Taj79 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ... but pronouncements that seem to deem this conjecture as fact need qualifications. For example, thicks says Ian's gonna average 10. Someone else said that the big men in the A-10 are not as athletic or challenging as they were in CUSA. I am going to agree with the second statement first for now. So the short rationale then would be that since I agree with the second statement, the first is a given? I don't believe so. Tseugnekillib (I believe) said that the A-10 is a more guard-oriented league. If I agree with that, and I think at this point I do, then I have to conclude that Ian's style and the A-10 style do not line up, meaning he isn't on the floor as much because he can't keep up, the score dictates a faster lineup, the matchups don't work whatever. Meaning he's out of the game more, meaning even when he's in he has no rhythem ultimately culminating in a situation that does not make it possible for him to average 10 ppg. I want TL, KL and Obi to be so good that they are first team all A-10 as well as all newcomers of the year. I want Ian to be first team as well. I guess overall I want SLU success ... but I can't back the emotional investors that have this team doing this and this guy doing that at thsi point in time with so many unknowns. Later, when that train leaves the station and I'm not on it, I'll just have to curse the gods for not having the guts to back the thing with the rest of you. Or I could also be like Sven, back in Liverpool, thanking the skies for Jack Dawson's lucky day (kids had Titantic on last night). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Given that .... I find it interesting that when it was all said and done, only one A-10 team went Dancin' (GeeDub) and only one other team went to the NIT (St. Joe's). The other top teams in the A-10 last year (Dayton, Xavier, Temple and UMass) were 18-11, 17-12, 16-14 and 16-12 withthe best being Dayton. Dayton brought (bought) in teams like Eastern Kentucky, Coppin State, Texas Southern, Northwestern State, Akron and Cornell to the UD Arena, arguably one of the best home court advantage arenas in the country. They won all those games, with the exception of the season opener to Travis Ford and EKU. My summation there is that at least five of their wins weren't all that great in the old RPI area. I still also think the NIT should have given them at least two home games ... because the NIT is all about money and the UD fans almost sell out the 64/65 game .. having the Flyers home standing would have put some bucks into the NIT's coffers. But given that, the fact that the others didn't go has to be affected by UD not going ... c'mon, they had the third best A-10 record. The final to all this is that while I agree that some freshmen can do it, and the A-10 exemplifies that from just as close as last year, just by doing so does not mean a corresponding good record is to follow. As a matter of fact, three of the five guys played on teams with sub.500 records. Having said that, I think that there would be no rationale to connect dots between Tommie and Kevin or whomever averaging 10 ppg and SLU having a noticable increase in wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Yes. When Roland came, he started from the first day, and was a rebounding force. By his senior year, he was the best 3 point shooter on the team. Douglas never had a decent 3 point shot nor a great jump shot - he was the ultimate slasher and alley-ooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Or I agree -- it won't matter much whether the freshmen average double figures or not. When Marque Perry was here and our motion offense bogged down (which was often), we knew what was coming -- a clear out for Marque at the end of the shot clock. We rode that horse to 17 victories. In order for this program to take the next step, we have to exploit the weaknesses in the defense and look to create mismatches. An iso for Liddell or Lisch at the end of the shot clock isn't going to make us a top tier team in the A-10. The offense needs to become less conservative. As Brad has mentioned on several occasions, he prefers to drop his guards back in transition defense to stop easy buckets. That puts the burden on our shaky frontcourt to offensive rebound. This is not a recipe for putback buckets. With Lisch, Brown and Liddell, we should be quick and big enough on the perimeter to effectively crash the boards and still get back on defense against most teams. On the defensive boards, Brad likes to send his guards to the boards, which left no one for Polk to pass the ball to on the break. Unless Brad becomes less conversative, we'll never have numbers in transition off a rebound. We can't expect Liddell to crash the offensive boards and outrun five Charlotte players for a layup. There's got to be a compromise -- sometimes send your guards to defensive boards and other times allow them to leak out so the point man has someone to pass the ball to in transition. And since we have two more ballhandlers now, it doesn't have to be Polk leading the break every time. In fact if Polk happens at the top of the key when we clear the board that should be an automatic layup for a speed demon like him, provided we can get him the ball as he's streaking across halfcourt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Agreed, one thing that nags at me is our offense going to be a lot of motion eating up a lot of shot clock and then going for a stoke and a hope. Let Lisch, TL, DP, and DB create. Not saying drop the motion, but I'd sure like to see us push the ball up the court, transition game, more often and generate more shots per game. IV fits in the transition scheme well, rebounder and excellent passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Stroke and a hope .... I like that ... did you invent that one or hear it somewhere else? What's been said here by 3-star and 72 is one of the micros of our program. For years, I argued against what I perceived to be Grawer's perchant for working the ball around and around and settling on that 18 foot stroke and a hope (now I'm stealing). Hell, it was always just inside the three point line which was mind boggling as well. And Rich didn't have the shooters most of the time or he had one, which meant the defense knew who it was and took care of that. We had the Marque clearout. Deiner was supposed to be a shooter. Then Reggie. The go to guy was JLove. Then Jeffers. Of course Larry. If you're gonna shoot the "J" get a couple of them, not one. That's what made the Claggs/Hmark/H/Turner/Dobbs years so productive ... you couldn't key on one guy and with the way defense is played, you certainly would find at least one all alone somewhere. I almost gagged when I saw someone say Ian fits this type of offense and then I realized ... yes .. from the rebound and outlet end. But if its warp seppd down the court, then the answer is no for poor Ian. But htis agains plays into the question of how this big man averages 10 a game for me. Bottom line: I once again can't wait for the season to get going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 3Star's point about which freshmen in the A10 were starters or played significant minutes is the key question. If the 5 listed started or played big minutes then the fact that there were 5 that avg. 10 pts is support to the idea that KL and TL can do so also. I do agree our front line has to chip in more than in the past. As far as Ian getting 10 pts per game - clearly doable for him. It is ok to talk about a more push the ball offensive style but even if Brad had 5 stallions he would still lean to a more conservative approach. He is a Bennett devotee and that is what got Bennett to Wisc. and got him out. Hopefully, Brad took note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 we have already had a number of eyewitness reports that tell us that kevin and tommie are dominating summer play. now i agree that high school doesnt translate to college success, but the point is, that if anyone is going to step up, it will likely be the "L" boys based on the fact they are the best players we got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 cheeseman said, "Lets look at this from a practical position - Avg. 10 pts a game by a freshman is not an impossible task - given that DP and Ian will be getting a lot of attention from the defense, why would it be so un heard of for KL and TL to avg. 10 pts?" actually i am hoping for an opposite. you are saying that lisch and liddell will be ok because of ian and duane, personally, i expect ian and duane to improve because of getting to play with liddell and lisch. i guess we could play chicken or the egg all day though. but i will be surprised if lisch and liddell arent the goto guys from the get go after hearing about the summers they have had. they arent afraid. that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 taj, i think that other than hughes and baniak, that liddell and lisch are better than any two freshmen we have had come into slu. they will show they are worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as douglass gray and claggett highmark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Roy, I would not argue with your position - the point I was making was that the other team's defense would at least early on target DP and IV since they are known quantities. You could be correct that as the season progresses - TL and KL might take that role over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 the opposition know who lisch and liddell are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 3star, as follow-up to our discussion late last week, I have listed the average minutes played for the A-10's top five scorers in 2004-5: Bryant Dunston - Fordham - 14.9 points per game / 33.2 mintues per game Marcus Stout - Fordham - 13.6 pts / 30.5 minutes Stanley Burrell - Xavier - 12.7 pts / 31.2 minutes Mark Tyndale - Temple - 12.5 pts / 34.6 minutes Darnell Harris - LaSalle - 11.3 pts / 36.0 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Tsueg .... what's the correlation .. that you have to average your stated 26 - 30 minutes per game to get the 10 ppg average? To even have a chance at 10 ppg as a freshman? Polk averaged 28.7 mpg to get his 5.8 ppg. Granted, he was a point guard. Also, Drejaj averaged 27.6 mpg to get his 6.5 ppg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 taj, imo, liddell and lisch are in another world compared to drejaj and polk. the point i am getting from tsueg, is if the freshman player has talent and gets the minutes he can score double digits in the a-10. i believe liddell and lisch are that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Taj, no correlations....just A-10 stats on the league's best freshman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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