billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 i dont think that is true. the year that the big dufus from chicago signed a loi to go to depaul, fat pat over recruited and had more than his scholarships available. you just cant use more than a certain number is my belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 how much are the "role models" around a tommie pushing and rewarding for his off the court actions and accomplishments? my kids have two parents that both have degrees from slu and have been a part of the mainstream workforce forever. all their aunts and uncles and friends and neighbors are pretty much the same way. my kids see one of these folks they get asked about school. every thing is a focus on "getting ready" and doing the right things along the way. i wonder if some kid from the neighborhood gets that same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 basketball intuition and smarts are not necessarily indicative of being a "bright young man." I'm not trying to say that TL might not be a bright person, but the ability to make a quick decision on the floor and court vision are not necessarily akin to being able to manage your income and perform at a job admirably. Once again, please don't read into this to think that I'm saying TL isn't smart. That's not what I'm saying at all, but it's unfair to put expectations on star athletes that are higher because of the "smart" decisions they make on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I feel the main component of standardized test is reading comprehension. As a community, we African Americans (particularly middle class and below) have been horrible at teaching our children to read and enjoy reading. It's not that we lack the intelligence, but our priorities are out of whack. We put so much value on sports, music, rapping, dancing, and entertainment that we have little time or interest in reading and writing. We look to sports, etc., as a way out of poverty, but it's really fool's gold. The blame doesn't all rest on the teachers in East St. Louis; it doesn't rest all on the parents; it doesn't rest all on the kids; it doesn't rest all on the government. Rather, they all bear some of the blame and they all must work together to effect a solution. Roy, I don't think I'd be risking much if I wagered that your daughter can read better than Tommie while he could probably cream her in a video game. That's what we're dealing with here. Good reading skills lend well to good ACT scores, but good xbox skills don't. I don't know Tommie personally and am not really speaking specifically about him -- just making presumptions -- but you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Lower-income families from East St. Louis are at a disadvantage due to some cultural values. On the other hand, I was never asked how I was doing in school. The importance of education was never stressed to me by those surrounding me in the same way as some others might have been. My parents preferred the "laissez faire" approach to my education, allowing me to discover things on my own. I'm not trying to compare my upbringing to TL's, because we obviously grew up in two totally different worlds, but I think education is a conscious choice. I made the conscious choice to read books, and I managed to get a 30 on my ACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 broy, there are a number of teachers and adminstrators in my extended family, including a daughter. The stories she/they bring home would boggle your mind. I'm not positive about the public school teachers in East St. Louis because I only attended the Catholic schools in that same city. The consensus of the teachers in my extended family state the biggest step to curing education ills is for each student to have a caring, concerned "mother and father" at home and for their educational interest to be there from Grade One and going forward. Are all teachers perfect, hell no! But if the parents aren't interested in their childs' education, there is a good chance the students interest may not be there as well, or not there soon enough in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 we arent talking about managing income etc. we are talking about basic mental awareness and sharpness. i.e. pure basic intelligence. i contend if you have been around sports enough, the kids that make those kind of decisions in those games all the time correctly are not the dumbest kids in the world. they might not find the cure for cancer, but they arent stupid either. the brain power is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I just can't believe that Brad would be willing to roll the dice and wait until June for Tommie to qualify, given all the injury problems we've experienced over the last two seasons. If one of our starting guards goes down for any extended period of time that could mean the difference between a postseason bid and a .500 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 i agree. i pointed that out in a later post about the circle of influences on someone like my daughter compared to a kid from east st louis. still, why are these kids passed through the system. that is what has to change. they have to be ready to move to the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 i bet you were actually being watched academically and socially by your circle of influence than you know and/or realize. my guess is that in your normal course of conversation you were giving your circle the information they didnt have to ask about. whereas like thicks points out, a kid from the projects is truly not asked at all. too many one parent households as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 And I don't feel fully able to comment on TL's upbringing. I'll just always stand by my belief that anyone can succeed in life, regardless of circumstances, even if that's too idealist of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 >Lower-income families from East St. Louis are at a >disadvantage due to some cultural values. > >On the other hand, I was never asked how I was doing in >school. The importance of education was never stressed to me >by those surrounding me in the same way as some others might >have been. My parents preferred the "laissez faire" approach >to my education, allowing me to discover things on my own. >I'm not trying to compare my upbringing to TL's, because we >obviously grew up in two totally different worlds, but I >think education is a conscious choice. I made the conscious >choice to read books, and I managed to get a 30 on my ACT. By reading and appreciating education, were you following your parents' example, even if they didn't beat you over the head about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Outstanding point. A picture is worth a thousand words and the pictures that Tommie sees in poverty-stricken, educationally bankrupt East St. Louis ain't near as pretty as the view in say, Creve Coeur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 You're right that anyone can succeed in life, but it sure is a heck of a lot easier for people who can read and write well to succeed than those with highly-developed social and motor skills without adequate reading skills. Without reading comprehension, a person would have to work probably 10 times as hard, likely shortening his/her lifespan in the process, as someone who can read well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Consider my thoughts withdrawn for the most part on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 The ACT as a written examination is heaving on reading comprehension. Those who do not read extensively as they grow up fall behind others who do so. If you grow up in a home where reading is encouraged from an early age, then you have a leg up. The lower down the economic ladder one starts out in life, the less likely that person is of growing up in an environment where language skills are developed. Language skills and intelligence are not necessarily the same thing. Deficient reading and writing skills certainly would make it difficult for a student to succeed at a place like SLU; however, these are learned skills and one with the proper motivation and sufficient intelligent can catch up with the rest of the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 let's not look past the fact that frequently kids are attending high schools that aren't properly preparing them for these tests. Roy, the quality of your daughter's junior high classes is probably superior to that of classes at East, CPL schools and other inner city public schools. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 it is sad when you realize that a seventh grader has learned more than a senior in high school. because as i said below, my daughter is not some kind of prodigy. she is bright, but i am not ready to have her skip high school and head to mit either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 That's why it is possible that Coach Soderberg and TL may have a pact and the exam this week could be critical on his being eligible next year or SLU going in another direction if he cannot make the grade this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Thank you, jjray, for saying what I was trying to say. You did it much more succinctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Schasz, is that speculation on your part, or have you heard or read something along those lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 yes, it's sad, but your seventh grader is probably smarter than millions of adults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 oh no, Thicks....here we go again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Thicks, you say it is easier for someone who can read and write well to succeed in education, etc. But, wasn't it a few months back that you were a proponent of Ebonics being taught? Or at least okay with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former_d1 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 and probably a whole lot of truth in those words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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