Clock_Tower Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i totally agree our "best years" were the spoon ncaa teams. but you cant deny the 92-93, 96-97, and 98-99 were very frustrating and LOSING seasons. as to strength of schedule in spoon seasons, while spoon managed to get us some marquee games with top teams, he also had his share of weak sister out of conference games. the 93-94 season, which might have been the best of all of spoons teams, was one of the last undefeated teams and i still remember the espn crew begging the pollsters to put us in the rankings. however that particular season the non conference schedule was a stinker and kept us out of the rankings. yes i am sure researching previous rpi seasons would show strong schedules though mainly because we had the cusa schedules to bring the rpi up each season. but other than the one or two big games that some of the seasons had on the non conference schedule, spoon didnt play a particularly tough non conference schedule. that said, again, he didnt have to because of the strong conference schedule. but back to the original premise, we indeed did win with spoon 4 out of 7 seasons. romar never had a losing season in his three year term. soderberg had 1 out of 5 losing seaons. grawer had 4 out of 10 losing seasons, but i give him a pass on the first three seasons trying to overcome the dispicable ron ekker years. rickma has never had a losing season. so in 27 seasons the billikens have had 8 losing seasons and 19 500 or better seasons. granted a lot of mediocrity there, but not a losing program. 446 wins and 386 losses for a 536 winning percentage. and if you only go back 25 seasons (ekker reflex) the winning percentage goes up to a 554 winning percentage. once again, my point is the billikens win. they just havent won big consistently. and i have no problem with willie saying i just want to win big. that would be a true statement as to something the program hasnt done. Roy. Possibly your best post in 2 1/2 years!! Reminds me of all your prior and passionate posts supporting the Billikens and not your recent qualified posts in support only of the "student-athletes" of the Billikens. Keep the passion coming!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Most of the recent "winning" seasons have been brutal. Watching the Billikens hasn't been fun since Perry graduated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i totally agree our "best years" were the spoon ncaa teams. but you cant deny the 92-93, 96-97, and 98-99 were very frustrating and LOSING seasons. as to strength of schedule in spoon seasons, while spoon managed to get us some marquee games with top teams, he also had his share of weak sister out of conference games. the 93-94 season, which might have been the best of all of spoons teams, was one of the last undefeated teams and i still remember the espn crew begging the pollsters to put us in the rankings. however that particular season the non conference schedule was a stinker and kept us out of the rankings. yes i am sure researching previous rpi seasons would show strong schedules though mainly because we had the cusa schedules to bring the rpi up each season. but other than the one or two big games that some of the seasons had on the non conference schedule, spoon didnt play a particularly tough non conference schedule. that said, again, he didnt have to because of the strong conference schedule. but back to the original premise, we indeed did win with spoon 4 out of 7 seasons. romar never had a losing season in his three year term. soderberg had 1 out of 5 losing seaons. grawer had 4 out of 10 losing seasons, but i give him a pass on the first three seasons trying to overcome the dispicable ron ekker years. rickma has never had a losing season. so in 27 seasons the billikens have had 8 losing seasons and 19 500 or better seasons. granted a lot of mediocrity there, but not a losing program. 446 wins and 386 losses for a 536 winning percentage. and if you only go back 25 seasons (ekker reflex) the winning percentage goes up to a 554 winning percentage. once again, my point is the billikens win. they just havent won big consistently. and i have no problem with willie saying i just want to win big. that would be a true statement as to something the program hasnt done. Roy, this was a good post and I commend you for using facts. Still, you'd have to admit 446-386 or 60 games over .500 when we probably have had 80-100 buy games during that time isn't anything to pound our chests about. It comes down to this. I won't be, nor would any person I know, get excited if the Bills finish 16-15 on a regular basis. That is no standard for success and I doubt too many people anywhere would laud the "winning trandition" of a team that goes 16-15 every year and ends with an RPI in the 100s somewhere. p.s. why won't you give Spoon a pass on his first season when he took over a 5 win team in the Great Midwest but you will give Grawer a 3-year pass to start his tenure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 romar never had a losing season in his three year term. soderberg had 1 out of 5 losing seaons. grawer had 4 out of 10 losing seasons, but i give him a pass on the first three seasons trying to overcome the dispicable ron ekker years. rickma has never had a losing season. so in 27 seasons the billikens have had 8 losing seasons and 19 500 or better seasons. granted a lot of mediocrity there, but not a losing program. 446 wins and 386 losses for a 536 winning percentage. and if you only go back 25 seasons (ekker reflex) the winning percentage goes up to a 554 winning percentage. once again, my point is the billikens win. they just havent won big consistently. and i have no problem with willie saying i just want to win big. that would be a true statement as to something the program hasnt done. Wasn't Romar 15-16 in his last year at SLU? AS I recall the team regressed each season...19 to 17 to 15 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Roy, this was a good post and I commend you for using facts. Still, you'd have to admit 446-386 or 60 games over .500 when we probably have had 80-100 buy games during that time isn't anything to pound our chests about. It comes down to this. I won't be, nor would any person I know, get excited if the Bills finish 16-15 on a regular basis. That is no standard for success and I doubt too many people anywhere would laud the "winning trandition" of a team that goes 16-15 every year and ends with an RPI in the 100s somewhere. p.s. why won't you give Spoon a pass on his first season when he took over a 5 win team in the Great Midwest but you will give Grawer a 3-year pass to start his tenure? where am i saying it is chest pounding worthy? all i am saying is that it is a winning season. agree on giving spoon a one year pass. so his losing seasons down to two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 where am i saying it is chest pounding worthy? all i am saying is that it is a winning season. agree on giving spoon a one year pass. so his losing seasons down to two. Fair enough. By the way, I found the RPI calculation from 1999. One of Spoon's "losing" seasons we finished 89th with a pretty brutal schedule. http://www.kenpom.com/sked.php?&y=1999...eam=St.%20Louis compared to the 2006 season where we went 16-13 and finished 101 http://www.kenpom.com/sked.php?&y=2006...eam=St.%20Louis or even the 20-win season where we finished with an RPI of 74 http://www.kenpom.com/sked.php?&y=2007...eam=St.%20Louis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 my intent on weighing in on this thread at this point was only to debate the definition of "winning season". i actually have very little interest in hashing the rank of our coaches, the invidual schedules or records the last 27 years. imo all of our coaches have been at minimum fair to middlin or better since ekker days. no one stands out to the point of basketball sainthood. yet we havent had a losing program either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wasn't Romar 15-16 in his last year at SLU? AS I recall the team regressed each season...19 to 17 to 15 wins. You're right. According to slubillikens.com (archives), the record was 15-16 so we should add: Romar had 1 out of 3 years losing years. For those keeping track, LR inherited a relatively stacked program, and then went 5 games over .500 his first year (19-14), 3 games over .500 his second year (17-14) and then ended his tenure at 1 game below .500 (15-16) for a losing season just prior to the exodus -- Romar, Edwin, Pulley, N. Kern, Seyfert, F. McClain and R. Hollis sp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 You're right. According to slubillikens.com (archives), the record was 15-16 so we should add: Romar had 1 out of 3 years losing years. For those keeping track, LR inherited a relatively stacked program, and then went 5 games over .500 his first year (19-14), 3 games over .500 his second year (17-14) and then ended his tenure at 1 game below .500 (15-16) for a losing season just prior to the exodus -- Romar, Edwin, Pulley, N. Kern, Seyfert, F. McClain and R. Hollis sp? my fault for taking the slu 2008 media guide as factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 p.s. why won't you give Spoon a pass on his first season when he took over a 5 win team in the Great Midwest but you will give Grawer a 3-year pass to start his tenure? Grawer inherited an unbleievable mess when he took over. SLU was the buy game for many teams when he took over. That said, you can't hold Spoon's first season against him. He inherited some talent, but it was young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Grawer inherited an unbleievable mess when he took over. SLU was the buy game for many teams when he took over. That said, you can't hold Spoon's first season against him. He inherited some talent, but it was young. I do often get surprised at the perceived lack of 'credit' if you will that Grawer gets based on apples to oranges circumstances. I know Roy has consistently done so and perhaps a few others but seemingly not many or enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Grawer inherited an unbleievable mess when he took over. SLU was the buy game for many teams when he took over. That said, you can't hold Spoon's first season against him. He inherited some talent, but it was young. Why would anybody hold Spoon's first season against him? He won 7 more games than the previous season. You have to have realistic expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I do often get surprised at the perceived lack of 'credit' if you will that Grawer gets based on apples to oranges circumstances. I know Roy has consistently done so and perhaps a few others but seemingly not many or enough. Did you see that in this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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