VTIME Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 He played well. He was sticking the outside jumper as he always has outside of a Billiken uniform. I dont know what Brad did to him, but its reminiscent of what Norm Stewart did to Johnnie Parker. Polk knows who Dustin Fox is now, if he didnt before. He was the 6'3 light-skinned guy who was killing Polk's team with the 3 point bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 6'3" guy shooting at will over polk? that's something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 If DP has indeed improved his shot...he should start. His quickness and defense, despite some 6'3" guy was scoring on him, bring an added dimension. If we get any good minutes at the 4, we can go up tempo where TL's jamming ability comes into play, KL gets open 3's, and Polk either a threat to blow by you for a layup or stop and pop the 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I completly agree 72. You still can run the offense thru TL when you get set on the offensive end. I think good shooting DP this year could be more important than what we get from the 4 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Two things. VTime's post didn't say that this 6'3 kid scored on him, he said this player scored on Polk's team. Vee also didn't mention anything about Polk's shot being improved. He claims that Polk always shoots well outside of a SLU uniform. I remember him mentioning last summer that Polk dropped around 40 in a Bonner League game. I don't think it's a question of Polk improving his shot. According to Brad, Polk shot 40% from 3 in the preseason practices last year. Then invariably he shortarms the majority of his shots during actual games. I really feel for the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 shooting is a lot easier in a pick up game against NAIA talent than it is against D1 players in front of 10,000 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think Polk could start along with Tommie and Kevin at the guard positions, but it is not what I would personally like to see. I think Polk is a quality player who is most useful coming off the bench to provide a spark. He has not shown the ability to provide that spark for an extended period of time. I think we all agree that Tommie is best utilized when he runs the point and runs the show. This leaves Polk playing as an off-guard on offense and I think his inability to hit outside shots would allow teams to help off of him. I picture the defense many teams played against Pulley during his brief time at Mizzou, where they basically dared him to shoot it. Polk is fast as lightning, but hasn't shown that he can really use it productively. When he was playing the point he would sprint down the court as fast as he could and repeatedly pull back never really showing the ability to make a play or make things happen. I personally like him best coming off the bench to run a little and hound the other teams point guard for about 15 minutes a game. I think Danny Brown and Luke Meyer provide better options, with Danny having the most potential to provide a real impact at that position. I think Danny provides all of the things Polk could with better shooting ability and size. Luke gives a quality player who is going to get after it on both ends of the court and a guy who can hit open shots, although he has not proven that as of yet. I love having three quality juniors with experience competing for that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Latsch Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 >shooting is a lot easier in a pick up game against NAIA >talent than it is against D1 players in front of 10,000 >people. I've heard there's no difference between NAIA talent and NBA talent. Those kids just never got noticed and didn't have a chance to play high-major Division I ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 It all depends on Polk's ability to hit the outside shot. If Plok can hit at a respectable rate ,he is the best option. He is better defender agianst guick guards, ball handler, and better ball distributor out of a trio of him, Danny, and Luke. Tommy doesn't need to bring the ball up the court for you to run the offense thru him. In fact, against the press Polk is the best option. It all depends on Polk's ability to hit in games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 It MUST be something brad did to Polk. Here are my initial thoughts: - He makes him wear weighted shoes - He forces him to do a 2 hour chest, shoulder, and arms workout before every game to fatigue his muscles and alter his shot - He numbs is hands with cortizone shots I think it's all a conspiracy against Flyd Irons. Brad foresee the problems with Floyd, went after Polk, and then did these things to Polk to get back at Floyd. Not saying Polk won't find his way and I hope he does, but face it, some kids are great high school players and can't cut it at the D1 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 >>shooting is a lot easier in a pick up game against NAIA >>talent than it is against D1 players in front of 10,000 >>people. > >I've heard there's no difference between NAIA talent and NBA >talent. Those kids just never got noticed and didn't have a >chance to play high-major Division I ball. If Polk really wants to get his game back, he needs to work out in the off-season with some of the Vashon alumni. Or maybe he could hire Floyd as his personal trainer -- I've heard Floyd has some free time recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Polk is the best ballhandler out of the group and I think he gets the minutes in a situation where the other team is pressing. From the first season in the A-10 it did not seem like many teams did that to us. I agree that Tommie doesn't have to bring the ball up the court to run the offense thru him, but that still leaves Polk as an off-guard during the offensive possession. Anyone can bring the ball up the court if the other team is not pressing, so I am not sure what you are getting at with that statement. Tommie is the playmaker and that is the role that Polk was expected to fill when he came in. I just don't see why you would start a 5'9 kid out there as an off-guard when he can't shoot and isn't needed to create for other players. You referenced his defensive quickness, but Lisch can handle any guard defensively, so I don't think Polk or the other guard spot in general is needed too much in that capacity. Polk has shown me very little as far deserving of the other starting guard spot. Danny is a guy who has all the ability to be a lock-down defender and can really take the ball to the hoop off the dribble, although he seems to be a little out of control at times. I just think Danny or Luke is a better fit in the starting rotation. Tommie and Kevin give you two guys in the starting five who have the ability to run the point and Kevin has the ability to guard anyone in the conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 successful teams dont beat the press with some waterbug dribbling through the defenders. you beat the press by passing in front of the traps. you answered the question when you said, "I just don't see why you would start a 5'9 kid out there as an off-guard when he can't shoot and isn't needed to create for other players." if polk wants to play double digit minutes his track speed has to translate to offensive efficiency. not just sprints to the half line. if he cant convert either by shooting or assists, he is no more than a 4 minute blow for lisch or tommie. imo, the third guard spot is luke's to lose. someone has to beat him out. and i would think the only really competitor is danny brown not dwayne polk. that said, the fact polk is likely the second fastest billiken (david burns) in the last 30 years will undoubtedly give him his opportunity and if he turns the corner, what a great problem to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Very good points Roy. However, I do think that Polk is valuable against teams that have a legitimate press. Quick and crisp passing is the key to beating a press, but often times teams that press affectively take those easy passing lanes away and you need guys who can dribble thru it to some extent. I think Kevin is capable of this against an average press and Polk probably would not be needed. Last year it seemed like anytime a team pressed against us when Polk was in the game it was a non-factor because of his ability to slash thru it. Polk can be a one-man press breaker similar to how Marque was and that can be valuable. If you merely pass to beat a press you can loose valuable time on the shot clock and often times the more passes thrown, the more likely that there will be a turnover. This is where having a guy who can beat a press with little effort is valuable; you keep the ball and have more time to run your offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Roy, you don't think Dwayne is one of the best passers on the team? FGWL, I agree that Kevin is a great defender, but I don't think he can lock down the super quick guards. Our best defense last year at creating turnovers was with Polk on the court. I know this will p.o. Roy, but it is true. If the team is going push the ball and try to create turnovers they will need Polk out there. But, if Polk shoots like he did last year this is all for not. Then every team we face will lay off him. He won't have a chance set anybody up or use his speeed to get in the lane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think you have it backward. Beating the press by passing allows a team to attack the press defense once past half court. Any team can pass a ball faster than DP can dribble through it. Getting the ball upcourt without a turnover is a draw (the keep pressing), getting the ball upcourt and attacking for easy baskets breaks the press. We do that twice in a row and the press stops. Marquee and Polk are effective getting the ball up court, but the energy and time expended hurts a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I don't know of many super quick guards out there that Kevin cannot match-up with. I would be under the impression that there are more guards who have the size that give them the advantage going up against Polk than there are guards who are too quick for Lisch. I don't think we necessarily need Polk out there to play more of a transition game and I don't think our defense is geared at forcing turnovers. I tend to believe that having a successful transition game is more about securing defensive rebounds and making good outlet passes and then having guys who can push the pace than it is about forcing turnovers. Brad's teams seem to be good defensive teams because they get after it and adhere to the system very well, they seem to frustrate teams with how solid they play defensively. Teams that force a lot of turnovers tend to gamble a lot and I don't think Brad wants his players gambling too much. I think turnovers will come from Kevin hounding his man, but I don't think Brad is going to ask his guys to go out there and become the new "40 Minutes of Hell." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 fgwl said, "Polk can be a one-man press breaker similar to how Marque was and that can be valuable." dwayne polk is not marque perry. at least not yet. maybe a marque as a freshmen, but nothing close to the marque we all remember those last two seasons. if our success against the press was going to be decided by giving marque the ball and turning him loose, that scares me. i would much prefer to see kevin and tommie handle that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 brianstl asked, "you don't think Dwayne is one of the best passers on the team?" in order, tommie kevin ian luke dwayne the fact he had the ball in his hands constantly for a season and a half and had the few assists he did proves he is no great passer. as to creating turnovers, i'd take kevin any day over polk. whereas the steals may not show up in the box score, the pressure he exudes was indeed creating more havoc than we have seen since the days of john redden or carlos mccauley imo. yes i think polk had a great game vs xu here in st louis, especially defensively. but that wasnt the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Turnovers are the easy it way to create transition baskets. I think steals can be overrated, too. But, how many good teams can you name that end up losing the turnover battle every game to their opponents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I do not advocate dribbling to beat a press, but with guys like Polk and Marque I feel comfortable doing it that way. Passing can be quicker if guys have clean passing lanes and execute the passes. Guys have to be able to pass the ball quickly and be able to see the court well. Your players also have to have the physical ability to get open to receive the pass and then catch the ball and make a good decision once they have the ball. This is the case at Duke, where they often have four or five guys who you feel comfortable with the ball in their hands and they seem to beat most presses with five good passes in less than six seconds. I don't know if SLU has that ability. Kevin, Tommie, and Drejaj did not consistently show the ability to remain calm and pass to beat the press last season. I thought Polk showed the ability to get open for the inbounds pass and dribble thru the press in very little time and real effort. Polk was honestly the only guy I really felt comfortable with as far as consistently beating a press. Tommie seemed to get lazy at times, Kevin got moving too fast at times, and Drejaj did not seem to be capable of making good decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Roy, obviously I do not think Polk is on the same level as Marque or I would not be saying he should be coming off the bench. Polk is your most legitimate pg when it comes to beating a press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Roy, your bias is showing. If we weren't talking about Lisch, would you really be asserting that a kid who averaged only 1.3 apg while playing 30 mpg with an assist/turnover of .76 is really our 2nd best passer? Luke a better passer than Polk? I won't even dignify that with a comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Roy, I think his assist total can be directly related to his shooting precentage. Nobody had to play on him. His guy could help out on other people. This directly result in the rest of the team not getting as many open looks or driving lanes. Thus, when he was in there last year he didn't have the chances to set other people up. It will be exactly the same this year, if he still can not nail a jumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Turnovers do lead to easy baskets, but I don't think we should try to become UAB. I think playing sound defense and getting after your men will force teams into turnovers and being sound on the offensive end will limit turnovers. I think discipline wins the turnover battle as much as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.