SLURadioBoy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Just saw the Lisch story on Channel 5. He seems like a good kid and I couldn't believe how chisseled he is. I liked that Frank mentioned that Brad sends him a hand-written note everyday. Unfortunatley he also mentioned that Weber was at his last game. "Praises we sing, to you our alma mater, Praise to the white and blue. Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you, We hail Saint Louis U." Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 We can not expect that good players we are recruiting are not going to be noticed by others. The truth is, Brad is going to simply have to win some of those recruiting battles. If you are going run with the big dogs you have got to be able to keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 True, but you have to pick your battles. Once a Duke, a Florida or a Kentucky gets involved, it's time to step aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trich Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Disagree about conceding to Duke, Fl., et.al. You have to protect your territory. You may lose on the recruit but you cannot concede the recruit to another school because of their national reputation and presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenslunatic Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 trich is right if you concede to those teams you will show other recruits that you are not serious in improving your programs prestige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 what you are proposing is exactly why coach romar flunked billiken recruiting. lorenzo was a good enough recruiter to get in very deep with very very highly acclaimed recruits. the likes of darius miles, travis diener, jamal sampson, chuck hayes, all kept slu on their lists until the last days. in the meantime the second tier recruits signed elsewhere and on the judgement day, we were second place finishers. so then we were left with the randy pulley's and ross varner's of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 We are not of the level yet where I believe we have a better than 70% shot of landing a top 100 guy. We will get there someday, but not right now. Look at UB's recruits this year-no top 100's for one reason or another but they will help the Billikens win. I am with Broy, we held out for the cream under 'zo and got left with the curds. Other programs are winning w/o the rock stars so can we. You win then the rock stars listen. This is a long and winding road and I'm just happy we will never play the same game as the Mizzery's, Floridas, etc to land players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBill Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Wait a second. There is absolutely nothing wrong with gunning for a top 100 or even top 25 guy if he's giving you the right signs and you have developed a relationship with him. It sounds like Brad has been speaking with Lisch for over a year - what's he supposed to do now? Say he got too good and forget about him? That's nuts. I absolutely agree that we should not be trying to get a bunch of top 100 players that are doubtful, but gunning for one per year (especially when he lives 30 minutes from campus) seems absolutely reasonable. If it doesn't work out you still have 2 or 3 other recruits from the fall and you fall back to a JUCO in the spring and its not in the end of the world. To me the potential benefit outweights the potential cost. You also have to figure that if Brad is spending all this time with Lisch he thinks there is a good chance we'll land him. Hopefully Brad is good at interpreting a recruit's level of interest. Has there ever been any statement by Brad or any other party in the know regarding the probability of our favorite team landing Lisch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 >Wait a second. There is absolutely nothing wrong with >gunning for a top 100 or even top 25 guy if he's giving you >the right signs and you have developed a relationship with >him. It sounds like Brad has been speaking with Lisch for >over a year - what's he supposed to do now? Say he got too >good and forget about him? That's nuts. > >I absolutely agree that we should not be trying to get a >bunch of top 100 players that are doubtful, but gunning for >one per year (especially when he lives 30 minutes from >campus) seems absolutely reasonable. If it doesn't work out >you still have 2 or 3 other recruits from the fall and you >fall back to a JUCO in the spring and its not in the end of >the world. To me the potential benefit outweights the >potential cost. > >You also have to figure that if Brad is spending all this >time with Lisch he thinks there is a good chance we'll land >him. Hopefully Brad is good at interpreting a recruit's >level of interest. > >Has there ever been any statement by Brad or any other party >in the know regarding the probability of our favorite team >landing Lisch? Well said! If there's a top kid expressing interest, especially local, go all out for it. Just have a good plan B ready to go. Romar's Plan B choices were bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 the trick is figuring out how serious the recruit really is. like i said, all of the top players that lorenzo chased to the bitter end were all saying slu was a top choice until the day of signing. coach brad made the mistake last summer of chasing grimes too long and it probably cost him shaw. i agree the coach has to go after the talent. and in kevin lisch's case, i think coach brad had a big head start. that might be the key. get in early and then fight off the challengers. that said, no sign of brad friday or saturday nite at kevin's games, but illinois, notre dame, siu and wisconsin were there on separate days. hate to let anyone else in the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 There's no guarantee Brad would've gotten Shaw either if he had started earlier. If he felt that Grimes had some genuine interest, I don't second-guess him for going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 ace, explain what romar was supposed to have done plan b wise in the scenarios of chuck hayes, sampson, diener and miles. remember, all were saying slu was among the top choices till the end. same with coach brad on grimes. he obviously hung around too long and ignored shaw until grimes picked missouri and by then it was too late. so on one hand you are saying go after them, but then you want a solid plan b. i dont see how plan b is possible if you want to truly pursue the top recruit that is indicating slu is a top choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 so what was his plan b. from what i can see, the scholarship still sits open and there is no word on filling it. shaw had said before he wanted to go to slu. he even made an unofficial visit on his own to slu in the spring to show coach soderberg he was interested. my bet is that painter made us out to be the bad guy big time by pointing out his lesser performing teamate, grimes, was getting slu's attention instead. if i was shaw and was being ignored for the real second choice, i would probably have done the same thing matt did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Broy's right about 'Zo. Longshots were giving him all the right signs but in the end-NADA, hence we get Pulley, the kid from Montana, Kern (non qualifier), and Hollins at UCLA. I'm for going after the best, but we aren't a Duke, KY, who have A players as backups. So if they are hedging, then we've got to sign the guy who really wants to play for SLU. I don't know about the Shaw deal but knew SIU was on him from the go. He listed us second and who knows he may have sensed we wanted Grimes. He said in his interview SIU was there from the start. I'm hoping when young Mr. Lisch signs with UB/SLU, he says the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 If we ever hope to be more than we are, we absolutely have to go after the best talent that is out there. I don't care if he has Duke, UCLA, Kentucky, or the Denver Nuggets on his list. To get better you have to take chances. Are we always going to get our guy? No. Are recruits farther down our list going to go elsewhere because we work real hard at landing the bigger recruits? Quite possibly, but I say so what!!! I love this program and the current players on the team. I think they work real hard and are a tough W for any opponent, but if this program is going to be a consistent contender for Conference titles and wins in the NCAA tournament, then we have to go after the big recruits, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO LIVE IN OR NEAR ST. LOUIS AND HAVE EXPRESSED AT LEAST A MILD INTEREST IN SLU!! If we are just going to concede recruits just because big programs get involved then we should just move to a smaller conference and become a basketball afterthought. I am proud of coach for going after Grimes. I would have been embarassed had he said,"Well Mizzou is involved I have to let this go." I don't want that type of defeatist attitude sitting at the head of my basketball program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLURadioBoy Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 Well it definitely would have been nice if Brad or one of the assistants would have been at Kevin's last game, but that doesn't really worry me too much. It's not like Kevin doesn't know SLU is very interested in him, especially if Brad sends him a note every day. We all knew the other schools would start coming eventually, but hopefully Kevin will remember who's wanted him the longest. I think since he told Hoopscoop he really likes St. Louis, plus he's at most of our games and scrimmages with the team in the summer, we still have a very good shot at landing him. "Praises we sing, to you our alma mater, Praise to the white and blue. Our hymn shall ring, in tribute strong to you, We hail Saint Louis U." Official Billikens.com sponsor of Andrew Latimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 b. roy, a school can only see a recruit a certain number of times during the season via ncaa rules. i think the number is four or five. the slu coaches have already seen him a number of times, and are close to their legal limit. i know i saw brad at the belleville west tournament over thanksgiving. these coaches you are seeing now are probably seeing kevin for the first time at althoff, therefore, you will continue to see them throughout the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I think there is a big difference in going for the top recruit who is local and the one who is not. We must go after every local player we want ... and expect to win, especially if the recruit, such as Lisch, has expressed a desire to stay close to home. Most of the recruits Romar was chasing were from far away. We have at least as much to offer as the other local schools. A program on the rise, a new arena being built and the chance to be a local hero in your home town. For those non - NBA recruits we should have as good a chance as anyone. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 i dont profess to have the answer. i will leave that decision on when to call the kids bluff and move on to the professionals, our coaching staff. my only point is that i think it is ironic that people are now advocating going after the big recruits after giving lorenzo the berries for his recruiting efforts when in reality he was doing exactly what some of you are advocating and getting in so deep he had to play it out till the end. we have already seen it appears the one "nationally ranked" player that coach brad played till the end has come back to haunt him thus far. (hopefully he finds a juco stud in the wings to save that spot) there is no hiding the fact i supported coach romar. but to be honest, i like the way coach soderberg has approached recruiting for the most part. the only move i dont support was the grimes deal and then only because imo the better player was right there all along and he chose to push him to the back temporarily. other than that, i think he has done a splendid job recruiting thus far. as to young mr lisch, he has to play that out to the end or at least until he sees signs kevin has turned on him. right now by all accounts he is in the lead. the biggest difference is that brad was there first and gave him tip top attention first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 good point if true. that's a crazy rule. what if brad wanted to watch a player on belleville west that night. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 As far as this weekend with Lisch ... isn't he allowed to make personal contact with Kevin only so many times a year? He probably sent Kevin a hand written note as we know he always does ... explaining to Kevin that he wishes he could be there to see him play ... but would rather spend the visit when they can spend more time one on one. Kevin seems like a smart kid to me. I would bet he understands ... and may not be so impressed with the Johnny come lately coaches Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 the difference though is that grimes never really included us in the serious list. he would sometimes mention us as an afterthought, but we always saw illinois, missouri and kansas in his statements. i.e. if we werent in the lead from the get go like we are with lisch, i would have let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 i wasnt standing right there, i was at center court near the middle across the floor from the benches, but it appeared to me that kevin didnt even give weber a look let alone say or talk to him. now maybe webber went to the lockerroom after the game, i dont know that, but i didnt see any acknowledgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I would love to see an article done on recruiting. Say a coach from a top 10 program and a coach from one like ours and a mid major. The difference in strategies would be interesting to know. Am sure Coach K and UB have totally different approaches. I agree we have to go after top recruits but we also have to be realistic. It's a hell of a dilemma for UB and his staff. They can't ignore a Grimes, but what do they do if a kid like Shaw is right there ready to sign while the other guy is waiting to see what his net paycheck is going to be from Q-tip? This is where I think the coaches have to have confidence in their ability to develop talent. If a kid is deemed a notch below but still assessed to have D-1 skills why not take the sure thing? There is no right or wrong here. It's all judgement and timing. But I'm thinking when we play SIU again we're going to be regretting we didn't offer Shaw before Mr. Grimes decided he was Mi$$ery bound. If this indeed was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 We aren't Duke. Plan B recruits don't wait around on SLU until October until all the Plan A have made their official visits. We need to pursue the Matt Shaws of the world off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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