P-D Arena Article

[bonwich]

The fine real estate lawyers and experts on this board can confirm or correct this, but when we had a TIF discussion several months ago, I thought we determined that SLU doesn't pay property taxes. I think one of the holes in the argument for TIF for this project is a result of SLU's non-profit status.

Further, we discussed, but I can't remember the details, where the payoff for the TIF was supposed to come from. There will be little to no incremental salaries generated by the new facility (with a possible exception if they hire a management agency, but even that won't generate big tax revenues). Further, the sales and amusement taxes that will come from the primary revenue generator (men's bb) are simply being displaced from one place in the City to another.

And if you think that TIFs are just magic money with no potential cost to taxpayers, see also the St. Louis Marketplace development on Manchester and the Robert E. Lee downtown. Certainly SLU and the administration are wise to grab the incentive that's out there, but I've always been wary of TIF for the arena, and even moreso now that its connection to "Grand Center" is quite a stretch.

[billiken_roy]

thank you mr whelan. i for one appreciate the update and it definitely eases some uneasy feelings that were beginning to develop.

could you address the seating issue i broached above in a different post? what are plans for order of seats? will there be psl's? will a psl have priority over previous longtime season ticket/billiken club members that do not purchase psl's?

i think it is only fair we know the answers to these questions so that small time boosters can try to plan in advance what they can afford to give and what they need to save and prioritize for.

[Sheltiedave]

MUTGR, the site the arena is being built used to be partly the Laclede Town projects, a city grade school, the Grand Forest apartments, and vacant land. Of the three structures in this area, the only one that generated tax revenue was the apartment complex, which is till standing and generating revenue for another year.

Having seen, visited, lived in, witnessed murders and drug deals in, and been directly involved in the demolition of Laclede Town, there was no better site in St. Louis to be part and parcel of a TIF district designation. City and Federal entities look at the pros and cons of a TIF prior to it being issued, and this arena will help anchor, stabilize, and promote redevelopment of the direct and adjoining areas, INCREASING the net tax base.

For forty years, SLU has been an anchor as near midtown started to decline, and they continue to show that doing well for SLU is associated with doing well for St. Louis.

[Schasz]

Don,

I will second slu72's thanks for updating us on the progress of the arena funding. I like the fact that you have ended the typical Billiken fans angst on whether, or not, the arena will get built. I am sure with Fr. Biondi solidly behind this building that we will have a state of the art on campus arena that ALL Billiken fans will be extremely happy with.

[davidnark]

The TIF analysis was incomplete. TIF revenues are generated from 100% of the increase in property revenues and 50% of the increase in sales tax revenues. Certain items (including certain educational taxes) are excluded from the TIF process completely.

I don't know the details of the SLU proposal and I am not a tax attorney, but I would guess that a portion of the revenues generated from the arena project will result from third party management services and will not be tax-exempt; these revenues will generate taxable TIF income.

[Box and Won]

Thank you for the update, Mr. Whelan. We appreciate all the hard work that you and your staff are doing! Best of luck!

[davidnark]

nm

[kshoe]

By definition wouldn't any TIF that encourages business development simply be moving money from one hand to the other. For instance, a new restraunt opens up with the benefit of TIF money. Now, people may eat there but they will likely forego eating at the local Applebees or shopping at the local Schnucks. Thus, you have just moved money from one hand to the other. If somehow this new restraunt (or arena for that matter) was to bring people from out of town to spend their money you would have a net positive economic impact on the area. The same goes for a shop in the new TIF. Instead of shopping there you might shop at the Galleria.

Now of course its not that simple but at the same time if an NBA team comes to St. Louis and the Bills are limited to Saturday afternoons and Tuesday evenings at the Savvis although a hypothetical study shows that 3,000 more fans will come to Saturday night games then you have a net gain in ticket sales and amusement revenues.

[cheeseman]

Kshoe - this is exactly the arguement that some make that a new ballpark does not generate new income - simply moves it around. You are correct but one issue of importance - I am not sure how to measure it thought - is that the more there is to do in a town then the more likely people will spend more money. This might cause them to not take extensive vacations but smaller ones since they are spending more money through the year than before. Another factor is the measuring of the money that would be spent to build a facility or shopping area - in other words construction workers and suppliers make more and so they spend it where they live - locally - and now that money gets turned over several times thus creating more money in the local economy. I am not advocating one way or the other justing pointing both sides.