I am amazed..

[Billikan]

at the unrelenting negativity of some posters and the anti Brad posters like Nark and Cheese--and others who are worse-- who just post the same things over and over and over again. It is impossible to even keep up with the things that are supposedly wrong with the coaches, the players and the program--all this when we have a strong team. Contrary to all of you know it alls who say that all fans are this negative, I know a lot of them who are not negative. I have said it a dozen times--why not wait and see how the team does this season before you do all of this complaining--it is really getting old and it is boring!!

[Sheltiedave]

I can't wait to revisit the Ekker days.

That's what half the board deserves. Fire Soderberg, and the rest of the Boy Scouts. Let's get Irons in here, and open a sneaker stand for Nike or Adidas. Have Sonny visit.

All will be good.

[slu72]

At the intolerance of some posters for others who have a different point of view when it comes to UB. Some of us just don't see him as being the guy to drag SLU out of the swamp of mediocrity. And we have a four year "factual" record of 60-61 to back that up. Again, none of us want him to fail...they just want evidence he's the guy to end this cycle of blase basketball. This year is his final exam. He's got the tools in place, his tools. And no matter how he got them, luck, hard work, sharp evaluator of talent, there are a lot of people out there, not just Bills fans but local and even national media types, who think he's assembeled a pretty solid team. For all the UBBKAC'ers, I'd think you'd be kicking back, licking your chops, and saying, "just wait Nark, Cheese, SLU72,Hardball,RajunCajun, 'til we're dancing so we can serve you up a little Crow...blackened style for the Cajun." If you're that confident in this guy's ability to direct this squad to a successful season, why are you so defensive about him? You shouldn't be amazed at the negativity being directed towards him, because up to this point he deserves it. Unless, of course, a below .500 record amassed by mostly playing some really ugly games is your cup of tea. And as an aside, I don't recall any of the above named Brad Bashers knocking an individual player's skills or character, which you all seem to insinuate we do on a regular basis. For myself, I'm taking the Brad pledge this year. I want him to keep his job, but only if he proves he deserves it. That means, take us dancing.

[slufanskip]

I understand the questions and agree with some of them. Though his positives never seem to get brought into any discussion, and apparently he has some based upon the projections of this years team. I think what he is talking about and I agree is the level and amount of negative posts. If you had no clue, and read this board, you would think we were 40-80 or had been a consistent top 25 team that had slipped and had projections for another horrible season. I guess though ... thats the nature of the beast ... it's so much easier to find something to ***** about and if you do it often enough and about enough subjects ... eventually you will get to claim superiority.

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[AlumniFan]

...there would still be some posters calling for Brad's head. Some people just don't like him and are "glass half empty" types. They are never going to change and the minute we get a new coach, say Roy Williams or Coach K, they will be the first to find fault. It's just the way humanity is.

"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands up for others." - Ben

[slu72]

We all have to have a round table at the A-10 tourney. Some bar where they don't mind loud talk. As to your examples, Skip, 40-80 or top 25 and slipped, in both cases everyone would be screaming for his head on a platter. There would be no Kool Aid club. No basher is saying that here. Show us...this year...is what's being said. Take a poll of the bashers, we'll all agree. UB should stay if he does something really positive, ie go dancing. Gordo, who is a professional objective sportswriter, said as much in his column last week. Bernie the pot stirrer said the same, albeit in a slanted backhanded fashion. There has been a trend developing in college hoops over the past ten years, no longer is the NCAA the sole domain of the biggies. Mid majors and non BCS'ers are rising up and challenging the status quo. Making sweet 16's, some elite eights, and now the final 4. We at SLU look at this and say "hey, what about us?" Who else do you look to for an answer other than the head coach? The brass ring is out there, whether that be making the dance, a run to the sweet 16 or further...it's there. Other schools have done it and continue to do it on a consistent basis, SIU, Zaga, X, to name just a few. But not us. That's bound to create a negative attitude toward the guy in charge, it's human nature. As fans, you have a right to expect better, this year we do. Now, let him deliver it.

[slu72]

C'mon Alumni fan, that's crap. Where was all this negativity during years 1, 2, 3, 4? It started with the the abysmal performance against St. Joes, the three losses to close out a season with an NIT bid or better looking at us square in the face, the botched recruitment of Stemler, and failure to sign anyone other than DM the previous fall. There may have been a trickle of Brad Bashing during his tenure, but most legit posters and fans, not the Too types, were willing to give him a fair shot at righting the ship. His season of reckoning's arrived. And all of us want him to make the most of it.

[cheeseman]

Whoa - I have never said in any posts that Brad should be fired. My comments have been only stated as objective observations - period. You can go back and in previous posts and see that I have laid out 4 evaluation periods to rate Brad thus far. We have gone through 2 of them and I gave him a C+ to a B- depending on how many of the freshmen get to contribute this year. The problem is the next two evalutation periods - Fall and spring signees, this year's record - are still open. I hope like all that the team has a great record, wins the A10 or at least the A10 Conf Tourney, gets a bid to the NCAA, and plays well in that tourney. I hope that Brad gets the two letters returned this Fall signed and he nails a very good late blooming spring recruit. I have also said that I would reserve judgment until these 4 evaluation periods pass. The problem with some of you is the following: 1. Anybody who does not unconditionally support Brad's effort to date is being negative and not a true Billiken fan, 2. Anybody who raises a concern for thought about Brad's success as a recruiter is being negative and not a true Billiken fan, and 3. Anybody who dares to say lets just wait and see how the season goes before we put us in the NCAA is being negative and not a true Billiken fan. I was supportive of Cheryl giving Brad an extension when she came but lets look at what has happened since then: 1. No post season bids - either NCAA or NIT, 2. TL and KL were signed before the extension so who has Brad hit the lotto with since then - he has been scrambling in the spring and summer looking for hidden gems in the late bloomers or fell through the cracks bin, 3. He has a record under 500 - I accept that he made a great turnaround last season but his record last year was about what it was the two years before he went 9-21. Afterall, none of us expected that he would have that bad of record - I know injuries played a part but he did not show that he could be creative enough or willing enough to play his young players to try to turn it around. He finally did when the season was totally lost and he had no other choices. My point is this simply - I am more than willing to reserve judgment on Brad until these 4 evaluation periods are over but if anybody thinks that he is a cinch to score big on the last two you are not being honest. I am not saying he can not but you have to admit that it is a big hill to roll the stone up considering the body of his work thus far.

[TheRaginCajun]

When did I get thrown into the Anti-Brad group? I think we have a very good team going into the season and I think 72's opinion is the same as mine. I have been critical where I see it is warranted and have been very complimentary of what we have heading into this season. I just feel it is necessary to hold people accountable and when I see someone falling short of what I feel is acceptable I am going to talk about it. Why do people have to label us as negative when 72 and I are just being real. I am very happy with the team going into the season, however we did not bring in a quality 4 and this has been an issue from day 1 and we have no committments to this point for this years recruiting class. I think you can point out the positives and still see the negatives without being labeled a negative person.

[brianstl]

Cajun, I don't put you in the Anti-Brad camp. I think you stated your stance pretty well in your post.

[slufanskip]

Come on ... if that is your take from the ABC'ers ... you don't read much. Maybe that is how most of you feel ... and you personally do have some good things to say ... but my question is this ... if we have a team that most of us think can make the tourney ... why are 90% of the posts from the ABC'ers negative? Can we just enjoy the ride and if UB stinks it up ... talk about his head then.

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[ACE]

It certainly is amazing the intolerance some people have for those who hold different opinions. I always thought it was a great American tradition that people could debate different ideas. For a vocal few, everything is framed in such overly simplistic, black and white terms. And if you disagree with somebody, throw a label at them like "anti-Brad."

Poster #1: "I'm excited about this season, but disappointed that we didn't land any recruits this fall signing period." Response: "Oh, there goes the anti-Brad crowd again. We are about to have a great season and all you can do is bash Brad. Some people are so negative."

Poster #1: "I don't think Iraq has WMD and had nothing to do with 9/11. Going over there is an unnecessary diversion which is not addressing the war on terror. I'm also concerned that a civil war could break out considering the religious and ethnic divisions in that country. This is something BushI warned about back in 1991." Response: "Oh, so you hate America first. Hate, hate, hate. Why don't you burn a flag. This is a just war and those who don't agree need to shut up. I'm going to run to the principal now and suggest that we ban political talk, even though I merrily participated in it a few years ago."

[ACE]

>When did I get thrown into the Anti-Brad group? I think we

>have a very good team going into the season and I think 72's

>opinion is the same as mine. I have been critical where I

>see it is warranted and have been very complimentary of what

>we have heading into this season. I just feel it is

>necessary to hold people accountable and when I see someone

>falling short of what I feel is acceptable I am going to

>talk about it. Why do people have to label us as negative

>when 72 and I are just being real. I am very happy with the

>team going into the season, however we did not bring in a

>quality 4 and this has been an issue from day 1 and we have

>no committments to this point for this years recruiting

>class. I think you can point out the positives and still

>see the negatives without being labeled a negative person.

Congratulations Cajun. You've been branded too. Some people are incapable of debating ideas. It's easier for them to demonize and name call.

[slufanskip]

I still think you should wait a bit until you claim we didn't bring in a quality 4. It is ridiculous to claim that none of the 3 4's we brought in are not quality because they didn't start the 1st game of their freshman years.

Rarely do the positives get pointed out on this board except from a select few. The posts are at least 70-30 negative.

I agree ... I wish we had gotten a quality committment.

I think you, 72, and I aren't that far apart. We just express it differently.

I think UB needs to improve in areas. I completely disagree that if our freshman aren't starting in the 1st game than they are a flop ... which has been said here ... quite often.

I agree with going with experience until the younger player has proven himself better ... not just potentially better.

On his style of play ... I like almost everyone else would like to see us utilize our speed more. Not to go fastbreak and pressure crazy. But, I'd like to see us push the tempo as we have early this year. I'd also like to see us get out of the pack ... alot. I don't like it, I can understand the reasons in the past, but not now, even with Luke at the 4. I want to see us stretch the D out a bit and put more pressure on the ball.

Recruiting ... I am dissapointed in no solid committment this fall, but overall I'd say he has been decent. Whenever we got them we have a pretty good team this year and I like our freshman class from what I've seen early. Would I like to have had Stemler? Yes, but I don't think he could defend the 4 any better than Luke, probably worse. He shoots better ... but I think Luke has a better all around game. So no, I don't want him as our starting 4, I would want him in the mix at the 3 ... and to play a little 4 against smaller more athletic teams. I think Luke will have more problem defending the 4 that is 6'7" and 210 who is quick and jumps out of the gym more than he will have defending the 6'8" 240 lb inside bruiser. I don't think he lacks strength or smarts, I do think he lacks quick feet.

I don't even see the glass as half full ... I see it as 3/4 full.

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[slufanskip]

You guys are ridiculous ... go back and reread the posts over the last 2 months. If you don't feel they have a strong negative trend ... your reading comprehension is very poor.

Calling you ABC'ers is just terminology to group together those who are not happy with UB to date ... no different than Calling us Kool-Aid drinkers ... is a way to group us who are generally happy with his work so far together. Neither nickname bother me ... though I am not Completely positive about Brad ... I group myself wit the Kool-Aid drinkers ... for the sake of discussions. when someone says Kool-Aid drinkers ... I put myself in that group. Doesn't offend me.

I don't think any of the ABC'ers ... think he completely sucks and should be fired immediately.

And I don't think any of the Kool-Aid crew think he has been perfect.

Ace ... you kill me ... you ***** more about people not accepting other points of view ... while never accepting any other point yourself. You are the Pot calling the kettle black. Way to find a way to bring politics into the discussion.

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[Billiken Rich]

No one could ever accuse you of name calling either. Your panting about intolerance is getting old and threadbare. Get some new material ;-)

[brianstl]

Poster #1: "I'm excited about this season, but disappointed that we didn't land any recruits this fall signing period." Response: "Oh, there goes the anti-Brad crowd again. We are about to have a great season and all you can do is bash Brad. Some people are so negative."

ACE show me one person who has said that who has been labeled AB for posting what you did above. Not one. The ones that get labeled AB are the ones that start calling for his head now.

Also, let the war stuff go. This is a basketball board. I was not on here when that stuff occurred and I am glad I wasn't. Wow somebody on a web board gave you a hard time. What are you five years old? Get over it. It is not like this board is part of a vast right wing conspiracy. Steve worked on a Democratic Party supporting web site on election night.

[ACE]

Thanks for keeping me in line Rich. This board is so much more civil without politics. LOL!

[AlumniFan]

Good job ACE. True to form. Always have to get the YOUR political view foisted upon others.

I really wish the moderators would address this issue and start locking these threads, otherwise ACE is going to keep doing this crap.

And let's face it, your views are not different, they are hateful. It has nothing to do with Billiken basketball, you just are ENORMOUSLY INTOLERANT of anyone who disagrees with you. You viciously jump people who have a different opinion and then there is no room for discourse. EVERY TIME I have offered you an olive branch to bury the hatchet or to debate things via PMs instead of going on the main BASKETBALL board, you have ignored my offers because you are so hateful toward a different view and so hateful towards those who disagree with you. You just cannot let it go. YOU are always the instigator. Every time. Virtually every other poster on this board has let the political dogs lie, but you simply cannot.

I wish the moderators would simply delete threads where posters fire off political salvos, no matter how cleverly disquised they are (although this is one of the WORST disguises ever) so that people like ACE would stick to basketball instead of descending into attacks on others.

But alas, some people just enjoy stirring up the pot and creating discord rather than talking about Billiken basketball. Sure is the indiscretion of youth.

"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands up for others." - Ben

[ACE]

brian, look at the way a good fan like slu72 has been branded. He has brought up several reasonable criticisms and gotten branded for it. As for the political stuff, if you weren't here at the time, you can't make an informed comment about it. I bring it up because it is very similar to some of the witch hunts we are seeing now on this board.

[ACE]

Of course he wants to lock another thread.

[TheRaginCajun]

I am not saying none of these young forwards will turn-out. I feel it is kind of ridiculous that we went from starting Chris Sloan at the 4, out of position, to now starting Luke Meyer at the 4, who is also out of position. I was not trying to belittle Obi, Horace, or Adam in anyway and I am willing to give those guys time to develop before forming an opinion on them. I was on here long ago saying Horace and Obi would not be that immediate answer some on here were expecting. I am just a little upset that those three in adition to JJ are the best we can do at this point at that position going into Brad's 5th season, especially when I go to the MVC tournamnet and see some of the 4s in that league playing for nearby teams.

I am not as negative as you all apparently think I am. I am constantly being evaluated on anything and everything I do at my job, so why can't I do the same with the program nearest to my heart.

[slu72]

throwing you to the wolves, Cajun. We needed you there to upgrade out credibility. Hey, I got some left over Blue Kool Aid...you want it?

[brianstl]

I don't think anybody has branded 72 AB. Hell he is nervous about the recruiting and optimistic about the season, pretty much the same as me. I just think the recruiting will work out if we take care of business on the court. Nobody has confused 72 with Hardball and Nark. What is wrong with being label AB or a Kool-Aid drinker? Part of the fun of this board is the back and fourth between the two groups. I am not upset about being tossed in with the Kool-aid drinkers. Drop the paranoia and the politics.

[TheRaginCajun]

72, I would say you and I are on the same page as far as our views of the program and I think the vast majority of SLU fans in general. If the Billikens make it to the tournament this year 72, we will have to go to the game and drink some "Blue Kool Aid" with Rich, Roy, and the boys.