that's called "Catholic," you don't even have the right to disagree.

LOL...I didn't think soembody would be bringing out a bible....but I have over a decade of Catholic schooling, so I'll play.

Disagreeing with the Church and disagreeing with a man are two different issues. A priest in fallable. The pope is infallable. It appears from this thread that people upset with the way Burke acts and his attitude toward others. And I'm sure that the law of the church has much to do with it as well, but that is not the context of this thread or my response.

[brianstl]

It is called for, in my opinion. Burke is a pox on the church, a sanctimonious windbag who is so concerned with canon law that he consistently misses the point on what social justice or positive action is. He was reviled in Wisconsin and is reviled by the majority of Catholics here. He is a grandstanding d-bag who is complicit in the church in America selling it's soul to the devil. He is so concerned with his righteous indignation that he would be willing to support a pro-war, pro-death penalty president who only uses the abortion issue as a political football. I'm sorry for the political commentary, but it has bled over into our basketball program.

Leadership like Burke is one of the reasons that I no longer consider myself Catholic. Much to the dismay of most of our families my wife and I did not have a Catholic Wedding and my daughter was not and future children will not be Baptized Catholic. Should they chose to become Catholic I will support them but many modern day Catholic leaders have me questioning everything I was taught for the first 22 yeas of my life.

At the very least, the Catholic Church and those associated with it deserve whatever vitriolic comments fly their way.

Burke does not deserve to be accused of picking on kids with cancer. Call him a granstander, a fool, or a jerk. Do not accuse him of something he hasn't done. It hurts your argument.

[bonwich]

LOL...I didn't think soembody would be bringing out a bible....but I have over a decade of Catholic schooling, so I'll play.

Disagreeing with the Church and disagreeing with a man are two different issues. A priest is fallable. The pope is infallable. It appears from this thread that people upset with the way Burke acts and his attitude toward others. And I'm sure that the law of the church has much to do with it as well, but that is not the context of this thread or my response.

You really do need to add the whole sentence. The Pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals. Even Holy Mother Church recognizes that he's perfectly capable of using the wrong fork at dinner -- or leaving the seat up if nature calls and he happens to be visiting a convent.

But you really miss the whole crux, so to speak, of the biscuit. Disagreeing with Burke -- in specific matters such as Majerus on abortion or my fine Polish brethren on St. Stan's -- is disagreeing with the Church -- Period. If you're a Catholic, that's all there is. If you disagree, you're not a Catholic, by explicit Catholic teaching and law. Ironically, those people out here who have been saying that, for these reasons, they're no longer Catholic, are probably truer to Catholic doctrine than those arguing the other way.

[Postcard]

Burke does not deserve to be accused of picking on kids with cancer. Call him a granstander, a fool, or a jerk. Do not accuse him of something he hasn't done. It hurts your argument.

Ok, you're right. He wasn't down at Children's Hospital giving wedgies to kids in the cancer wing. He did however make an ass of himself and draw attention away from a benefit show the hospital was having to benefit sick kids. He was basically implying that Catholics should not support an institution that would have as their guest a person like Sheryl Crow who's beliefs are contradictory to the church. So he could have played role in people withhold their monetary support of kids with cancer. I guess that's not picking on them. I guess he was blessing them.

[moytoy12]

"At the very least"? Yeah, those damn Catholics. The world would me so much better without them. Who needs them and the billions of dollars of charity they do every year. Give me a break. Since the middle ages, the Catholic church has done more good world wide than any other organization. They are slow to adapt to new techonology and some clergy are more conservative than others. But saying my priest down the street DESERVES "whatever vitrolic comments fly their way", when I've seen what the man does in the community, isn't right.

You're damn right. I don't know if the world would be a better place without them, but I know Catholics (and the Jesuits in particular) had a hell of a time killing, raping and generally destroying native populations. But I guess that's ok since now the Catholic missions return the scene of the crime to spread their charity. But that happened a long time ago, it doesn't count.

Your priest down the street does deserve whatever vitriolic comments fly his way (can't be a her...right?). Where was that priest when the Catholic Church was (and probably still is) having its way with all the little boys. For those acts alone, the Church deserves whatever nasty rhetoric flows its way. But I guess that doesn't really matter now because i'm sure those fellas have confessed and said a couple of hail marys and all is forgotten.

Let's not even start with the corruption of the Catholic Church that has continued through to the present time.

I guess the means justify the ends though.

Ok, sorry. I'll get off the religious soapbox. I'm barely a practicing Catholic. I just think it's ridiculous that due to stances on stem cells and abortion (two VERY new topics), people think the Church is some evil being that we would be better off without. Morals in this country have pretty much ceased to exist. I like that they are there at least making people think about the moral and ethical repercussions of there actions.

LOL. Come on Nash, "morals in this country have pretty much ceased to exist"? Seriously. This is your argument?

[Billiken Rich]

"At the very least"? Yeah, those damn Catholics. The world would me so much better without them. Who needs them and the billions of dollars of charity they do every year. Give me a break. Since the middle ages, the Catholic church has done more good world wide than any other organization. They are slow to adapt to new techonology and some clergy are more conservative than others. But saying my priest down the street DESERVES "whatever vitrolic comments fly their way", when I've seen what the man does in the community, isn't right.

Ok, sorry. I'll get off the religious soapbox. I'm barely a practicing Catholic. I just think it's ridiculous that due to stances on stem cells and abortion (two VERY new topics), people think the Church is some evil being that we would be better off without. Morals in this country have pretty much ceased to exist. I like that they are there at least making people think about the moral and ethical repercussions of there actions.

Despite my rep, I do often defend the Catholic Church on those very grounds. It is really hard though with a paleo-catholic, semi-neandrathal like Burke. I like Jamie Allmon's morning show alot and his defence of Burke on the St. Stan's issue is convincing to me but those predisposed to hate and mistrust are going to regardless. Burke and his ilk make defending the church so much more difficult.