All the names change except one

[brianstl]

Grawer, Spoon, Romar, Brad, Yates, Yow, Woolard, and Levick have all have come and most have gone. Biondi is the only constant. Hmmmmmm, I wonder where the big problem might be in getting this program where it can and should be?

[jp18]

It is Brad's fault. All Brad's fault. Right?

[slu72]

If UB's hands are tied so tight by this supposed underfunding of the AD, and that is the major reason why he can't attract one decent D1 player to this program, why doesn't he just quit and go somewhere where conditions are more favorable? God knows, there's gonna be a lot of openings in the next 4 weeks once all the moving around starts. But I think you already know the answer to this one, don't you?

[MrKnowItAll]

"It is Brad's fault. All Brad's fault. Right?"

90% Soderberg's fault, 5% on Biondi, 5% on the AD.... apparently, you do not understand the role of the head coach in college athletics. Despite of funding, they are EVERYTHING to a program, you have to realize that.

[billiken_roy]

explain how it is 90% soderberg's fault it took 5 years to fund the arena?

explain how it is 90% soderberg's fault that our athletic dept staff is half the size of siu or marquette?

explain how it is 90% soderberg's fault that the atlantic ten has screwed us on the tv package?

i could go on.

just show your work on the 90-5-5 please.

[MrKnowItAll]

"explain how it is 90% soderberg's fault it took 5 years to fund the arena?

explain how it is 90% soderberg's fault that our athletic dept staff is half the size of siu or marquette?

explain how it is 90% soderberg's fault that the atlantic ten has screwed us on the tv package?"

Well... first of all, do not even bring the arena into this, Marquette plays in the Bradley center for its home games(and they still succeed). It is 100% Brad's fault that we have not made the postseason in two straight seasons, and it is 100% Brad's fault that we have NO bigs or point guards (lack of recruiting).... i gave soderberg the benefit of the doubt when i said it was 90% his fault because of the lack of national attention and our president's iron fist with athletic funding. The bottonline is that many coaches have done more with less than soderberg has been able to do. I do not hate him or anything like that, but i simply feel change would be good for both parties. And about the tv package, i think we were screwed on it.. but that alone does not justify the overall poor job soderberg has done at this university.

[billiken_roy]

mkia, you do know that marquette has a 25 million dollar training and practice center? compare that to west pine?

slu is incapable of presenting a "bigtime" picture. as an expample, we lost stemler because indiana could. you can bet that the opposing coaches all play that card.

[MrKnowItAll]

yes i am aware, but that is not an on campus arena... they possess just as much of a 'homecourt advantage' as we do. if you ask me, they are morons for building such an expensive 'practice facility'.. makes no sense.

[courtside]

What Roy is not telling you is that Marquette has had a long time small budget and often well behind the times. What he is also not telling you is that Marquette has not had this new facility until two years ago. It is $31 million dollars. Marquette succeeded and won just fine prior to their new practice facility(and womens hoops home).(5-6k)

As to why they didn't build their own arena....$$$. Money. Marquette isn't this big high roller place that Roy conveniently claims it to be. It's facilities prior were worse than SLU's.

Also, the Bradley Center(19,000) is long walking distance from their campus, unlike SLU to Scottrade Center. There is also the old Mecca Arena literally across the street from it.(11,000) ...You have to consider the non-basketball events and competition from 3 Arenas all within very close prosimity of one another. That also wasn't feasible. There have been talks of expanding the Bradley Center or building a new building altogether to replace it in coming years. There is also talk of a possible MLS soccer stadium downtown as well there.

Marquette has established itself as the number two tenant to the Bucks...previously they were 3rd to Admirals Hockey(former home to many ex Blues players). The indoor soccer team(formerly a tenant years ago) plays at the Mecca, as does UWM basketball. Marquette does just fine selling out games at 1pm on Saturdays and on Wednesday nights or Monday nights or whenever for those who complain about the day of week or time of day.

Their most recent lease according to public records, ...19,600 per game rent...Marquette gets 14k in suite money, advertising, and after first 80k in merchandise sales, Marquette gets 20% thereafter. And they receive priority scheduling after Bucks set their schedule for season.

[kevinfootes]

as a few of us have been stating on here for a few years.

[kshoe]

Are you arguing that the “success†we had under Brad is equal to the success we had under Spoon?

Need I remind you that on the day Brad took over this program SLU had been to the NCAA tourney 4 of the previous 9 years.

So, to elaborate on your point…Biondi is the same, West Pine is the same, etc. yet when Spoon was here we went to the NCAA tourney nearly 50% of the time and since brad has been here that number is 0%. It seems like conclusive proof to me that when the right coach is here this program can be an NCAA caliber winner.

[kevinfootes]

He made a half-hearted commitment to the program and hasn't really lived up to it. The arena is great but less money could have been spent on more critical issues much sooner and the program would be in better shape.

[brianstl]

Due some stuff at work and on the board. I would like to apologize to Slu72 and the rest of the board for my language yesterday.

[brianstl]

I am arguing that some short term success will not make Biondi change the things that need to be changed to sustain that success. He will make promises to get this done but it won't happen. Just ask Grawer, Spoon, Romar, and Sodie about all the promises he made to them that he never delivered on.

[kshoe]

"make Biondi change the things that need to be changed to sustain that success"

And i am arguing that all you need is a good coach to have that success. Spoon was a good coach that could do it. Romar is/was a good coach but not a fit given his West Coast roots. Brad is not a good coach (e.g. recruiting) in my opinion. Change the coach and bring in someone of Spoon's quality and the success will come.

This continual whining about Biondi is weird because under some coaches and Biondi we've won and other coaches and Biondi we've not won. Maybe its the coaches that make the difference...not the guy that has been a constant through the good times and the bad.

[brianstl]

You do know that Spoon basically gave up on recruiting and eventually retired because of promises not delivered on by both Biondi and Woolard. There was stuff budget wise and facility wise that Spoon was promised when he took the job here that were never even attempted to be delivered. Some of those things now are only starting to cometo fruition and others are still waiting to be addressed. This all a decade after they were promised. The program was allowed to fall even further behind on these fronts even if it was already among the worst.

[billiken_roy]

while i think the world of spoon as a floor coach and an after dinner speaker, the recruiting needs has only gotten tougher. spoon only succeeded when good players fell in his lap (claggett, highmark and hughes) the other teams were definitely no better if not worst that the typical soderberg seasons.

to insinuate that spoon was a better recruiter than soderberg is almost laughable.

i would buy he was a better game coach. but not a recruiter.

spoon was as much a roller coaster as any coach. i thought the hope was to get to a point we are successful all the time. a spoon clone isnt the answer either if that is what the fandom wants.

[slu72]

Spoon's recruiting of Perry, Love, Jeffers, H from UNLV, Dobbs, Harris got us dancing 4 times in 7 years. I didn't even mention the Legend, since you would say Spoon was not responsible. He may not have liked to recruit, but I'd take him over UB in a heartbeat. Granted one of the 4 times was with Zo at the helm, but those were primarily Spoon recruited players. He also bought in the much heralded flop Cranford, who, as I recall, was being sought after by some of the bigs.

[brianstl]

Am I correct that none of you want to address why Spoon basically gave up on recruiting and then quit? I would think if we want another coach like Spoon maybe somethings should be fixed first so that coach doesn't walk away either.

[ACE]

>Spoon's recruiting of Perry, Love, Jeffers, H from UNLV,

>Dobbs, Harris got us dancing 4 times in 7 years. I didn't

>even mention the Legend, since you would say Spoon was not

>responsible. He may not have liked to recruit, but I'd take

>him over UB in a heartbeat. Granted one of the 4 times was

>with Zo at the helm, but those were primarily Spoon

>recruited players. He also bought in the much heralded flop

>Cranford, who, as I recall, was being sought after by some

>of the bigs.

He also recruited some solid players in Heinrich, Baniak, Robinson, Turner, Fregerson, Johnson, Cobbin and Macauley. Sure he had some recruiting misses, but we had teams that made the Tourney. We were in the top 10 in the country in attendance. We had some buzz in the community. We were liked by the local media. Some of the anti-Spoon sentiment on this board is strange, considering he is by far the best this program has had in modern history.

BTW - I also heard an interesting interview recently with the UNLV radio announcer. He gave Spoon a lot of credit for leaving that program in good shape for Kruger. He recruited several outstanding players who were a part of this year's Sweet 16 team. He also helped unify that basketball community that was very divided. There were several coaches who were big flops after Tark and they had more NCAA trouble etc. Spoon was credited with bringing stability and leaving some quality talent for the next coach. The theory that has been on here that Spoon left that program in shambles, is nonsense.

[brianstl]

Ace I think a lot of it has to do with the fact people feel Spoon abandon the program and did not put in the effort needed in recruiting his last few years here. There are legitmate reasons why those things happened, but some people still feel like he abandon the program.

[billiken_roy]

spoon admitted at a slu banquet back in the day that h fell in his lap. he had zero input. tark was leaving unlv, h said he wasnt staying if tark was gone and asked him what coach might help him get to the nba. tark told him about winston garland from spoon's southwest missouri days and h enrolled at slu.

love came to slu because of the slu asst coach that after spoon left went to the univ of denver. i am blocking on his name. had romar and randy bennett not been the replacements, it is doubtful love would have stayed. bennett and romar at pepperdine were love's second choice when he picked slu. that is straight from the love family.

again, slu under spoon was a roller coaster. and that was primarily because of spoon's lazy recruiting. a spoon clone is not the answer.

[ACE]

>while i think the world of spoon as a floor coach and an

>after dinner speaker, the recruiting needs has only gotten

>tougher. spoon only succeeded when good players fell in his

>lap (claggett, highmark and hughes) the other teams were

>definitely no better if not worst that the typical soderberg

>seasons.

>

>to insinuate that spoon was a better recruiter than

>soderberg is almost laughable.

>

>i would buy he was a better game coach. but not a

>recruiter.

>

>spoon was as much a roller coaster as any coach. i thought

>the hope was to get to a point we are successful all the

>time. a spoon clone isnt the answer either if that is what

>the fandom wants.

Roy, I have heard Soderberg on more than one occasion say that getting Ian was "luck." Those were his words. Anthony Beane knew somebody in Greece who referred him. They basically signed Ian after seeing a video tape. Tdell has said that Tommie definitely would have been at SLU if Romar was still the coach. I suspect the same for Lisch, but I'll even give you that one.

Last year, I said that Sodeberg needed to add instant help in last year's recruiting class to add to the big 3. You and the other kool aid crew assured me that we had enough talent to make the Tourney this year with what we had. I kept an open mind and hoped you were right. I was skeptical, but thought if things broke just right, it was possible. Well, we all know how that turned out.

Contrast that to Spoon's recruiting when he got here. Yes, he inherited two good players, but unlike Soderberg, he quickly built the talent base around those players adding Dobbs, Waldman, Turner, Robinson, Macauley, Campbell, and Harris. That resulted in two NCAA at-large bids.

NOW, Soderberg has to add instant help for Tommie and Kevin to avoid squandering that talented pair. Spoon had a talented pair and built good talent around them. Can Soderberg do the same?

[ACE]

>Ace I think a lot of it has to do with the fact people feel

>Spoon abandon the program and did not put in the effort

>needed in recruiting his last few years here. There are

>legitmate reasons why those things happened, but some people

>still feel like he abandon the program.

Brian, Spoon left a roster of Love, Jeffers, Perry, Baniak, Tatum, Heinrich, and Fergerson for the next coach. That team wound up having a top 40 season. Jeffers got drafted and Love and Perry got looks in NBA camps. That team had some nice talent. (Roy, don't even go there about how Romar was able to get Jeffers and Pery to honor their commitments. Spoon got them to sign on the dotted line. Those were his recruits.)

[Schasz]

I don't know about a complete Spoon clone, but I would definitely take Spoon's game day coaching along with the defense the team played in our Tourney years...couple that with someone who can sell ice water to Eskimos and we got our next HC.