Box and Won Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 He's done better than Brad (Sweet 16 in '04) at a school with much tougher academic standards and a much tougher conference than SLU. There's no doubt in my mind that he would have succeeded here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Personally ... It is what this team needs to do to be good, I tried to go along with the uptempo crap ... but fact is we don't have the players to do it. We should have been selective on our opportunities to run ... taken them when they are given ... but overall we need to be playing hard D and stopping the opponent on the offensive boards. This style has led to lazy D, stupid turnovers, and tons of offensive boards being given up. This talk of a slower pace hurting recruiting and the fan base is silly. Lowry plays a slow defensive game and he is one of the guys we keep complaining we lose reruits to ... Sampson does it also, we just lost a recruit to him. The factr is this ... if you win you will recruit better and the fans will come. Period. You can argue all day, but you will just be wrong all day. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 if coach soderberg averages 20 wins and 12 losses and reaches one ncaa and two nit's in the next 3 seasons their records would be identical. that isnt that much. sorry, stallings isnt the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 fan Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 While I agree with you, the season's not lost yet, it was dealt a serious blow last night. Changing coaches, even if you upgrade the salary package, is not nearly enough. The pay for the assistants needs to be increased by an even larger percentage. I believe a large part of our recruiting issues relate to the assistants. Does anyone think they would land jobs on really successful staffs? I sure don't. The recruiting budget needs to be dramatically increased. Support from the boosters needs to increase. I know from discussions with current members of the Department they recognize all of these issues, but don't have the ability to do anything about it. It's a Biondi issue. The predicament we're in now, is the impact a change of coaches would have on recruiting the '08 class. It seems awfully risky to me to make a change and risk a chance at upgrading our local recruiting. There certainly is a position that supports a change in coaches, but we would have to be very fortunate and have a real change in the support of the program to make it work. Some will say that the commitment has already been shown by the administration with the building of the new facility, but I would differ. First, the university has not commited any general funds to the project. Second, the new facility will allow us to CATCH UP to a number of programs we recruit against. We will not have an advantage over programs like MU, U of I, SIU or MSU. Fellows, we're just catching up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 He seems to have Western Illinois going in the right direction, has local contacts and would seem to relate to recruits pretty well. Do not know about how good of coach he is yet, but he would seem to be a pretty good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 You don't think it's asking much to average 20 wins and 12 losses for the next 3 seasons? What precedent do you base this on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 right direction? western was one of the 5 schools with a worst rpi than st bonnies going into last night. they have only won 2 games this season and they have 6 losses to 200+ rpi teams. derek is a nice guy but i dont think he is a head coach at the division one level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 i'm just pointing out that the difference isnt that much and stallings is not a big difference in production. especially considering he is in his 8th year at vandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 That might be a bigger difference than you think since we haven't reached 20 regular season wins in what...10 years? It is a big difference if say we have 2-3 more losses a year than vandy, but those losses are to the likes of St. Bonaventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 come on, western illinois? that's just mopping up the spill on the floor with one-ply toilet paper... if you're going to ignore the problem on the table, at least use that sh!t with the lumberjack on the packaging! i enjoy metaphors. deconstruct this one as you may. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Western Illinois is not exactly Duke or even Illinois State in terms of exposure. There is only so much he can do. In St. Louis, you have to have local contacts. Derek has ties to the area and would seem to be someone recruits could relate to being a young, energetic African American. I am just throwing the name out there as a thought, not advocating his hiring tomorrow. Lord knows he couldn't do any worse than Soderberg or Romar on the recruiting front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 moytoy the point is that he isnt a program changer. he is in almost the exact same scenario in vandy as slu would be and he has had only a slightly better record than what soderberg has had and only one ncaa appearance. why would all at once he come to a lesser conference with a smaller budget and do much better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Ok forget I even bothered to throw the name out there. It was completely ridiculous. I think we should go get Roy Williams. He seems to really respect our team even beating us by 21. I think we have a shot at him. Now that is lunberjack on the packaging - whatever the hell that means. This board has lost all sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 if he couldnt do worse? then why is he in the bottom 5 in the country? you said he was turning the program around but the fact is that in the last 3 years he has went from 276 to 317 and now 331 in the rpi. it appears to me he is obviously worse than soderberg or romar. he is one step from being a high school coach again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 smitty, you actually are zeroing in on the problem. unless you can get the likes of roy williams or pitino, there is no guarantee. you are looking for a needle in a haystack and we have been forever. i have no confidence that with the slu "package" you can attract the program changer you will get the up and coming assistant or the mid or low major head trying to move up. i.e. starting over. the chances of hitting the jackpot (what shimmy appears to be) are like playing the lotto. and in all likelihood we will be here in 5 years arguing the same thing. that is my point. let's build some consistency. let's develop some assistants. let's improve the infrastructure of the program spend more money than what seems reasonable. then make a decision. that decision shouldnt be made until the other aspects have been done first. otherwise you are just recycling the same ole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 And i'm saying that the difference that exists is bigger than you are giving credit for; if there were 2-3 more wins per year at SLU over the last couple of years, that could have translated into post-season play. For an example, look at last year. Win one or two more games and we're probably in the NIT, which is better than no post season play. Now, why would he come to a lesser conference with a smaller budget? i don't know. Would he do much better? i don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Here is a guy that once coached Notre Dame (before him you never heard about ND basketball) and UNC (where he got completely hosed) so you know he has a desire to get back in the spotlight. The guy is a dynamic recruiter and can coach a little bit as well. In fact he was AP National Coach of the Year at UNC. I do not think SLU would be a destination job for him, but in a few years here he could certainly put us on the radar. Even a few exciting years and then breaking our hearts is better than sputtering along in mediocrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 exactly. not a rip on your guy, but we can't keep filling holes w/ mediocre coaches, even great ones. the arena is a great step, a better promotion deal, bigger budget, etc. are great ones to be looked at. i think that if soderberg could guarantee a good recruiting class for next year, and a good to great one for '08, he would have everyone's full support. is there a chance he can deliver this? not a great one, but there is a chance, and the key is this season and how many others he can convince to be "program changers" w/ his son. there's no way a coaching change can fix this season, and a coaching change would surely devastate the next two years of recruitment even further. if i don't see 7-8 "gamers" in our lineup for 2008, i'll start measuring rope with the rest of you, until then, i think soderberg's the best shot we've got. AND - it's not his fault that obi and horace couldn't hack it. plain and simple. esp. obi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I wasn't implying that he would come to SLU now, I was wondering what would have happened had we hired him out of Illinois State instead of Romar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Agree with what you said. If Soderberg is not the answer, we need to be able to hire a real big name coach or find a Shimmy in the rough. You cannot fire Soderberg to hire a Barry Hinson. That would just be running in place. You need to make a hire that makes sense. And, if you cannot get a big name at this point with our mediocre track record, then someone from the STL area with good local ties and someone that recruits may want to play for would be a good idea. I never said I would advocate hiring Derek Thomas tomorrow but if we give Soderberg until next year to prove himself and Western Ill finally makes progress with a good recruiting class or 2, let's look at him. They may be 4-9 but 6 or their losses have been by 4 points or less and all except 1 of their best players are underclassmen. He may be that Shimmy in the rough. Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 we need bonner as an assistant coach, and we need larry hughes flying back between games to buy our recruits steak dinners and tell them that SLU saves lives. that's the only way to get those BIG guys, at least in the immediate future... but yeah, w/out having looked at western illinois too much, except for our game against them, i can't say that that guy isn't at least as good a recruiter as soderberg, from the sounds of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Agree partially about Obi and Horace. Brad cannot follow them to class everyday and make sure they workout and study outside of practice, but this is partially why they were late signees. He put himself in a position where these guys were the only answer to fill a recruiting class. Late signees hardly ever work out. Drejaj was a bit of an exception. Brad needs to start being more successful in the fall signing period so he doesn't put himself in a position of scrounging for players like Obi and Horace who may have been late signees for a reason - grades, work ethic, injury, or otherwise. It would be interesting to start a listing of these type players who both worked out and did not. Floyd McClain I believe was also in this category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 slu72 fan, while the tone of my posts today is to upgrade the infrastructure, just paying the assistants more wont make them better teachers and recruiters. and as you asked, "does anyone think they would land jobs on really successful staffs?" exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 box and won said, "I wasn't implying that he would come to SLU now, I was wondering what would have happened had we hired him out of Illinois State instead of Romar." is stallings as good of a recruiter as romar? no. so had we taken stallings he would have likely done worse than romar did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 sludrew said about hiring matt doherty, "I do not think SLU would be a destination job for him, but in a few years here he could certainly put us on the radar." and then we are starting over again and at the same point. so you would sell your fandom soul for a few years. btw, he was fired at unc because the players demanded it. he lost control of that program. second, do you think recruiting at kansas (asst) and notre dame and unc is akin to slu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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