My Thoughts

[NashvilleBilliken]

After watching the game last night, I have a somewhat different perspective on this team and the players.

First off, I REALLY don't think coaching is the problem. We are not a good team and really don't have any good players. I've seen SLU twice this year, but have watched a ton of games on ESPN/CBS/Fox/whatever. Rarely (if ever) have I seen a team that seems as untalented as this one. Even Kevin and Tommie. They were spectacular freshman. Pretty good sophmores. And now seem to be mediocre juniors. And I'm being serious. We talk about how good these guys are, but how good are they...really? Star players or all-conference players don't have games like these. They don't let their team score 39 pts. They don't have "confidence problems" for an entire season. Players have off nights or get shut down....thats part of the territory. But has any of our "star players" dropped 20 pts yet? I don't think so, but please correct me. I'm being 100% serious when I say I think Luke Meyer may be our best player. He seems to actually have nut sack and play to win. When we need something, who's there? That's right, Luke. When nobody can hit a shot, Luke is the one who bails us out. Luke gets key rebounds.

Last night, I thought there were several time when the offense was really clicking. Crisp passes, nice cuts, open shots. The results? A pass out of bounds, a bobble catch out of bounds, lots of blocks....and usually a miss if a shot was actually fired.

This is a little rough, but I truly believe it. I have Vandy season tickets. I watched a tiny, no-name school called South Alabama come in and take Vandy (7-0) to two over times. They were small and mildly athletic. But they came out, played hard, and had confidence in themselves. They took Vandy to double OT before finally being overcome. Our team doesn't have ANY confidence. We might as well have a bunch of chicks on this team because these guys just don't have it.

[Majerus Magic]

After watching the game last night, I have a somewhat different perspective on this team and the players.

First off, I REALLY don't think coaching is the problem. We are not a good team and really don't have any good players. I've seen SLU twice this year, but have watched a ton of games on ESPN/CBS/Fox/whatever. Rarely (if ever) have I seen a team that seems as untalented as this one. Even Kevin and Tommie. They were spectacular freshman. Pretty good sophmores. And now seem to be mediocre juniors. And I'm being serious. We talk about how good these guys are, but how good are they...really? Star players or all-conference players don't have games like these. They don't let their team score 39 pts. They don't have "confidence problems" for an entire season. Players have off nights or get shut down....thats part of the territory. But has any of our "star players" dropped 20 pts yet? I don't think so, but please correct me. I'm being 100% serious when I say I think Luke Meyer may be our best player. He seems to actually have nut sack and play to win. When we need something, who's there? That's right, Luke. When nobody can hit a shot, Luke is the one who bails us out. Luke gets key rebounds.

Last night, I thought there were several time when the offense was really clicking. Crisp passes, nice cuts, open shots. The results? A pass out of bounds, a bobble catch out of bounds, lots of blocks....and usually a miss if a shot was actually fired.

This is a little rough, but I truly believe it. I have Vandy season tickets. I watched a tiny, no-name school called South Alabama come in and take Vandy (7-0) to two over times. They were small and mildly athletic. But they came out, played hard, and had confidence in themselves. They took Vandy to double OT before finally being overcome. Our team doesn't have ANY confidence. We might as well have a bunch of chicks on this team because these guys just don't have it.

I don't know about Luke being our best player, but I have always thought that TL and KL were over hyped. They were victims of circumstance being All Metro players and staying home to play for their home town team. But honestly, who else were they going to play for? Illinois?UNLV? On those teams they would be bench role players, but here they are expected to be stars.

[billiken_roy]

confidence? what is confidence? where does that come from? inspiring coaches maybe? players that love their coaches and will kill and overachieve for them?

[JaleJarr]

I don't know about Luke being our best player, but I have always thought that TL and KL were over hyped. They were victims of circumstance being All Metro players and staying home to play for their home town team. But honestly, who else were they going to play for? Illinois?UNLV? On those teams they would be bench role players, but here they are expected to be stars.

Very astute observation. I couldn't agree more on Tommie being overhyped.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21165960/

After the top 10 small forwards are listed look at the the other overhyped names in the section Almost, not quite

[p diddy]

I don't know about Luke being our best player, but I have always thought that TL and KL were over hyped. They were victims of circumstance being All Metro players and staying home to play for their home town team. But honestly, who else were they going to play for? Illinois?UNLV? On those teams they would be bench role players, but here they are expected to be stars.

I heard Billiken fans say the same thing about Erwin Claggett and Scott Highmark after their first two years at SLU when the Bills went 5-23 and 12-17 and won a total of one conference game in two years. These were two overhyped players who weren't very good to begin with. Gentlemen, you are not a bad player if you are on the verge of scoring your 1,000th point in you career early in your junior year while playing a highly competitive division i schedule. Just because these young men are struggling right now, you have no right to attack them like this after what you have seen them accomplish in the two previous years. I'm going to hold you clowns to this statements for the rest of their careers. If they turn it around and finish their careers in style, i'm going to be the one in your face reminded you at every turn that you were the ones who said they are nothing more than bench role players. You are stuck with that.

I never heard those statements come from you guys before, but the moment they face some adversity, all of the sudden you always thought they are overhyped. That is what I call a coward. If you always felt that way about TL and KL, you should have voiced it, the moment they signed and not wait until they struggle for a period of time. They've done their part for the past two years. The problem is that, we've failed to follow up and recruit more good players to play with them.

shame on you for jumping off the ship. in my book, you're off for good.

bad boyz for life

[Billikan]

I heard Billiken fans say the same thing about Erwin Claggett and Scott Highmark after their first two years at SLU when the Bills went 5-23 and 12-17 and won a total of one conference game in two years. These were two overhyped players who weren't very good to begin with. Gentlemen, you are not a bad player if you are on the verge of scoring your 1,000th point in you career early in your junior year while playing a highly competitive division i schedule. Just because these young men are struggling right now, you have no right to attack them like this after what you have seen them accomplish in the two previous years. I'm going to hold you clowns to this statements for the rest of their careers. If they turn it around and finish their careers in style, i'm going to be the one in your face reminded you at every turn that you were the ones who said they are nothing more than bench role players. You are stuck with that.

I never heard those statements come from you guys before, but the moment they face some adversity, all of the sudden you always thought they are overhyped. That is what I call a coward. If you always felt that way about TL and KL, you should have voiced it, the moment they signed and not wait until they struggle for a period of time. They've done their part for the past two years. The problem is that, we've failed to follow up and recruit more good players to play with them.

shame on you for jumping off the ship. in my book, you're off for good.

bad boyz for life

I could not have said it better. This attack the players mentality has now infected a lot of the fans and it comes from one source--our head coach.

[Majerus Magic]

Very astute observation. I couldn't agree more on Tommie being overhyped.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21165960/

After the top 10 small forwards are listed look at the the other overhyped names in the section Almost, not quite

Jalejarr,

I'm not sure what you mean when you said look at the other over hyped names but I was not trying to demean Tommie in anyway. I was pointing out that he has been expected to be the savior but that role is probably not for him.

[billiken_roy]

I don't know about Luke being our best player, but I have always thought that TL and KL were over hyped. They were victims of circumstance being All Metro players and staying home to play for their home town team. But honestly, who else were they going to play for? Illinois?UNLV? On those teams they would be bench role players, but here they are expected to be stars.

illinois would love to have lisch and liddell right now to go along with pruitt and randle. both would be starters and the stars of illinois.

same at unlv. they would be the best two players on unlv's team.

[brianstl]

illinois would love to have lisch and liddell right now to go along with pruitt and randle. both would be starters and the stars of illinois.

same at unlv. they would be the best two players on unlv's team.

I don't think Tommie would start on the Illini. Weber would have just as many problems with the way Tommie plays the game as RM does. He was not coached well before he got to this level and outside of helping him improve his shot, Brad didn't do crap to improve TL3 game. Tommie has no idea how to play the game properly.

[3star_recruit]

Brian, how long have you felt this way and why is this the first time we're hearing about it?

[Majerus Magic]

Tommie has no idea how to play the game properly.

Anyone see the Jim Cramer meltdown?

[JaleJarr]

I'm not sure what you mean when you said look at the other over hyped names but I was not trying to demean Tommie in anyway. I was pointing out that he has been expected to be the savior but that role is probably not for him.

Your point about Tommie being overhyped is what I was attacking. For a player to have experienced only modest success in terms of team winning %, and without the benefit of having NCAA or NIT play Tommie has made a name for himself. Likewise for Kevin. Now this has nothing to do with Majerus but players are for the most part successful based on the talent around him.

[aj_arete]

Pdiddy, it won't matter. People ignore what they've said in the past and never acknowledge errors in judgment. I can't believe how many people are turning on this team. It's ridiculous to suggest that Lisch and Liddell can't play. They're just acclimating to a new system. And yes, it could be until January or February, before it clicks for them. While Majerus uses questionable tactics, such as publicly criticizing players, he'll turn things around if he's given enough time.

While Soderberg had obvious deficiencies in recruiting, he would be leading this team to more victories this year. He was building a team geared to be more up-tempo and would be utilizing a more athletic team than what Majerus is fielding. Lisch and Liddell would have thrived this year and they could have been a top level A-10 team because their lack of size would have been minimized in this conference.

Having said that, I recognize that Majerus will build a team in his own image and system and in the LONG run will achieve more benefits than Soderberg. My question is will he be around for the long haul.

[brianstl]

Brian, how long have you felt this way and why is this the first time we're hearing about it?

I am a big fan and fans tend to overlook stuff. We don't see the faults in are own players games, especailly players as talented as Tommie. I just don't think has really has any clue how to play in a offense. I don't think any of us ever noticed it when Brad was here because Brad didn't really run much of an offense. This isn't TL3's fault. He has a great feel for the game, but Brad just let him develop too many bad habits.

[Majerus Magic]

Pdiddy, it won't matter. People ignore what they've said in the past and never acknowledge errors in judgment. I can't believe how many people are turning on this team. It's ridiculous to suggest that Lisch and Liddell can't play. They're just acclimating to a new system. And yes, it could be until January or February, before it clicks for them. While Majerus uses questionable tactics, such as publicly criticizing players, he'll turn things around if he's given enough time.

While Soderberg had obvious deficiencies in recruiting, he would be leading this team to more victories this year. He was building a team geared to be more up-tempo and would be utilizing a more athletic team than what Majerus is fielding. Lisch and Liddell would have thrived this year and they could have been a top level A-10 team because their lack of size would have been minimized in this conference.

Having said that, I recognize that Majerus will build a team in his own image and system and in the LONG run will achieve more benefits than Soderberg. My question is will he be around for the long haul.

Soderberg had five years to get something going. He couldn't do it, that is why he is gone.

[brianstl]

While Soderberg had obvious deficiencies in recruiting, he would be leading this team to more victories this year. He was building a team geared to be more up-tempo and would be utilizing a more athletic team than what Majerus is fielding. Lisch and Liddell would have thrived this year and they could have been a top level A-10 team because their lack of size would have been minimized in this conference.

You can't play up-tempo if you don't have enough players to play up-tempo.

[NashvilleBilliken]

Pdiddy and JaleJarr...I'm not sure if you were replying to me or somebody else on this thread.

First off, I in no way am trying to insult the players. They are still SLU players. I have never insulted a SLU player and I never will. For you to say I'm off the ship and can never come back on is bull****. I don't care who you are diddy...i've been following this team with a microscope for the past decade and you have no right to say crap like that.

I said Luke is our best player right now and I stand by that. Tommie and Kevin have some great talent, but I don't see this NBA/all conference thing anymore. Have either of these players ever "willed us to victory"? I can't remember a time, but I could certianly be wrong (please point it out to me). Tommie scored 20+ in like 6 straight games. That is awesome...but how many of those games did we lose? To me, a star is not only a prolific scorer, but somebody who makes the team better. Somebody who refuses to lose. Somebody who takes the team on their back and gets the job done. Somebody who says, we can't buy a bucket so I'm gonna attack, I'm gonna get physical, and I ain't taking anymore crap. Luke Meyer does that. Marquee Perry did that. Do our current stars do that? That's an honest question I'd like you guys to answer.

And let me re-iterate that I'm not trying to insult or downplay anything our guys have done. They are two excellent basketball players. We would be in big trouble without them. But, I really just don't see all the greatness that you guys do. Please share. And please "shove this in my face" in the future. I would love nothing more than two outstanding induviduals to become superstars and lead my Billikens to the promised land.

[jimbofive]

I said Luke is our best player right now and I stand by that. Tommie and Kevin have some great talent, but I don't see this NBA/all conference thing anymore. Have either of these players ever "willed us to victory"? I can't remember a time, but I could certianly be wrong (please point it out to me). Tommie scored 20+ in like 6 straight games. That is awesome...but how many of those games did we lose? To me, a star is not only a prolific scorer, but somebody who makes the team better. Somebody who refuses to lose. Somebody who takes the team on their back and gets the job done. Somebody who says, we can't buy a bucket so I'm gonna attack, I'm gonna get physical, and I ain't taking anymore crap. Luke Meyer does that. Marquee Perry did that. Do our current stars do that? That's an honest question I'd like you guys to answer.

There was one play late in the 2nd half last night where Luke had the ball in the right corner, out past the 3-point line. He threw a great pump fake, got his man up in the air and went left for an easy 15- to 17-footer, his bread and butter. Then, inexplicably, he went to the rack and took on 3 defenders, possibly drawing a foul, but missing the hard layup nonetheless. At first, I was upset as I knew that Luke probably had a better chance to score on the wide open mid-range jumper. But then I realized exactly what he was thinking, and applauded the move, if only to myself. He knew his team was gutless at that point and even though the game was out of reach, he wanted to show BC that we weren't scared, and take it to the rack hard, maybe even for the dunk. He's done it before, but never when he was so wide open for the easy shot. THAT'S what makes him a leader, and that's the one thing that I ONE HUNDRED PERCENT agree w/ Majerus on - we need guys with do or die attitudes, with a lust for the game, who love hard fouls, both giving and receiving, and who when given the chance between 2 easy points or a potential game-changing, team-inspiring play, always go big, or go home.

Tommie and Kevin have it in them, and they are more talented than Luke is. But Majerus has to find how to get it out of them. And they eventually have to embrace it, and accept nothing less.

[kwyjibo]

I watched a tiny, no-name school called South Alabama come in and take Vandy (7-0) to two over times. They were small and mildly athletic. But they came out, played hard, and had confidence in themselves.

South Alabama struggled against Houston Baptist (USA did eke out a close one though), a team SLU beat by 35.

I won't comment much on your thoughts on Tommie, Kevin and Luke except to say I disagree with your assessment--obviously I completely disagree in the long run but even particularly last night. I can only assume you were only watching one end of the court. Kevin played some really great 1-on-1 defense last night and Tommie looked good on D at times as well. Luke was fine on the perimeter but he got eaten alive inside (not really his fault on size but he got pushed around too easily as well).

[NashvilleBilliken]

South Alabama struggled against Houston Baptist (USA did eke out a close one though), a team SLU beat by 35.

I won't comment much on your thoughts on Tommie, Kevin and Luke except to say I disagree with your assessment--obviously I completely disagree in the long run but even particularly last night. I can only assume you were only watching one end of the court. Kevin played some really great 1-on-1 defense last night and Tommie looked good on D at times as well. Luke was fine on the perimeter but he got eaten alive inside (not really his fault on size but he got pushed around too easily as well).

I agree. I thought the defense last night was pretty good except for a few expected lapses. I think it may have been the best I've ever seen Tommie play D.

I know everybody thinks I'm a dumb a-hole right now. But I would very much like to be persuaded otherwise. If anybody can answer my questions, I'd be happy to listen. When have our guys pulled a Tyler Hansbrough, an Adam Morrison, a JJ Reddick, a Marquee Perry? When have they said "I'm gonna carry this team and you just try to stop me...i dare you". That is what makes a superstar.

[billiken_roy]

I agree. I thought the defense last night was pretty good except for a few expected lapses. I think it may have been the best I've ever seen Tommie play D.

I know everybody thinks I'm a dumb a-hole right now. But I would very much like to be persuaded otherwise. If anybody can answer my questions, I'd be happy to listen. When have our guys pulled a Tyler Hansbrough, an Adam Morrison, a JJ Reddick, a Marquee Perry? When have they said "I'm gonna carry this team and you just try to stop me...i dare you". That is what makes a superstar.

i agree neither lisch nor liddell is on the same level with tyler hansborough (who will likely be the poy in college basketball this year) or adam morrison (who is a past poy). as to comparing him to marque, well as a sophomore, perry wasnt doing that yet either. we dont know what lisch and liddell will do next year as a senior. but i will bet you that if liddell and lisch are still at slu april 2009, they will have more points and alcolodes than marque perry had when perry finished his career. and i am a huge marque fan.

[JaleJarr]

Pdiddy and JaleJarr...I'm not sure if you were replying to me or somebody else on this thread.

No. I was responding to the Billiken from the future, not Nashville

[NashvilleBilliken]

Pdiddy and JaleJarr...I'm not sure if you were replying to me or somebody else on this thread.

No. I was responding to the Billiken from the future, not Nashville

Ok. Well, I wasn't the one who called Kevin or Tommie role players, so I thought you were possibly responding to that. Guess not.

Roy, those are good points. It sounds like we pretty much agree then. Kevin and Tommie are good players on a mediocre team. That's all I was saying. People act like they ARE POY type material. People seem to think there is no way we should lose with those two guys. I disagreed. Poor wording, I guess.