SLUDrew Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Yes, winning the next two would make me very happy. Making a run to the sweet 16 would make me happier than anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 drew, when soderberg took over the program, romar's two recruits for that year had either not qualified academically (nick kern) or reneged on their commit (hollins). two other billikens had just flunked out (pulley and edwin). and the billikens were coming off of a sub 500 season. compare that to last year, i'd say the status of the program had improved before this season began. point two, i personally did not believe the a-10 was relatively weak before the season began, and in truth, i dont think the a-10 is actually as week as it looks by rpi indicators. umass, george washington and rhode island, all had over 130 strength of schedules in their non-conference games and set themselves up for an rpi downturn. i believe that all three as well as slu, fordham and st joes might all have finished 3rd in the mvc. the problem is that the mvc has it figured out. you've seen missouri state up close, do you honestly believe that team is better than the teams that finished ahead of slu? to continue on point two, anyone that says had they known we were not going to see improvement out of vouyoukas this year and lisch to get hurt 4 times this year and they still would have made the same predictions for slu is lying. and i agree you are a billiken fan. you just hate brad soderberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 SLUDrew I have no problem with you and most on this board holding the program to task and wanting it to reach expectations. I will say though that expectations on this board are always high, I think the majority of posters have predicted 20 win seasons for the last 5 years or so. I think it shows how variable college basketball is, while many of us think some players should continually improve and teams also, it just doesn't always happen. Last year SLU was involved in many close games, especially in the conference and was able to win many of those close games. SLU finished tied for 3rd in conference, but not that far from being lower. This year is marked with a stretch of very bad play that matched with a time when Lisch was suffering through his injuries. I wish the team could have found a way to overcome this but they didn't and we are sitting at 8-8 mostly because of that. I would guess the "NCAA or bust" sentiment went out when most posters realized getting an at large bid wasn't going to happen coupled with the fact that there was little chance the administration was going to fire Brad. Why get up in arms and demand he be fired when in reality it just isn't going to happen. Also, I think even you would have to admit that while the season hasn't matched your expectations, the team has come together and is playing good ball at this point in the season. This to me is what gives a lot of promise toward next year. I understand that you do not like Brad and the coaches, but I just hope that your feelings toward them are not causing you to miss out on enjoying what they and the team have accomplished this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I am not a Billiken Club member, matter fact I have never even paid for a ticket to a Billiken game. Does that make me less of a fan? I apologize that you took such offense to my comment about the extent of Tommie's relationship with Anthony Mitchell. Does Sam and Classic Mortgage know that you have over 16,000 posts on an internet message board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I have basically stopped posting relative to this negative crap because it just infuriates me and I get attacked by all of the naysayers. But just to correct the record, This post is not accurate in its summary of the negative view of Brad by "virtually every poster on this board". I would agree that it was the view of virtually every poster on this board who dislikes Brad. Most of the positive posters by midseason pretty much stopped posting altogether because they were tired of being attacked. The answer to your question is that you and others want the Bills to win on your terms with a coach that you like. Any true fan does not care so long as the team does well, the players are class individuals and they graduate. The continued negative focus on Brad, this late in a 20 win season is ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 if you are the great success you are and you are proud you dont buy tickets and support the team via the billiken club, it doesnt say much for your fanship. as to sam, i guess you should ask sam if he cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I was one of those NCAA or bust guys. But my tune has changed (suprised?). I said all summer that I want to see improvement. And I think we have this year. I think we saw Brad make large strides as a coach - our ppg is up, we have seen a variety of defenses, he has not been afraid to use different rotations. Our problem is lack of big time athletes. I think Brad knows that. I think Cheryl knows that. And pretty much everybody in St. Louis knows that. I feel very confident in Brad's ability to coach D-1 bball. As always, the recruiting is suspect. He really needs to land some players. I think he has already surpassed last years class (I know...not too hard to do). I think that if we make the NCAA, our chances of landing our top prospects DOUBLE. Players want to be in the tourney. If they see us there, they know we're actual contenders. 2 more wins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 The run this week is great, but I still have issues with Brad's coaching decisions mid-way through the season. How come it took him so long to figure out that Luke can play the three, he can play the twin towers together on the court, and he can switch up defenses from time to time? I think the team is much better from top to bottom when Polk plays the limited role of the bench that he played yesterday and in the second half on Wednesday? We are also much better when he isn't wed to the man-to-man pack d. That being said, I think the pack d translates nicely against GW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 >I have basically stopped posting relative to this negative >crap because it just infuriates me and I get attacked by all >of the naysayers. But just to correct the record, This post >is not accurate in its summary of the negative view of Brad >by "virtually every poster on this board". I would agree >that it was the view of virtually every poster on this board >who dislikes Brad. Most of the positive posters by midseason >pretty much stopped posting altogether because they were >tired of being attacked. > >The answer to your question is that you and others want the >Bills to win on your terms with a coach that you like. Any >true fan does not care so long as the team does well, the >players are class individuals and they graduate. The >continued negative focus on Brad, this late in a 20 win >season is ridiculous! He is referring to many posts from legit non troll posters prior to season. And the poll that was taken where 100% of posters said anything less than NCAA was disappointment this year. And referring to BRad who said anything short of that should fairly be considered a disappointment this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Why would I buy tickets when I am given tickets for free? I have never really looked into joining the Billiken Club or anything of that nature. What benefit would someone that lives 15 hours away receive from being a member of the Billiken Club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I too believe the A-10 is actually a little underrated. I believe that if the top 7 or so teams in our conference squared off agains the top 7 or so teams in the Valley, we would fair pretty well. That being said, a 7th place finish and an 8-8 record is still intolerable in my book. None of us could foresee Ian's regression or Kevin's had injury. However, one could also easily say that no one could know how much Tommie would improve his shooting percentage. I wonder if you told everyone before the year that Tommie would be one of the best 3-point shooters in the conference, what their predictions might have been? You would have certainly seen a lot of predictions in the neighborhood of 14-2. Saying I hate Brad Soderberg is a little too harsh. You can't hate such an upstanding guy who is obviously passionate about the program and the players on the team. I just don't think he is the guy to lead us to the next level. Let's go win two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 You would be supporting the program financially. Hopefully with contributions, the posters on this board can't blame the lack of funds towards recruiting for Brad's lack of recruits. the man can't recruit. and btw, this is probably the main reason why he should be fired. i keep reading how outrageous it would be to fire a 20 win coach. that is great and all, but he has followed TL and KL with NO ONE....that's why he should be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 My feelings about Brad (mind you I am referring to Brad the Coach not Brad the human being) in NO way effect how much fun this tourney ride has been thus far. I don't care who is coaching the team, they are still my Billikens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Missouri State did beat Wisconsin who was ranked #1 in the country recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 I think the biggest mistake that Brad had made this year is playing Luke at the 4.I believe the pack has been exposed because of our weakness inside. If our guards didn't sag so much to help we could stay further out. I would hope somebody on our coaching staff would breakdown our tape this summer to see if we we're as vulnerable from the 3ptline as many of us believe,and if we lost games because of that. Playing a bigger 4 also helps our rebounding which was average at best. What defense you give up by playing Polk less would be made up by the offense any sub would give you over Dwayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 from the first billiken club meeting in august already, brad was assuring us that tommie had put the time in the gym over the summer and his shot was tremendously improved. so actually tommie's shot was figured in my enthusiasm. luke meyer was not, but then i also felt dwayne would be better and obi would be a factor. so any luke improvement is offset by polk and obi disappointment. cheryl levick said it perfectly this week. reverse that first week of january (st bonnie and duquesne) and really the season is pretty close to what most expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 the same thing most anyone else would. the satisfaction of helping their alma mater or program of choice succeed. it is the small time booster like you and me that slu lacks imo. i have been giving the same three figure donation for about 15 years. yet i have leaped over a couple of thousand boosters according to my seniority number i get every year. there is no way that should have happened. apparently there are a lot of season ticket holders that really arent boosters. take that 2000 season ticket holders, and multiply by just $500 and 15 years that equals $15,000,000 that slu hasnt had the benefit of using over that time frame. it all adds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 hit it again willie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 so if you make a mistake at work david you arent allowed to learn from it and change the way you make decisions going forward? could it be possible that bryce indeed has improved which allowed luke to play the 3? brad was saying last fall he really would like to see meyer play the 3. i wouldnt be asking why it took so long, i would be happy he is trying to switch defenses when his players havent responded. (for the record, i am not a pack defense fan either) polk is a splendid athlete. there have been games and situations that he has been a difference maker. danny brown is physically more suited for the level of basketball we need to play, however, danny tended to be more turnover prone and didnt play as consistent on the defensive end, dwayne did not turn the ball over as much and had some stellar defense. amazingly, once danny started to reduce his turnovers and play more consistently defensively, it made more sense to move luke more to the 3 and to use danny more at the wing. again, i applaud the fact he made the change not ask why it took so long to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 which leads to the real deficiency in brad soderberg that i will agree with. the inability to recruit that real power forward that can contribute at a level greater than luke meyer, vashun newborne, justin johnson, obi ikeakor, adam knollmeyer, horace dixon, izik ohannon, etc. obviously not from a lack of trying to find that player. it all leads back to one poor decision. chasing grimes instead of matt shaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 He recruited that real center which is even more rare in my opinion. He had a real power forward. His name was Izik Ohanon. He didnt use him right. I think AK is a real pf, he just needs minutes. He's probably better than Boyle over at SIU. He plays a lot for them and he's from Desoto HS in Missouri, but most people never heard of him. AK was always on at least same level as Boyle if not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 you need to avoid floyd irons and mi$$ouri discussions and stick with player talk. that said, soderberg tried to use izik various ways. izik seemed was a tough nut to motivate as well. a lot of talent that just would disappear it seemed to me. then all at once he would look like an nba player. hard to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 You can't just say, "take away those two games and things would be different." Virtually every team in America could say that. We lost to two vastly inferior opponents and those losses ended our at-large hopes. End of story. Very good teams don't lose those games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Izik could always shoot and they should've just used him in pick and pop situation. He would've been so good for SLU the last 2 years as the starting 4. I guess you dont know what you got til its gone. I didnt start the thread on Missouri or Floyd Irons by the way. Check out who started them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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