Speculation: Now what??

[Bay Area Billiken]

There was no possibility of this happening for so many reasons. This is not a CYO league. They don't even do this in high school. I can think of about 1000 reasons more why you would want this game than not. Our tune would be different if we were more competitive and this conversation would not even exist. Playing the #1 team in the country will put Temple, et al in perspective for this very young team.

How much buzz would UM Baltimore County at home created vs. playing Duke at Cameron on National TV? Think about how dumb SLU would look if they canceled the Duke game? You would never get an opportunity to play a BCS team ever again. You would get 1000x more bad press from this than taking a beating at Duke.

The more time I waste explaining myself the dumber I realize the notion of canceling is and I am going to stop typing.

I think you are probably right. Point taken.

[The Pelican]

So maybe there was just nothing to do but play the game and try to make the best of it.

That is correct.

[billikendave]

There was no possibility of this happening for so many reasons. This is not a CYO league. They don't even do this in high school. I can think of about 1000 reasons more why you would want this game than not. Our tune would be different if we were more competitive and this conversation would not even exist. Playing the #1 team in the country will put Temple, et al in perspective for this very young team.

How much buzz would UM Baltimore County at home created vs. playing Duke at Cameron on National TV? Think about how dumb SLU would look if they canceled the Duke game? You would never get an opportunity to play a BCS team ever again. You would get 1000x more bad press from this than taking a beating at Duke.

The more time I waste explaining myself the dumber I realize the notion of canceling is and I am going to stop typing.

This game was scheduled in July. The incident took place in May. If SLU had promptly acted and suspended WR and KM within a month or two (even though most disagree with it), this game would not have been scheduled in the first place.

[The Pelican]

This game was scheduled in July. The incident took place in May. If SLU had promptly acted and suspended WR and KM within a month or two (even though most disagree with it), this game would not have been scheduled in the first place.

So what does you statement have to do with canceling a previously scheduled game?

[billikendave]

So what does you statement have to do with canceling a previously scheduled game?

Sorry, wasn't trying to comment on your post in particular but reply to general thread discussion. I agree that once the game was scheduled little could be done. It shouldn't have been scheduled though for reasons above.

[Bay Area Billiken]

So what does you statement have to do with canceling a previously scheduled game?

I think that's the point. The game should not have been scheduled at all under the circumstances.

Once it was scheduled, there was probably nothing that could be done but to make the best of it.

It sure sounds as if the right arm didn't know what the left arm was doing.

Oh well, I guess we have to move forward. Let's hope the players get reinstated, and if anyone has any influence over that, please by all means use it.

[billiken_roy]

i'd play that game again tomorrow if offered. and i would take any other top ten team on the road anytime. a lot more was gotten out of that game than what the final score showed. my bet is that rickma is having field day with the game film of saturday. and i bet that our freshmen will remember the spanking forever but still come away with a lesson learned and picked up lessons that will help them all be better in the future.

sure it was embarrassing, but still more is taken from seeing what a real top program brings to the floor and does right than us beating up on tennessee state or a third exhibition game vs lower division team.

the one thing that is bothering me is why our staff didnt try to do something game prepwise to try to alter the game? those of you thinking it was better to play our regular game, please explain why taking the air out of the ball wouldnt have been better? maybe trying the old rickma triangle and two or at least some sort of alternating defenses/offenses? granted i dont think we win regardless, but keeping it close® would have brought a little something to the team.

there was no reason to take that bad of a beating. lisch and liddell were within what 5 at carolina their sophomore year with just a couple of minutes left in the game? had a few whistles and breaks went our way who knows? i just think we should have played for the moment and was disappointed it appeared we did nothing outside of our normal game saturday.

[Bay Area Billiken]

the one thing that is bothering me is why our staff didnt try to do something game prepwise to try to alter the game? those of you thinking it was better to play our regular game, please explain why taking the air out of the ball wouldnt have been better? maybe trying the old rickma triangle and two or at least some sort of alternating defenses/offenses? granted i dont think we win regardless, but keeping it close® would have brought a little something to the team.

there was no reason to take that bad of a beating. lisch and liddell were within what 5 at carolina their sophomore year with just a couple of minutes left in the game? had a few whistles and breaks went our way who knows? i just think we should have played for the moment and was disappointed it appeared we did nothing outside of our normal game saturday.

My observation was that the team struggled so much just to get the ball to half-court. Then they had to stop and get into something of an offense. Duke smothered SLU's offense nearly the whole court. Duke wouldn't allow SLU to get into a milk the shot clock offense, the old "Keepaway" offense in the word of Houston's former Coach Tom Penders. With that Duke defense, trying to milk the shot clock would have just led to more turnovers IMO. I don't think there was anything SLU could have done other than giving more minutes to Evans at the 3.

Maybe something different could have been done on defense. It is hard to play a zone against a team that can shoot 3's like Duke, however.

So basically, SLU showed up, made one good run early in the second half, causing Coach K to call a timeout, and that was just about it.

[The Pelican]

I think that's the point. The game should not have been scheduled at all under the circumstances.

Once it was scheduled, there was probably nothing that could be done but to make the best of it.

It sure sounds as if the right arm didn't know what the left arm was doing.

Oh well, I guess we have to move forward. Let's hope the players get reinstated, and if anyone has any influence over that, please by all means use it.

I understand where you are coming from; however, in a very unselfish way think about what this game meant to our players, with or without KM/WR. This was an opportunity of a lifetime for them - to play the #1 team and past NCAA champs at the most awesome place to play a game of college basketball in the country. It was a nice reward and experience for them and I could see that while I was there.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I understand where you are coming from; however, in a very unselfish way think about what this game meant to our players, with or without KM/WR. This was an opportunity of a lifetime for them - to play the #1 team and past NCAA champs at the most awesome place to play a game of college basketball in the country. It was a nice reward and experience for them and I could see that while I was there.

Good point. I see your point re playing the game and think it is a valid one.

However, given the totality of the circumstances, I'm not sure it was the best thing for the school and basketball program.

[ACE]

i'd play that game again tomorrow if offered. and i would take any other top ten team on the road anytime. a lot more was gotten out of that game than what the final score showed. my bet is that rickma is having field day with the game film of saturday. and i bet that our freshmen will remember the spanking forever but still come away with a lesson learned and picked up lessons that will help them all be better in the future.

sure it was embarrassing, but still more is taken from seeing what a real top program brings to the floor and does right than us beating up on tennessee state or a third exhibition game vs lower division team.

the one thing that is bothering me is why our staff didnt try to do something game prepwise to try to alter the game? those of you thinking it was better to play our regular game, please explain why taking the air out of the ball wouldnt have been better? maybe trying the old rickma triangle and two or at least some sort of alternating defenses/offenses? granted i dont think we win regardless, but keeping it close® would have brought a little something to the team.

there was no reason to take that bad of a beating. lisch and liddell were within what 5 at carolina their sophomore year with just a couple of minutes left in the game? had a few whistles and breaks went our way who knows? i just think we should have played for the moment and was disappointed it appeared we did nothing outside of our normal game saturday.

This Duke team is a lot more talented than that Carolina team was. Carolina may have even been unranked when we played them on the road. They were better the following year when we got blown out in the second half at Scottrade. Also, Lisch and Liddell were part of a team that got humiliated at Texas A&M, 69-33, so those guys didn't always have the answers either.

[Cowboy]

-to moytoy - Merry Christmas!!

[billikendave]

There is no doubt there is that upside and I respect that viewpoint.

However, there is little to hide this was a pure "buy" game for Duke. Reportedly, this was the first time Rickma agreed to such a thing. Why now then? I would have to believe that pure "buy" games at their house (with no home/home or even 2 for 1) can be had with top programs.

[Cowboy]

i'd play that game again tomorrow if offered. and i would take any other top ten team on the road anytime. a lot more was gotten out of that game than what the final score showed. my bet is that rickma is having field day with the game film of saturday. and i bet that our freshmen will remember the spanking forever but still come away with a lesson learned and picked up lessons that will help them all be better in the future.

sure it was embarrassing, but still more is taken from seeing what a real top program brings to the floor and does right than us beating up on tennessee state or a third exhibition game vs lower division team.

the one thing that is bothering me is why our staff didnt try to do something game prepwise to try to alter the game? those of you thinking it was better to play our regular game, please explain why taking the air out of the ball wouldnt have been better? maybe trying the old rickma triangle and two or at least some sort of alternating defenses/offenses? granted i dont think we win regardless, but keeping it close® would have brought a little something to the team.

there was no reason to take that bad of a beating. lisch and liddell were within what 5 at carolina their sophomore year with just a couple of minutes left in the game? had a few whistles and breaks went our way who knows? i just think we should have played for the moment and was disappointed it appeared we did nothing outside of our normal game saturday.

-i think you answered your own question with RM having a field day with the game film

-if you are asking the players to do things they are not normally coached to do then the use of the game as a teaching point is not as dynamic

-however if you use the film to show how to improve what the coaches are trying every day to get across to the players i think there is great value

-that is at least how i answered the same question to myself as i sat there

[billiken_roy]

This Duke team is a lot more talented than that Carolina team was. Carolina may have even been unranked when we played them on the road. They were better the following year when we got blown out in the second half at Scottrade. Also, Lisch and Liddell were part of a team that got humiliated at Texas A&M, 69-33, so those guys didn't always have the answers either.

actually ace, north carolina was a ranked team and got a 3 seed to the ncaa tourney that season. they were good. better than texas a&m which i agree was a total embarrassment game that season and a game soderberg should have been crucified for that year as well.

i agree this is a very good duke team that looks to be the team to beat nationally this year and my point is not to go back to 2005 or to compare coaches. my point was only to say that i think we should approach each game with a purpose do whatever we can to try to stay in the game. i didnt see anything different saturday strategy wise then any of our other games this season and i think we indeed have more talent top of roster to bottom to have given them a better game than a 40 point blow out. now if you know of what the game plan was to try to make it close hey let me know. obviously playing straight up was not the preferred approach.

[slu72]

But you should see how the East Dillon Lions have responded. Don't question Coach Taylor.

sorry BAB, I've got Friday Night Lights on the brain. For those who have never seen it, here's who you've missed:

Moy, next time you post a picture of my wife, you and I are going to have words.

[kevinfootes]

actually ace, north carolina was a ranked team and got a 3 seed to the ncaa tourney that season. they were good. better than texas a&m which i agree was a total embarrassment game that season and a game soderberg should have been crucified for that year as well.

i agree this is a very good duke team that looks to be the team to beat nationally this year and my point is not to go back to 2005 or to compare coaches. my point was only to say that i think we should approach each game with a purpose do whatever we can to try to stay in the game. i didnt see anything different saturday strategy wise then any of our other games this season and i think we indeed have more talent top of roster to bottom to have given them a better game than a 40 point blow out. now if you know of what the game plan was to try to make it close hey let me know. obviously playing straight up was not the preferred approach.

Was your goal to "make it close" or work on your game to make your team better?

[billiken_roy]

Was your goal to "make it close" or work on your game to make your team better?

why cant you do both?

[ACE]

actually ace, north carolina was a ranked team and got a 3 seed to the ncaa tourney that season. they were good. better than texas a&m which i agree was a total embarrassment game that season and a game soderberg should have been crucified for that year as well.

i agree this is a very good duke team that looks to be the team to beat nationally this year and my point is not to go back to 2005 or to compare coaches. my point was only to say that i think we should approach each game with a purpose do whatever we can to try to stay in the game. i didnt see anything different saturday strategy wise then any of our other games this season and i think we indeed have more talent top of roster to bottom to have given them a better game than a 40 point blow out. now if you know of what the game plan was to try to make it close hey let me know. obviously playing straight up was not the preferred approach.

I looked it up, UNC was ranked 24 in one poll, unranked in some others at the time of the game. They would go on to lose in the second round of the tournament that year. SLU played tough in that game, but this Duke team is on a completely different level. No WR, no KM, a banged up Ellis and Cassity... how could we expect to compete in this game? Our guards were smothered. We couldn't even run our offense. I like some of the things I saw out of McCall, Jett and Evans. This 37-point loss at Cameron to the No. 1 team is not nearly as embarrassing as the 36-point loss to A&M.

[slu72]

There was no possibility of this happening for so many reasons. This is not a CYO league. They don't even do this in high school. I can think of about 1000 reasons more why you would want this game than not. Our tune would be different if we were more competitive and this conversation would not even exist. Playing the #1 team in the country will put Temple, et al in perspective for this very young team.

How much buzz would UM Baltimore County at home created vs. playing Duke at Cameron on National TV? Think about how dumb SLU would look if they canceled the Duke game? You would never get an opportunity to play a BCS team ever again. You would get 1000x more bad press from this than taking a beating at Duke.

The more time I waste explaining myself the dumber I realize the notion of canceling is and I am going to stop typing.

I'm not saying cancel the game. Play the game. But maybe we and Duke could have gone to CBS and said this ain't gonna be pretty. There's a reason the NFL allows the networks to move Sunday night games. If Carolina's playing NE and The Eagles are playing the Giants, which game do you think they'd choose. And they do it with very short notice. It wasn't like the CBS trucks were parked outside Cameron on 10/14.

[slu72]

I looked it up, UNC was ranked 24 in one poll, unranked in some others at the time of the game. They would go on to lose in the second round of the tournament that year. SLU played tough in that game, but this Duke team is on a completely different level. No WR, no KM, a banged up Ellis and Cassity... how could we expect to compete in this game? Our guards were smothered. We couldn't even run our offense. I like some of the things I saw out of McCall, Jett and Evans. This 37-point loss at Cameron to the No. 1 team is not nearly as embarrassing as the 36-point loss to A&M.

I'd agree with ACE on the above. But we knew we'd be playing frosh against the nat'l championship team that returned like 2 starters and a number of Juniors that played a lot last year. I liked it when we had our rull complement. When that wasn't going to happen we knew it would get ugly early and stay ugly. It was like a HS Freshman team scrimmaging the defending state champs w/ a lot of returnees. Who really wants to watch that. Again, play the game, but ask CBS nicely not to show a game that should have had a warning, Viewer Discretion Advised.

[The Pelican]

I'm not saying cancel the game. Play the game. But maybe we and Duke could have gone to CBS and said this ain't gonna be pretty. There's a reason the NFL allows the networks to move Sunday night games. If Carolina's playing NE and The Eagles are playing the Giants, which game do you think they'd choose. And they do it with very short notice. It wasn't like the CBS trucks were parked outside Cameron on 10/14.

I don't remember quoting you when I made my statement in regards to canceling the Duke game. But I will quote your first statement and address it since you brought it up.

Actually a little surprised they didn't sacrifice the supposed $75k we got for this to avoid a national beat down. In Oct they could have gone to CBS and Duke and said, hey, we got a problem and that game we were so excited about, could you maybe find a substitute? But it's done. It'll be forgotten along with every other team that Duke mauls this year. Good for the team. And agreed we do have some good looking Frosh. This is a much better recruiting class than last year by far. In fact, unless CE steps it up last year's class is going to look pitiful in comparison.

Actually you are not saying cancel the game in its entirety but just play it with a different team in lieu of SLU. I think that is canceling the game on our part but not on the part of CBS or Duke. We made a commitment with a binding contract to play Duke at Duke on CBS on said date and time. Barring unusual circumstances like a blizzard, collapse of the Cameron Indoor Stadium facility, or other so-called acts of God, the game is required to go on. You are saying don't cancel the game in the first above post but move it to a different time or don't air it. That would be like Harris-Stowe coming to us and saying, "hey, can you tell Rich Gould and Scott Highmark not to show up because our two best players got into some trouble and we won't be able to make this competitive." CW11 and SLU say, "Tough ###### and you are not ever welcome back. Oh and by the way, we will make sure you don't get a game with all the schools we affiliate with and have relationships with. Oh and by the way, now we have to tell all the donors coming in for this game to not show up or change their plans because of two student's inability to behave - I don't think so. Be there or payup and suffer much more dire consequences!"

Your above underlined statements I am in agreement with you.

[kevinfootes]

why cant you do both?

I'd rather be playing to win instead of playing "not to lose by too much". IMO, slowing things down wouldn't have helped much anyway. Duke averages 80+ ppg and has played much better opponents than SLU. How can you "take the air out of the ball" when you're having trouble moving it past half court? How can you "take the air out of the ball" when you're having trouble completing passes on the occasions that you do make past half court?

I'm not sure what game you were watching. Duke probably won't go undefeated this year, but they're far and away the best team going right now, by a longshot. They'd have beaten us by 20 even if WR/KM hadn't gotten into trouble. Were you really expecting freshmen guards to run a the shot clock down to 2 seconds each possession against this team?

I rarely make excuses for our program, but this was the first game in probably 20+ years that I knew we had no chance to even keep it close. The experience on the current roster isn't there yet.

[SShoe]

We should have forfeited kind of like Coach Taylor's first game with the East Dillon Lions.

Ha ha, I thought about that at halftime.

[The Pelican]

I'm not saying cancel the game. Play the game. But maybe we and Duke could have gone to CBS and said this ain't gonna be pretty. There's a reason the NFL allows the networks to move Sunday night games. If Carolina's playing NE and The Eagles are playing the Giants, which game do you think they'd choose. And they do it with very short notice. It wasn't like the CBS trucks were parked outside Cameron on 10/14.

Duke knew it would be pretty regardless from their perspective and I am pretty sure CBS and Clark Kellogg had a pretty good idea from the get-go. No need for SLU to help them figure this out.

The CBS trucks would have been parked outside of Duke on 10/14 but ESPNU was already there taking up the parking spots to cover the Midnight Madness events the next day.