GOPBilliken Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 The quote: "If, as I suspect, that most of the super negative posters are relatively young then it makes me wonder what is it that makes these young people so angry, pessimistic and negative. As I posted earlier today, in my experience those attributes almost always lead individuals and organizations of those individuals to fail. I work with a lot of young people who are agressive, optimistic and super positive. Where does this other attitude come from and does it reflect on where we will be as a society if those attitudes take over?" First of all, to the people who remember watching Easy Ed or even Larry Hughes, you've witnessed some great Billiken teams and traveled to see them in the NCAA's. Students from the post-Miracle in Memphis run era have zero memories of great Billiken teams, awesome recruits, legendary coaches, supportive student bodies, roadtrips to NCAA sites. We have nothing - and we're pissed off about it. A lot of us, myself included, should have opted to go to Marquette for undergrad. Being in the midwest, I narrowed it down to Marquette, Saint Louis, Xavier and if I got off the waitlist, Notre Dame. In hindsight, I would never do things over - I had a great four years at SLU and have a degree from one of the best schools in the country. But from a basketball standpoint -- from a school pride standpoint - I would have loved to be in Milwaukee for their Final Four run. Look at MU games now - they've been on ABC, CBS, ESPN (REGULAR ESPN, NOT THE U) and they sell out Bradley ever game! The student section goes all the way to the rafters and they even had a coach on a ventilator be honored at halftime of a game! What spirit! We have NOTHING! We've been mired in mediocrity for the last six seasons and we're tired of it. As students not from St. Louis who can't recall the glory days of Hughes or any of the Spoon Ball era, we have nothing. Yeah, the Louisville game in 2003 or whatever, but in our region, XU has gone to the tournament, DePaul, Marquette and even Creighton have all made NCAA appearances. A lot of students from my alma mater decide where to pursue a degree at Catholic schools in the midwest, and we have a great number of kids who come down to SLU, but God do I envy my classmates from Peoria Notre Dame who went north to Marquette. They have an experience that I'll never have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOPBilliken Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 I know for me, I take athletic success very seriously. Probably too seriously. But my mom went to Notre Dame and was there for a National Championship season (Ara's last one in 1973), so I've always rooted for ND, but when it was time for me to go to school, I wanted to take part in roadies to see the Bills in the NCAA, and we had such high hopes with Romar. Then we came crashing down. The best memory I have is rushing the court for the U of L game. That was amazing. Best night of my life. What a win. Haven't had any good ones since and the dicks at Scottrade wouldn't let us rush the court probably anyway. It just angers me to see so much mediocrity in a program that has so much potential. It drives me nuts to watch us play games like the one on Wednesday and the first half of the Ole Miss game. Doesn't that drive you guys nuts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggerphelps Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Metz, if this is Metz --- I was in the '05 class with you and remember you at all the Billiken games and know you are very passionate, but I think that your aggression and anger as you call it should be channeled in supporting our team through thick and thin. Right now, we're in the depths of mediocrity and I totally agree with you there. We're stuck with Brad for god only knows how long and yeah, that sucks. He's a bad coach and a horrible recruiter and that has been well-documented on here (mostly by you). As a young person myself, I get frustrated as well when watching the Billikens play. We do have a lot of potential, once we get rid of Justin and some of those other stooges. I think we need to dip our pen into the JUCO ink and sign some top talent to replace Voyoukas -- some sort of Frericks-like guy who can bang a bit down low. I don't know of one JUCO guy off the top of my head, but I'm sure they are out there. And as a response to the quote, our generation of young people will be great leaders in America, once all the Birkenstock-wearing/Pelosi types die off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I think SLU can do more as well, but I am just a negative idiot who's suggestions are written off as unwarranted vitriol, so what do I know? I attend every game, listen to every road game on the radio, but somehow I hate SLU and want SLU to fail. The whole, "you are either with us or against us" mindset reminds me of the Ashcroft/Rumsfeld/Dubya rhetoric we heard so much of during the beginning stages of the War in Iraq. To many on this board you are not a fan if you question any aspect of the program especially Brad Soderberg who has somehow become a sacred cow. This program can be much more than it is, and I think it will be. Excuses abound, but I have yet to read a valid reason why we can't expect to be Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, or Gonzaga. We do not have to accept meciocrity simply because some say our program is historically mediocre. There is no reason we should not demand more out of this program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 so how much are you donating to the athletic dept per year now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggerphelps Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Roy, I don't think that has anything to do with it. Metz probably gives his philanthropic efforts to the East St. Louis chamber of naked commerce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOPBilliken Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Thanks, Jason. Just to let you know, I haven't been to a strip club since a 5'5 Asian woman named Eva broke my heart and bank account at Cheeta's in Veagas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Yes it does ... to run a big time program takes money. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I can understand how you feel. I was lucky enough to be a student during Spoon's first two NCAA appearances, and I will tell you that as fun as it was being on campus then, it was nothing compared to the excitement of our Miracle in Memphis run, which happened three years after I graduated. I know we'll be back in the tournament soon so you can see for yourself how great it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 it has everything to do with it. if metz aka ARV aka gop aka alaskan whats to complain about the way the program is going he should be part of the solution and donate to the cause. either that or jump out of the fandom altogether. at least quit b!tching about it if he isnt going to do anything constructive like donate to the athletic dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 That's ridiculous Roy. I donate, but not everyone can afford to, nor do they have to even if they can afford it. I am sure the vast majority of people on here either went to SLU, buys tickets to basketball games, or both. That is more than enough of a donation to have an opinion on the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 opinions are fine. metz aka arv aka alaskan aka gop is making demands. i say if you are going to be demanding and emphatic to that point, then put your money where your mouth is. otherwise he is nothing more than a slaten without a microphone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Wow! Now I completely understand your attitude. You say that buying a ticket is more than enough of a donation. I have talked at length with Cheryl and she says that this attitude is the biggest problem with the efforts to raise money for the arena and for the support of Billiken basketball. If people want a new arena and a great team then they have to realize that its costs a lot of money and the ticket receipts do not come close to covering the total costs of the program, not counting the incredible new challenge of building and servicing a big new arena! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 >Wow! Now I completely understand your attitude. You say >that buying a ticket is more than enough of a donation. I >have talked at length with Cheryl and she says that this >attitude is the biggest problem with the efforts to raise >money for the arena and for the support of Billiken >basketball. If people want a new arena and a great team then >they have to realize that its costs a lot of money and the >ticket receipts do not come close to covering the total >costs of the program, not counting the incredible new >challenge of building and servicing a big new arena! It is also the Administration's job to commit to a winning hoops program, and Levick and the coach's job to recruit big ticket donors. It isn't about a nickel here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 SLU basketball is a fun hobby, but everyone has their financial limits and frankly SLU basketball shouldn't be anyone's top financial priority. Most younger fans have significant debts to pay off. The folks in my generation should be using excess income, if any, to fund college funds for our kids and 401ks for our retirement before we fund SLU basketball. To the extent there is excess income, there are thousands of much more needy charities that need everyone's support. And I am not making excuses for myself--right or wrong, I spent several thousands of dollars on SLU basketball last year between tickets, Billiken club donations, and an arena donation. The bottom line is that SLU basketball should first and foremost be an investment by the university intended to create goodwill, increase exposure, and market the university. If the university is serious about this investment, it should committ another million or two of its own multi-hundred million dollar budget on the program. I have no patience for the university or its wealthy senior citizen backers crying about young alumni pinching pennies when they have more important priorities in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 the fact is ... it is a business. Without money you can't compete, you say the major part of the money should come from the older alumni or it's own multi hundred millian dollar budget ... where does that money come from? I'd be curious to know how much of the AD budget comes from donations, and how does that compare to like schools. I agree with Roy though ... if you are not a season ticket holder and at least contributing the minnimum to the Billiken Club ... sure you can have an opinion, but don't expect it to count for much. I don't know where SLU stands in money compared to like schools ... but I doubt we are over 200 in terms of it's worth ... or even in terms of donations by Alumni and fans ... which would make me question why our recruiting budget is ranked so low. That tells me that the desire to be a top 50 program is more lip service than reality. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 > the fact is ... it is a business. Without money you can't >compete, you say the major part of the money should come >from the older alumni or it's own multi hundred millian >dollar budget ... where does that money come from? I have never seen the numbers, but I imagine the university's budget comes from a combination of endowment, tuition, donations, and grants. I would also speculate that the men's basketball program generates a significant amount of revenue apart from the general revenue sources. The bottom line: if the university truly wants a top 50 men's basketball program for exposure, goodwill, etc., then it needs to budget more funding from the general budget for the program. If it expects 30 and 40-somethings to fill the gap with donations, it is never going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrewprez Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I agree for the most part agree you on this. During my time as a Billiken Basketball fan, I have seen some great games (e.g. Arizona in '03, Iowa NIT in '04, Gonzaga last year, etc.) but the thing that for (lack of a better word) frustrates me is that consistency is lacking. I can see how great this program could be (which is why I am a Billiken fan), but it's the games that offset those great games like losing to the Bonnies the other night or St. Joe's last year that really pull you out of that optimistic mindset. One on hand, it's fun to say before the start of the new season, "this is our year," but on the other hand it is frustrating. I'm selfish: I don't want us to only get a single year of greatness. I would rather spend time developing a consistent winning basketball program than being like George Mason last year or St. Joe's a few years back: having "their year" and then you don't hear from them since. We can be better than that and we WILL be better than that. That's why I do not call for Brad's head on a stick everytime we lose. This is why I became a Billiken fan, why I am still a Billiken fan, and why I will continue to be a Billiken fan long after graduation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I agree with that ... seeing this recruiting budget stat bugs the hell out of me. I just posted on another thread, why would we penny pinch on an area of such great importance to the program. Recruiting is probably 50% of success and we are well below most if not all of the Valley and the A10. It's such a small amount compared to the overall budget. Hell if I was an up and comer coach and I knew those numbers ... I'd tell you thank you, but I'll pass. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 >I agree for the most part agree you on this. During my time >as a Billiken Basketball fan, I have seen some great games >(e.g. Arizona in '03, Iowa NIT in '04, Gonzaga last year, >etc.) but the thing that for (lack of a better word) >frustrates me is that consistency is lacking. I can see how >great this program could be (which is why I am a Billiken >fan), but it's the games that offset those great games like >losing to the Bonnies the other night or St. Joe's last year >that really pull you out of that optimistic mindset. > >One on hand, it's fun to say before the start of the new >season, "this is our year," but on the other hand it is >frustrating. I'm selfish: I don't want us to only get a >single year of greatness. I would rather spend time >developing a consistent winning basketball program than >being like George Mason last year or St. Joe's a few years >back: having "their year" and then you don't hear from them >since. We can be better than that and we WILL be better than >that. That's why I do not call for Brad's head on a stick >everytime we lose. > >This is why I became a Billiken fan, why I am still a >Billiken fan, and why I will continue to be a Billiken fan >long after graduation. I don't think anyone would argue with that. I just think people question, as they did when he was hired, is BS the guy who can turn the corner long term for SLU? I think everyone would like to have a long-term coach, but is he the right one for the job? That is the question? If not, it would seem those 3-5 more years would seem like all of those past frustrating ones. Every coach in America doesn't get 7-10 years to build something, and of those that do, not all of those turn the corner and turn out to be mistakes. And if it all needs to be started over again, something everyone dreads, but may in fact be necessary, why the 4-5 more years? That is the other side of what you are saying. Blindly giving someone an extra 3-5 more years because people don't want turnover in coaches...seems to be a reason that is concerning to me. Progress needs to be evaluated in many areas of being a head coach and what comes with that. What you are saying is....well if you give BS thos extra years and they don't turn out, who cares, SLU hasn't been good anyway, and everyone can sleep better knowing he received ample time. If in fact college basketball is big business and BS makes nice money, ...perhaps it needs to be scrutinized a little tighter. Everyone wants a long term coach with sustainable program. Can BS do it at SLU given his abilities and all other said Admin stuff? That is the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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