SLUDrew Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I looked around a little bit more about Andrew Beinert since I was skewered for questioning why we has an offer from us. He was second-team All Long-Island and 5th team All State Class A (mid-size class in NY). He has offers from Stony Brook, Fairfield, and Boston U amongst others. None of the mentioned accolades really get one giddy with excitement. So, you say we are getting in a kid before he takes off and gets bigger offers and accolades. What has this staff done to give you the impression they can eye talent that others haven't? My point in all of this is aren't there a lot of guys just like this guy in the metro area? Don't get me wrong, I am all for SLU going national to recruit players. This kid up in Minnesota seems real promising. I am very happy with the staff for getting him to consider SLU. However, for mid-major talent like this Beinert kid seems to be why not get it locally? Secondly, doesn't this kid make anyone fear that we are just continuing down the same path of being constantly out-athleticized? Don't we have enough Andrew Beinerts on this team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 He might be terrific. He might be Drew Deiner. His accomplishments to this point do not merit awe. Nor do they merit disdain. It is hardly a manifestation of blind faith to not rag on a recruit, none of us have ever seen...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Do you not question this offer at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Since we are not consistently recruiting Top 100 players or McDonalds All-Americans I think it is important that we let these things run there course and not get too high or too low on specific recruits. I remember a lot of excitement for Justin Johnson and a lot of disappointment in Anthony Drejaj as recruits. However, I am really excited about some future high-major players who will be coming out of the area in Suggs, Brandenburg, and Griffey. Thanks for the information on the kid. If someone were willing to do it, I think it would be awesome to have a page with information on recruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 "What has this staff done to give you the impression they can eye talent that others haven't?" I would like to reiterate this question as i asked it on another thread. Any responses? This is not a bash on Brad, i'm attempting to ask this as objectively as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 tell me the local point guards you would rather have in this next recruiting class? plus, remember we are also recruiting the point guard in chicago. didnt we hear rhetoric last week about offering more than one person per scholarship? now a few offers are uncovered as being out there and you are upset about that? it sounds from the description that this is a crediable offer. in fact he reminds me from the description of the mullins kid at siu which turned out to be a very nice pickup for the saluki's. back in the day, romar was crucified here for only chasing top 50 picks and coming in second. then soderberg was crucified for not recruiting locally and missing out on ahearn. so what's he do? he brought in most of the top local players in two consecutive recruiting classes. then soderberg was crucified for limiting himself to local high schoolers and not putting more and sooner offers on the table. now we know he has numerous offers out there some to local players some very early, and now you are upset because last years elite 8 teams arent recruiting the same player. why dont you outline exactly what coach soderberg needs to do to make you happy because it sure seems he cant win with drew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Count me in as one of those guys willing to drop blind faith. With what, however, shall I replace it? All-seeing faith? I'm not ragging on you SLUdrew but please suggest something for me to place on the closet shelf if blind faith is not there. The rest of the monsters hiding in my closet won't know what to do if there is a sudden barren space there where blind faith used to rest. Seriously, what do you do? Short of replacing the entire staff, is there a readily available option sitting out there? Unfortuantley I don't see one. And I am with those calling for Brad to be on the chopping block this year if improvement isn't readily apparent. Having said that, I would think that an interesting dilemma now faces SLU. Namely, what do you do if the improvement is not there this year? Do you let the staff go ... knowing full well that a supposed monster class is out there in the suburbs only one year removed from college committments? If you believe, as I do, that the main reason a kid goes to a school is mostly the coach and staff, is it the right time to be starting over with a new staff, potentially a staff that has not had contact with the purported big class in the metro area? As for your comment on being "out-athleticized" that might have been the case in the old CUSA. I can't see that as being the same year-in and year-out in the A10. Beinert woudl be a freshman in Liddell's junior year and Polk's senior year. Seems like a legitimate need to me. Talent base is pretty deep in the NYC area and Long Island is a part of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 i doubt many coaches thought the same of ian that coach soderberg did. he was telling us from day one he would be the best billiken center ever. boy i didnt see it. but it sure looks like that is coming true. but my counter question is are we going to judge a coaching staff by uncovering hidden gems consistently? that seems like a strange criteria. i think what cheryl needs to do is go steal either ben howland or jay wright as a coach. that might make everyone happy. i honestly am beginning to think that there is a group of fans here that beleive it is that easy. fire soderberg, and then just go get the likes of ben howland or jay wright or roy williams or coach k. i can see it now: moytoy, billsboy, hardball, davidnark and drew on the committee. sitting in hard folding chairs are howland, wright, williams and k chairman drew tells the group that unfortunately the billikens cannot hire all of them and it is up to them to individually convince the committee why they should each be hired. one by one they start bidding against each other to take the job for less money and promise accomplishments. in the end by a close vote, the committee agrees to hire roy williams but wright and howland both agree to come as assistants but only if mike anderson comes as well to run the offense. they get on the phone and anderson flies up immediately to join the team. now it all makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Roy, in Illinois and Missouri alone there are 15 point guards in the class of 2007 who are rated higher than Beinert and have yet to sign. How about one of them? Then again, why would we want to create local ties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 >I looked around a little bit more about Andrew Beinert since >I was skewered for questioning why we has an offer from us. >He was second-team All Long-Island and 5th team All State >Class A (mid-size class in NY). He has offers from Stony >Brook, Fairfield, and Boston U amongst others. None of the >mentioned accolades really get one giddy with excitement. > >So, you say we are getting in a kid before he takes off and >gets bigger offers and accolades. What has this staff done >to give you the impression they can eye talent that others >haven't? > >My point in all of this is aren't there a lot of guys just >like this guy in the metro area? Don't get me wrong, I am >all for SLU going national to recruit players. This kid up >in Minnesota seems real promising. I am very happy with the >staff for getting him to consider SLU. However, for >mid-major talent like this Beinert kid seems to be why not >get it locally? > >Secondly, doesn't this kid make anyone fear that we are just >continuing down the same path of being constantly >out-athleticized? Don't we have enough Andrew Beinerts on >this team? I dont understand what it is Beinert can do that Anthony James can't do. Can he score? James can, he had 30 points in his first varsity game and averaged 16 or 17 for the season. Can he jump? James had a dunk in his first varsity game and averaged 6 rebounds a game from the guard position. Is he exceptionally quick? James is. Is he a good defender? James was 2nd in the conference and one of the area leaders in steals. Is he a big game player? Anthony James is. He hit the game winning 3 pointer in the 3rd place game of the Normandy tourney at the buzzer. He 25 point game in districts against the states #1 team Vashon where he shot 12 of 18 from the field and did a great job on the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 so you are comparing new york kids to the public high kids? so where is james going next year then vtime? who did the billikens lose out to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 we are recruiting the second highest point guard in chicago as well. that was posted last week. that is one. now if you mean there are 15 local point guards in the immediate st louis area that is being more highly recruited that will be a senior next year, please list them for me so i can start following them. i enjoy watching good local players as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 you could argue that would be all the more reason to bring in a coach who can RECRUIT the big-time player. I will concede that Kramer could be a huge asset in getting some of those guys to sign, but do we hold on to a coach because his son has made buddies on his AAU team? Look, I have said countless times that Brad deserves this up-coming season to see what he can do with this team he has assembled. I just don't think he is a big-time type coach who will take this program to the next level. I think he recruits like he coaches, more not to lose than to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 I never said in St. Louis. I said there are 15 ranked higher in Missouri and Illinois. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 and i pointed out that slu has already and before the offer to the new york kid, offered one of the illinois point guards. so again, i just dont understand your point. you want them to offer a somewhat local. they did as well as this other kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Well Damn ... we do agree on something ... at least partially. I agree he deserves this season ... I just don't like the but if it doesn't work out your fired thing hanging over a coaches head. If you aren't firing him then support him ... If you decide to fire him next year ... then fire him ... all the what if's are just that what if's. What if he makes the tourney this year ... how much time does that buy him? What if he makes the 2nd round, does that buy an extra year? What if he makes 3 years in a row ... how many years then? Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 "but my counter question is are we going to judge a coaching staff by uncovering hidden gems consistently? that seems like a strange criteria." Because, as most of us agree, SLU isn't going to win a lot of battles for the top tier talent. Consequently, the coaching staff has a need to find good players in the tiers below the upper echelon. Therefore, I'm going to judge the coaching staff on its ability to find solid recruits in these lower tiers. This isn't strange, in fact, it probably leads to a more informative discussion about the coaching staff's abilities. Throw out the Larry Hughes' and the VN's and judge the staff on what's in between. That's odd? Secondly, Roy, you are a coward. You often times lump people together and make up some remedial caricature of what is being asked, yet you often avoid tough questions put to you. Instead, you deflect comments and questions by responding with these silly scenarios. Ultimately, that leads to off-topic arguments, which are many times instigated by you because of the silly things you say. Many of us are critical of UB. I usually attempt to support my criticisms with evidence. When i cannot support a point, I attempt to point out my opinion and ask an objective question to gather evidence which either supports or contradicts my opinion and ultimately, i refine my opinion based on this evidence (see my post above). I have questioned Brad's decisions or methods. And if you are still reading, I also give Brad praise. I give Brad praise for finding Ian. That was a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 And if Beinert leapfrogs in the guru rankings next month, as he gets more exposure in his first and only year on the AAU circuit, would that suddenly make him a worthy recruit in your eyes? Sorry but coaching staffs doesn't have the luxury of waiting on the almighty Scout rankings to shake out, they have to make decisions in the present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 >so you are comparing new york kids to the public high kids? > >so where is james going next year then vtime? who did the >billikens lose out to? Hmm, what was the name of that team that gave the state of New York's #1 rated team their first loss of the season? VASHON. James will either be Normandy or Vashon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 just curious ... what year is the james kid ... an upcoming sophomore? Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 James is class of 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsboys Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 > Well Damn ... we do agree on something ... at least >partially. I agree he deserves this season ... I just don't >like the but if it doesn't work out your fired thing hanging >over a coaches head. If you aren't firing him then support >him ... If you decide to fire him next year ... then fire >him ... all the what if's are just that what if's. What if >he makes the tourney this year ... how much time does that >buy him? What if he makes the 2nd round, does that buy an >extra year? What if he makes 3 years in a row ... how many >years then? > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. >Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players >and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Skip, thanks for the pub on all your posts. This posts talks about Sods getting fired, don't you mean to say he want's to spend more time with his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsboys Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 >we are recruiting the second highest point guard in chicago >as well. that was posted last week. that is one. > >now if you mean there are 15 local point guards in the >immediate st louis area that is being more highly recruited >that will be a senior next year, please list them for me so >i can start following them. i enjoy watching good local >players as well! Roy, I think it's time for the self imposed vacation again. You take a few day's off and now your back posting more than ever!! Also, I seem to be involved in a lot of your posts. Your obsession with me is scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 my obsession? i wasnt the one that out of the blue posted on stltoday a warning to posters to be wary of billiken roy when i havent posted on that board for a number of days. now that is an obsession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Best recruits Ian, Kevin, Tommie, Reggie, Tom Frerichs this group are players that out performed my expectations when healthy. Many on this Board discounted Ian as slow andpoor recruit as a freshman. BS did not as a freshman he said ian would one of the best centers in SLU history. Talk about recruiting, getting tommie to commit TWICE, deserves an extra cudo, not to many kidswith TL skills would do that. Good Recruits DB, LM, DP, BH This group are players who have the ability to play D-1 ball, yet have at times out performed expectations, but more oftenhave been mediocre, good recruits but not great, yet with two years left to play have the chance improve. Perhaps BH here is a leap of faith but I expect good things from him backing up ian and startingasa senior. Average or Bad VN just did not pan out was not horrible, but not what we needed at SF.......some might point out BS' statement about making our team better....but remember a coach needs to say something positive. Clark never got into the starting rotation, seemed to have skills JJ has the skills but really was a desperate recruiting target. Too soon to tell Obi might be a great pick up.... DM AK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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