billiken_roy Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I'm Sorry I've been watching this and I can't take it anymore. Billiken Roy you seem to talk about the honor and integrity of Roundtree when you have NO IDEA how the system works. Lowery, like any coach brings in a 16 year old kid and F**king puts on a show. This kid sees this large area built just for him to play in, the coach tells him everything he wants to hear and with stars in his eyes commits to SIU. Now he's looking around and questioning if he made the right decision for him. But wait, Billiken Roy and the moral police come in and say shame on you. You are not a man of God, you must keep your word that you made as a teenager. Roundtree you MUST stay at a place that you don't want to be at. Well screw you Billiken Roy!!! I hope this kid does come SLU and light up the area, just to piss you off. If a kid decommits then he is FAIR game. This isn't breaking any rules and if Lowery is any type of coach he knows this. I'm sorry if I talked out of place being an outsider, but I thought SLU wanted to be a big time program. we need more boosters like TJ! TJ is a true spokesman for the way it should be. good for you TJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 cheeseman, first, i have no sympathy for weber. not a favorite of mine by anymeans. i do not like sampson because he is a cheater. cheated and caught at oklahoma and then runs from the institutional penalties to indiana and leaves oklahoma in straights. by all indications he indeed did ignore gordon's verbal and you are correct on the surface that indeed isnt the same thing as roundtree. another example of unethical behavior of sampson. that said, if roundtree ends up elsewhere, we shall see if the rest of the basketball world doesnt hold it against the new destination program. whether justified or not, i am betting it indeed will happen. the inference will be the new school indeed got involved. look at the beasley incident. he was verballed to charlotte, and when the asst coach at charlotte took huggins asst offer beasley decommitted and then followed that asst coach to k-state. huggy took all kinds of hell for it even though it was beasley that made the first public declaration to leave charlotte. the one thing we agree on is roundtree shouldnt have jumped in february when he did. my suspicions are that roundtree was talked into that by a 3rd party. the crime in all this is that the 3rd party is nowhere around to accept blame for what he did in the form of bad advice to torres 6-7 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 look at the beasley incident. he was verballed to charlotte, and when the asst coach at charlotte took huggins asst offer beasley decommitted and then followed that asst coach to k-state. huggy took all kinds of hell for it even though it was beasley that made the first public declaration to leave charlotte. Yeah, but even that's a tough comparison. I think people felt it was a crummy deal for Charlotte, because it "seemed" (and probably was) that Huggins was luring Beasley by using the assistant coach, after he had already verballed. I think this drum has been beat to death. It's pretty clear that Roy doesn't want us going after anybody that's already verballed, even if they've withdrawn. I do agree that there is a fine line, but in this case, I have no problem with us giving the kid a call. He withdrew his verbal, and to my knowledge, we had nothing to do with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Froman Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 If the kid has withdrawn his verbal, SIU has every right to recruit him. If the Illini kid Gordon? had withdrawn his verbal before being recruited by Indiana, Illinois would have nothing to be upset about. They are 2 different scenarios. agree with skip. It was the kid who withdrew his verbal and therefore has invited other coaches to recruit him. He's on the open market now, unlike Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Several comments about this thread. 1. If a kid decommits without any pressure from SLU or any school for that matter then he is fair game. After all many on this board questioned why Roundtree committed so early and wondered if he might have been better served to simply wait until the spring or summer as most do. What he has done at this point is simply do what many suggested. 2. Lowery would never call another coach about Roundtree - he is still trying to get the kid to sign with SIU. He is not going to give any school any help. Therefore, SLU or any school for that matter will have to decide if they want him or not and proceed accordingly. 3. The Gordon issue is completely different. From what had been reported, Sampson contacted Gordon and encouraged him to drop his verbal to IL. Previous to Sampson coming to IN, Gordon wanted to go to IN but the whole Price thing turned him off one way or another. Once Price left and Sampson came then Gordon was a target for Sampson. If Sampson does not call Gordon maybe he goes to IL or maybe he contacts IN - who knows. 4. As far as Weber is concerned, I have no sorry feelings for him since he did with Lisch what Sampson did with Gordon. He apparently continued trying to recruit Kevin even after he verballed to SLU. Weber got what he deserves - what goes around comes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 that said, if roundtree ends up elsewhere, we shall see if the rest of the basketball world doesnt hold it against the new destination program. whether justified or not, i am betting it indeed will happen. the inference will be the new school indeed got involved. ... my suspicions are that roundtree was talked into that by a 3rd party. the crime in all this is that the 3rd party is nowhere around to accept blame for what he did in the form of bad advice to torres 6-7 months ago. I doubt the "rest of the basketball world" cares about a recruit like Roundtree de-committing and looking at other options. Roundtree isn't Gordon or Beasley. I don't know where you came up with this 3rd party stuff. That's just funny. Roundtree made a decision and later changed his mind. This happens all the time in recruiting — and is even worse in big-time college football recruiting when high schoolers have to wait until February to sign their letters. You should hear some of the stuff I've heard about schools going after COMMITTED Anthony Booker after his big July evaluation period. Roundtree has re-opened his recruiting and wants schools to recruit him. That's different than what happened with Gordon, Beasley and even Booker. I don't think SLU will get involved with Roundtree, unless the coaches determine that he is the best player available to them. The chances of that happening are very slim at best. I would not be surprised if Roundtree ended up at SIU — if the Salukis don't find somebody better to fill that spot — because he knows he can win games there, play with his best friend Booker and just be successful there. I think SIU is a great fit for him. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I don't know where you came up with this 3rd party stuff. That's just funny. Roundtree made a decision and later changed his mind. This happens all the time in recruiting — and is even worse in big-time college football recruiting when high schoolers have to wait until February to sign their letters. nate i have always said that is my assumption/opinion because i find it hard to believe that he was that stupid to make that announcement that early before he could even be approached first hand from lowery or any other college coach. in my opinion, a third party had to be involved. but if you are saying he indeed was that stupid that he made that decision on his own from letters he received from lowery and pictures of the campus he had saw on the internet or something, well then that tells us volumes about roundtree's cognitive abilities. i.e. i still think a 3rd party was involved as a go between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 nate i have always said that is my assumption/opinion because i find it hard to believe that he was that stupid to make that announcement that early before he could even be approached first hand from lowery or any other college coach. in my opinion, a third party had to be involved. but if you are saying he indeed was that stupid that he made that decision on his own from letters he received from lowery and pictures of the campus he had saw on the internet or something, well then that tells us volumes about roundtree's cognitive abilities. i.e. i still think a 3rd party was involved as a go between. I had a lot of bad things to say about TR's decision when it happened, but I don't think there is any need to call the kid "stupid". He's a teenager who made a bad choice. For some reason, your high horse seems to have grown exponentially over the past few months... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I had a lot of bad things to say about TR's decision when it happened, but I don't think there is any need to call the kid "stupid". He's a teenager who made a bad choice. For some reason, your high horse seems to have grown exponentially over the past few months... nashville, you misread my statement. i am only saying he is "stupid" if he made that choice based on a letter lowery may have wrote to him and never even visited the campus. now if you are saying that he indeed made his decision on that, well then i guess he was. but i say at the end that is why i believe there were 3rd party folks involved because i dont believe he would have done that. maybe i phrased it in a manner that you jump to that conclusion, but my intent was not to say i think that torres roundtree is "stupid". it was meant to point out that again it makes no sense that he made that decision in early february unless he had "help" in making that choice. my comment is more about the folks that likely surround torres roundtree than torres. i apologize to torres for apparently phrasing my comments in a manner that my real intent was too far masked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I think people are being a little harsh on this kid. Torres verballed to SIU in February of his junior year. He likely made that decision based on a relationship with Coach Lowery. Since then he likely began to wonder if he made the right decision and decided he wanted to look around a little bit so he decommitted from SIU. He wants to explore his options and make sure SIU is the best fit and I see no reason to throw dirt at him for making that decision. Choosing a college is the most important decision of his life to this point. No reason to question his character based on this decision. As far as Nate saying things along the lines of if SIU wants him back, that is ridiculous. SIU will be lucky to have a player of his caliber. I realize he will not be their highest rated recruit thanks to his best friend, but I guarantee you SIU will not be recruiting over Torres and will be thrilled to have him if he ultimately decides to go to SIU. I am a big fan of this kids game and would be more than happy if Rick and the staff decide he is a good fit and extend him an offer. I am not sure if I would offer him at this point or not, but I certainly would have preferred him to Femi John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 nate i have always said that is my assumption/opinion because i find it hard to believe that he was that stupid to make that announcement that early before he could even be approached first hand from lowery or any other college coach. in my opinion, a third party had to be involved. but if you are saying he indeed was that stupid that he made that decision on his own from letters he received from lowery and pictures of the campus he had saw on the internet or something, well then that tells us volumes about roundtree's cognitive abilities. i.e. i still think a 3rd party was involved as a go between. How do you know Torres didn't visit campus or speak to Lowery often? You act like these kids never speak to college coaches or visit college campuses before that magical date in the spring of their junior years in high school. I know you're not that stupid. Hmmm. I wonder if Tyler Griffey has ever been to SLU's campus or talked to Brad Soderberg or Rick Majerus? Maybe he's waiting until next spring before he does those things. It's good to know he's been able to look at pictures of SLU on the internet. Why does everything have to be a double-standard with you? At the same time Roundtree verbally accepted a scholarship offer from SIU, Femi John had a scholarship offer on the table from SLU. But by your argument it's wrong for Roundtree and not for John. I've always thought you knew at least a little bit about the recruiting process, but I must have been wrong. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 And in 3...2...1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 As far as Nate saying things along the lines of if SIU wants him back, that is ridiculous. SIU will be lucky to have a player of his caliber. I realize he will not be their highest rated recruit thanks to his best friend, but I guarantee you SIU will not be recruiting over Torres and will be thrilled to have him if he ultimately decides to go to SIU. When kids rescind their oral commitments, some schools don't want anything more to do with that player. I don't think that is the case with Roundtree, but I don't know that Chris Lowery will wait a couple months or until the spring for Roundtree to make another decision. SIU is still recruiting other kids and have offered at least one more scholarship (to Kyle Kuric). I don't know how many they have to give, but I don't think they'll stop recruiting other kids so they can wait for Torres to make up his mind. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I think people are being a little harsh on this kid. Torres verballed to SIU in February of his junior year. He likely made that decision based on a relationship with Coach Lowery. Since then he likely began to wonder if he made the right decision and decided he wanted to look around a little bit so he decommitted from SIU. He wants to explore his options and make sure SIU is the best fit and I see no reason to throw dirt at him for making that decision. Choosing a college is the most important decision of his life to this point. No reason to question his character based on this decision. As far as Nate saying things along the lines of if SIU wants him back, that is ridiculous. SIU will be lucky to have a player of his caliber. I realize he will not be their highest rated recruit thanks to his best friend, but I guarantee you SIU will not be recruiting over Torres and will be thrilled to have him if he ultimately decides to go to SIU. I am a big fan of this kids game and would be more than happy if Rick and the staff decide he is a good fit and extend him an offer. I am not sure if I would offer him at this point or not, but I certainly would have preferred him to Femi John. so what "relationship" does torres have with lowery? per ncaa guidelines, lowery is not supposed to verbally (phone or in person) initiate contact with torres until may of his junior season (i believe just recently that has now changed to one phone contact in march). unless there was some sort of personal relationship (i.e romar was a family friend of scott suggs since scott was in grade school) so that would mean that torres either initiated all contact or that they have no relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 And we have lift off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 ... so that would mean that torres either initiated all contact or that they have no relationship. That's how kids do it. The recruits can call the coaches anytime they want. To get around the rule, college coaches will call recruits' high schools coaches and ask them to tell the recruit to call the coach. This happens at every school. Haven't you ever heard of this before? - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 How do you know Torres didn't visit campus or speak to Lowery often? You act like these kids never speak to college coaches or visit college campuses before that magical date in the spring of their junior years in high school. I know you're not that stupid. Hmmm. I wonder if Tyler Griffey has ever been to SLU's campus or talked to Brad Soderberg or Rick Majerus? Maybe he's waiting until next spring before he does those things. It's good to know he's been able to look at pictures of SLU on the internet. Why does everything have to be a double-standard with you? At the same time Roundtree verbally accepted a scholarship offer from SIU, Femi John had a scholarship offer on the table from SLU. But by your argument it's wrong for Roundtree and not for John. I've always thought you knew at least a little bit about the recruiting process, but I must have been wrong. - Nate nate i wrote in the later post that if torres initiated the contact that would be fine. roundtree accepted in february, john waited until he had the opportunity to visit the school and talk to the coach and accepted after the ncaa date that teams can initiate face to face and phone contact. that doesnt seem like apples to apples. nate, i think you like to protect those hidden third parties in the recruiting process. btw, if i am so clueless you should post the links to the ncaa regulations that disprove what i am saying. then we could all learn what you know and benefit greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 so what "relationship" does torres have with lowery? per ncaa guidelines, lowery is not supposed to verbally (phone or in person) initiate contact with torres until may of his junior season (i believe just recently that has now changed to one phone contact in march). unless there was some sort of personal relationship (i.e romar was a family friend of scott suggs since scott was in grade school) so that would mean that torres either initiated all contact or that they have no relationship. I don't know about the relationship between the 2, but to respond to an earlier post of yours, isn't it possible that TR took an unofficial visit to SIU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 And we have lift off. Brian, I responded to your PM this morning. I don't know if the system sends e-mail alerts about that stuff anymore, so I figured I'd let you know. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 roundtree accepted in february, john waited until he had the opportunity to visit the school and talk to the coach and accepted after the ncaa date that teams can initiate face to face and phone contact. that doesnt seem like apples to apples. ... nate, i think you like to protect those hidden third parties in the recruiting process. btw, if i am so clueless you should post the links to the ncaa regulations that disprove what i am saying. then we could all learn what you know and benefit greatly. By your logic, John shouldn't have even had a scholarship offer from SLU when he did, because it was not allowed. Yes, I am trying to protect third parties in the recruiting process. I'm also a big supporter of street agents and shady summer-league coaches. You can look at the NCAA rulebook all you want. Have fun. You act like the recruiting process starts in the spring of these kids' junior years. How did SLU offer Tyler Griffey a scholarship when he was a freshman in high school? No one is suggesting that Brad Soderberg did something wrong in that situation. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 so what "relationship" does torres have with lowery? per ncaa guidelines, lowery is not supposed to verbally (phone or in person) initiate contact with torres until may of his junior season (i believe just recently that has now changed to one phone contact in march). unless there was some sort of personal relationship (i.e romar was a family friend of scott suggs since scott was in grade school) so that would mean that torres either initiated all contact or that they have no relationship. maybe a camp. I'm sure there are legal ways a kid gets to know a coach before the NCAA allows contact. Btw, I think it is illegal for the coach to contact the kid, not for the kid to contact the coach. Lowry has never that I know of been accused of cheating, so I would assume he didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I don't know about the relationship between the 2, but to respond to an earlier post of yours, isn't it possible that TR took an unofficial visit to SIU? of course. and that was my point. if he didnt initiate that (lowerry couldnt) visit and made the decision without going there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 By your logic, John shouldn't have even had a scholarship offer from SLU when he did, because it was not allowed. Yes, I am trying to protect third parties in the recruiting process. I'm also a big supporter of street agents and shady summer-league coaches. You can look at the NCAA rulebook all you want. Have fun. You act like the recruiting process starts in the spring of these kids' junior years. How did SLU offer Tyler Griffey a scholarship when he was a freshman in high school? No one is suggesting that Brad Soderberg did something wrong in that s nate john could have an offer either via a third party or by a letter sent by coach soderberg. i think i said lowery could have sent roundtree a letter. tyler probably got his scholarship offer via a third party (aau coach, high school coach, friend etc.) or a letter from slu, or he or his parents contacted slu. there are very specific guidelines as to what can or cant be initiated by the school at each level of the student athlete's high school career directly with the student athlete. your comment "You can look at the NCAA rulebook all you want. Have fun." is somewhat surprising because it suggests you havent and wont. i would think a webmaster of a college recruiting website to be the best that he can be would actually be somewhat of an expert in the ncaa rulebook. i was actually hoping you would take me up on my challenge to post links to my specific mistakes so i could indeed learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 maybe a camp. I'm sure there are legal ways a kid gets to know a coach before the NCAA allows contact. Btw, I think it is illegal for the coach to contact the kid, not for the kid to contact the coach. Lowry has never that I know of been accused of cheating, so I would assume he didn't. as far as i know lowery has an impeccable reputation and is a very hard worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 your comment "You can look at the NCAA rulebook all you want. Have fun." is somewhat surprising because it suggests you havent and wont. i would think a webmaster of a college recruiting website to be the best that he can be would actually be somewhat of an expert in the ncaa rulebook. i was actually hoping you would take me up on my challenge to post links to my specific mistakes so i could indeed learn more. Roy, I've tried to explain to you how recruiting really works — and the ways prospects and schools work around the rulebook. The NCAA rulebook has bylaws designed to level the playing field in regards to how recruits can be contacted and also protects recruits from getting phone calls non-stop for a couple years. Your "specific mistakes" aren't about the rules; they are about your refusal to acknowledge how coaches and players work around them. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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