Point Guard picks Mizzou

[Box and Won]

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[billiken_roy]

thicks, go to slubillikens.com and click on the billiken club link and then the booster guidelines link. to find the following:

"Are You A Representative Of The University's Athletics Interest?

You are considered a "Representative of the University's Athletics Interests" (a booster) if you:

Are or have been a member of any organization promoting the SLU Athletics Departments.

Have ever made a donation to the Athletics Departments, to a men's or women's athletic program, or to any booster organization.

Have ever assisted in evaluating or recruiting prospects.

Have ever helped to arrange or have provided employment to enrolled student-athletes, prospects, or a prospect's parents or relatives.

Have promoted the University's athletics programs.

Once you become a Representative of the University's Athletics Interests, YOU retain this status FOREVER!

As a "Representative of the University's Athletics Interests," you are bound by NCAA, C-USA and Saint Louis University rules. Saint Louis University is RESPONSIBLE for your actions!

Five Rules Of Thumb For Friends Of SLU Athletics:

(1) Only coaches and athletic department staff members can be involved in the recruiting process.

(2) A prospect remains a prospect even after signing a National Letter of Intent or financial aid agreement to attend the University. The prospect's status does not change until initial full-time enrollment at the University or until the prospect begins official team practice immediately prior to the start of classes.

(3) Do not provide any "extra benefits" or make special arrangements for the prospect or to an enrolled student-athlete.

(4) You can assist the coaching staff in the recruiting process by notifying them of any student you think would be a strong addition to the institution's athletic program. The coach can then make the appropriate contact with the prospect.

(5) As an athletics representative, you are not precluded from continuing friendships with the families of prospective or enrolled student-athletes. You simply cannot encourage a prospect's participation in a specific institution's athletics program or provide benefits to student-athletes that you were not providing before they became prospects or enrolled student-athletes."

now after reading that, surely you can see that demetrious johnson is a "tiger booster" per the ncaa. and remember, as detailed about, the tiger program is responsible for the actions of their boosters.

now if you are telling me that demetrious johnson had a long term previous relationship with jason horton's dad, please explain how. but i am guessing that is not the case. and if that is not the case, i find it hard to believe that jason horton's dad had any "needed" attributes to make this game more successful or add to the game that some local coach could not have provided as good if not better plus free. after all, isnt the game all about getting money for the charity? didnt the expense of bringing in daddy horton lower the bottom line of the event? as taj said, horton being paid to coach that game and now his kid committing to missouri really pushes the boundaries imo. but we have now seen in every single tiger recruit since quin came to columbia the swirl of smoke.

[Billiken Rich]

One of the few interesting moments in the movie "Blue Chips" was when a player comes up to the coach and asks if he transfers to a different school will his mom have to give up her booster granted job. If that's gray area then it proves just how lax the rules are.

[billiken_roy]

actually skip, duke was brought under the microscope last year when it was leaked that high friends and boosters of the duke program gave carlos boozer's dad and chris duhon's mom extravagent jobs, homes and vehicles in the durham area upon the arrival of their son's to the duke campus. they were getting 6 figure salaries for being basically file clerks. whether it is legal or not is one thing, but there is precedence. and maybe that is what quin is hanging his hat on is that the funds went to dad, not the kid.

[Quality Is Job 1]

By inviting Darren Horton to coach at his charity all-star game, did Demetrious Johnson violate any NCAA rule?

[billiken_roy]

i say if horton was compensated, he did.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Expenses are not funds.

[Quality Is Job 1]

"Hopefully this horton character won't strangle any body, have a mediocre career at MU and graduate to work for a major metropolitan news paper in some other city."

I assume you mean he WON'T strangle anyone, WILL have a mediocre career, and WILL graduate.

[billiken_roy]

we dont know that do we? we dont know if he stayed at the ritz, or the hampton inn. we dont know if he ate at tony's or denny's. we dont know if there was a basket of twenty dollar bills or one mint on his pillow when horton got to his room. that is our gray area. my question is why werent those questions asked then when it would have been fresh in everyone's mind. instead now everyone is probably "unconscious".

it could easily be hid in the accounting for the event as well, so no sense in checking the paperwork. chalk it up to another victory in smoke.

[slufanskip]

I was aware of the Duke situation and the rules on being a booster.

This is ridiculous that there is even a question.

DJ's game is a charity ... now why would you pay the expenses to fly someone in to coach this game?

If he came at his own expense ... then my sincerest apologies ... but if DJ even paid his expenses ... Mizzou is again walking the tightrope on the rules.

If he was paid even a dime .... then it should be a rules violation.

With that said ... I wonder how Duke can get away with the employment of parents at outrageous salaries. The NCAA picks and chooses who they want to nail ... the rules are outrageous. Some of the things that you cannot do ... and then some of the things they let go ... how do they justify it? anyone know?

[MUTGR]

Roy, talk about pushing the envelope. You state: "but we have now seen in every single tiger recruit since quin came to columbia the swirl of smoke."

Tell me what specific allegations there were concerning

Kareem Rush, Travon Bryant, Josh Kroenke, Robert Whaley, Jeffrey Ferguson, Wesley Stokes, Duane John (there was literally smoke involved in his leaving the program), Najeeb Echols, Jimmy McKinney, Spencer Laurie, Linas Klienza, Dandridge, who else am I forgetting at this point?

Arguably you have some "smoke" with:

Johnson & Paulding, but that has been addressed and was considered minor by the NCAA.

Clemons. Stay tuned. Maybe flames there.

Conley. He's eligible.

You're trying to manufacture smoke with Horton. I don't see it.

Don't give me that unsubstantiated crap about McKinney and his ACT.

There were no allegations of recruiting shenanigans with Whaley or Ferguson. Whaley was a bad character that probably shouldn't have been recruited in the first place. The fact their legal guardian was Tony Harvey's father does not equate to illegal recruiting. Ever hear of Danny Manning?

Kareem Rush's issues were with what he accepted from an AAU coach prior to coming to MU. As far as I know, there were no implications that MU's staff was invovled in any of that.

Right now by my count you have smoke with at most 3 of MU's recruits. While I'm not ruling out the possibility that there's more to come (hell, there probably is), there is no factual basis for your blanket statement.

[slufanskip]

I don't think everyone has it in for Mizzou. I for one do not. I am not per se a fan ... but I am a big 12 fan and like to see all the teams do well. In fact I'd like to see Mizzou win the Big 12 north every year.

I don't think there is any denying that Quin and his regime needs to go at Mizzou. He skirts the rules over and over ... of course no one can realistically say on every recruit ... but on enough. He now has Mizzou in a situation that could and I would venture to say probably will bring them heavy penalties.

Mizzou has not been a bad boy of College Bball in the past ... such as Cinci and the like, but they are quickly becoming a school with a very bad reputation. It is time to clean house and bring in a coach and an administration that will do it right.

[Billiken Rich]

Exactly what I meant! I have an unbelievable amount of confidence that you'll always be around to correct me .

[billiken_roy]

mutiger said,

"Tell me what specific allegations there were concerning Kareem Rush, Travon Bryant, Josh Kroenke, Robert Whaley, Jeffrey Ferguson, Wesley Stokes, Duane John (there was literally smoke involved in his leaving the program), Najeeb Echols, Jimmy McKinney, Spencer Laurie, Linas Klienza, Dandridge, who else am I forgetting at this point?"

if you think the whole rush family thing wasnt a pile of smoke that made any moves by the two boys suspicious then i dont know what the point is of even responding to this whole post. but i will play along. the fact that kareem was in the middle of such a nasty aau mess that involved piggy ending up in prison and kareem being suspended for a good part of his freshman season sure makes any involvement with kareem murky at best. sure nothing was ever associated with missouri rulewise, but still when looking back, it makes you wonder.

bryant, the guy who couldnt pass his act heads off to maine and miraculously passes once away from the hustle and bustle of l.a. he packs his bags and heads to missouri to start school in december.

kroenke, seems to be a hard working good kid. but if drew diener is questioned for being good enough to be on the billiken roster, what the heck is this kid's purpose on a much more talented tiger team? is he the money guy?

whaley, why wasnt he dropped immediately for scholarship options as soon as he ran into trouble?

ferguson, i think i qualified my statement to mean impact players. i dont consider ferguson such. but even then, i dont like the "buddy system" when recruiting. it smells.

stokes, more of the buddy system recruiting as i believe he was instrumental to getting bryant.

johns, another non impact player.

echols, was heading elsewhere. i remember following his recruiting because early on, romar was in on echols early list. missouri wasnt though. echols reversed his decision out of nowhere. my concern with echols recruiting was more as to what he was promised to get him to columbia. imo, he was probably promised a much bigger role than what he actually got (stokes the same) as they expressed as much in there getaway statements. now there is nothing illegal about that per ncaa guidelines, but ethically i do have a problem with that.

mckinney, if you are taking the act rumors out of the picture, then i guess there is no smoke there. but that is you, i still consider the act questions valid questions.

laurie my question all along with laurie is whether or not he would have been recruited to missouri if his last name wasnt laurie. and does his value to the team become the next money man for his teamates?

paulding has act questions swirling around his head as well as jetgate.

johnson has jetgate.

conley may be cleared to play, that doesnt mean that missouri is cleared on his recruitment. it has already been shown that they cheated on the timing of the calls to his mother.

the kink in kleinza is he hasnt really signed anything. again that may not be smoke, but it is definitely another instance of a recruit that isnt a smooth transaction.

as to the new recruits, i have nothing to comment on any of them except horton.

[jwd789]

So basically alot of it are rumors you hear.

[billiken_roy]

what do you think we mean by smoke? give us an example of another program that right now has as many rumors/smoke on an ongoing basis.

[jwd789]

I just saw alot of speculation without alot of known facts there Roy. You belive every rumor you hear. You mentioned what may have happened with these players or what could have happened with Horton's dad. Just alot of maybe's, possiblys, and if's in what you say. I'm not saying there haven't been problems but unfounded rumors (ACT BS with Mckinney and Paulding etc) aren't smoke IMO.

[billiken_roy]

if nothing else was happening jwd, i would see your point. but that isnt the case. so the smoke only gets thicker. btw, dont be so sure on the 3 ACT cases. it is obvious from the clemons file that the tigers know there way around the academic shortcut routes.

[MUTGR]

I have to agree with JWD on this one. I think Roy you are so blinded with hatred about MU that you first determine that every single recruit that Quin has recruited to MU had to arrive under questionable circumstances and then you figure out a way to come up with your own smoke to rationalize that thought.

I'll give you an example. How the hell did Tatum suddenly pass the ACT? No questions there, but there's smoke because Bryant did it at MU. As I recall, Bryant was a decent student in high school, he just had problems with passing the ACT, which is not exactly an uncommon problem with athletes. And Bryant didn't suddenly pass it, he took it several times and finally passed it. I don't think there is a scandal there--in fact you are literally the only person I have ever heard try to make it into one, but think what you will.

[billiken_roy]

tatum sat out a year and a half. i.e. he was a legit prop athlete that didnt either pass the test or the have the gpa unlike the tiger athletes that did not sit.

[kshoe]

was diagnosed by a neutral party to have a leaning disability. By the law (Americans with Disabilitites Act) he is allowed to take an untimed ACT, which he passed. The NCAA, in its infinite wisdom, didn't buy the disability however and thus Tatum ended up sitting 1.5 years while any other player would have only sat one year.

There is a LOT of smoke around the Mizzou program but I don't think it is fair to say EVERY recruit has smoke around him. that being said, this Horton thing really stinks in my opinion unless daddy horton paid for everything on his visit to St. Louis. I think it is fair to assume that the Mizzou program, or large boosters of the program have donated to DJ's foundation. If the foundation is then paying daddy Horton (whether through plane tics, hotels, or appearance fees) you essentially have the Charity acting as a middle man. This is 100% speculation (but not necessarily crazy speculation) but if only hard facts are to be discussed on internet boards they would all be silent.

[billiken_roy]

i am betting that technically demetrious is the "owner" of the event and since demetrious is a tiger booster per the ncaa rules, he cannot participate in the recruitment of horton unless there is a proven previous relationship. let's see demetrious prove that relationship.