Cotto?

[bhayes520]

well why not do for this every athlete aspiring to play whether or not they are a domestic or international?

Every athlete, domestic or international, has to go through the same NCAA Clearinghouse process before becoming a student-athlete.

Basically, they want to see your ACT and/or SAT scores, they want a statement from you verifying your amateur status, and they want to look at your complete transcript after you have graduated. Pass/Fail classes weren't offered at my high school, so I don't know if that is something common to other American high schools, but I would imagine if someone from Vashon or Chaminade or the high school of your choice had a similar transcript issue the NCAA would also be looking into it.

[slufanskip]

i am sure the likes of calipari would be all about honesty if this was the case.

it has long been my belief that the one thing that can control college athletics is strictly enforcing academics and academics alone. if 100% of college athletic police work was about academics only, i have long believed that most of the messes and issues would go away simply because the quality of person that is a true student athlete would raise substantially.

you also would send a message to up and coming student athletes that academics is what really matters.

of course that might mean a couple of derrick roses never get a chance to play one season of college athletics and that apparently is just not good.

I agree 100%.

I've never understood why the NBA doesn't add 1 minor league team per team, expand the draft and take those kids that have no intention of going to college. You wouldn't have to pay them alot 30-40 K per player. You'd have a better chance to take a kid who you believe has potential and develop him yourself. The cost of the entire team wouldn't be much more than the price of 1 midtier player on every NBA roster. How many of these High School kids that were drafted turn out to be flops or just average players because they were thrust into situations with expectations attatched to them that they couldn't handle. I can guarantee you every NBA team has wasted millions of dollars. For the kids, if you really don't want to go to school, and your dream is to play in the NBA ... why wouldn't you want to apprentice for an NBA team and make 30 - 40 K a year rather than have the hastle of going to school and make nothing. For the fans, if you put the teams in smaller cities close to the NBA team, I bet they'd go see them as they'd be their teams future players. Even if the NBA couldn't make the team make money or break even, wouldn't the benefit outweigh the current system where you gamble on these kids and risk millions of dollars.

[William Iken]

As Cowboy stated earlier in this thread, the issue was with a class when Ellis was in high school in Perth, Australia, before he started attending the Australian Institute of Sport.

One reason for why Salecich is qualified and Ellis is not at this time is that Salecich is from the province of Queensland. Perth, where Ellis is from, is in the province of Western Australia. To put it in American terms, think the Australian version of New York and California, as far as distance across the country is concerned.

The closest American examples I can think of to the Australian Institute of Sport would be either the US Soccer junior residency program or the IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida. Basically they are programs for kids with excellent athletic skills, with a clear focus on athletics, but they also make time for academic coursework as well. The SLU Men's Soccer program has has a few players from the US Soccer Residency program in recent years, John DiRaimondo, Brian Grazier, and Tim Ward. My understanding is that the AIS offers scholarships to kids thought to be superb athletically when they have a year or two left in high school. If they accept the scholarship, then they leave their previous high school and complete their high school education at the AIS, while playing their sport at a higher level.

Desmet, you're the closest yet to accurately describe the AIS, and the IMG analogy is a good one (although AIS is completely publicly funded, as are the various state level institutes of sport). But mate, Canada has provinces, Australia has States (and two territories)!

[cheeseman]

i am curious, if this is a matter that the ncaa doesnt like ellis college prep scenario academically because of the pass/fail thing, then why is salecich in and ellis not? according to the roster at slubillikens.com, both attended "intstitute of sport" (am i the only one rolling my eyes and shaking my head whenever hearing the name of this "academic institution"?), wouldnt salecich be in the same boat? i fear there are bigger issues than what we have been leaked. i seriously doubt the ncaa would go out of their way to "royally screw" saint louis university. slu has always had a great relationship with the ncaa (didnt slu just get rewarded an ncaa men's basketball regional?) that i am aware of and i dont believe for one minute this is a backup in processing.

there is more to the story. has to be. now what that is, i have no clue, but personally i have now pretty much accepted cody ellis isnt going to be a billiken. i hope like hell i am wrong, because it is pretty obvious he was the crown jewel of this recruiting class, but face the facts folks, it's over a month into the school year. even if cleared, i just dont see how a student can be allowed to first start classes this far into the school semester.

Roy, at one time I use to be the curriculum representative for the large school district I worked for to the NCAA among many other responsibilities. Every time we would put in a new course or upgrade an existing one the NCAA was always quick to deny or question what we were doing. For example, if you took a biology course and called it Living World which was what the National Science Groups were pushing then the NCAA would say no go because they only accept Biology even though the curriculum was the same. What I learned was keep it simply stupid when it came to them - what I would do when I would send in the annual course information that they required was say Living World formally Biology 1 and include the course objectives. The NCAA has a paper pusher who reviews all this they look for key words and in this type of case if it says Biology then they are OK but if it does not then they flag it. My guess is the school Cody went to is not wise to the terminology game with the NCAA and such does not know how to play correctly. The NCAA does not like pass/fail but what you can do is tell them that to pass you must have a minimum of 70% in the class - they would buy this but not simply pass/fail. What you can also do with a pass/fail issue with them is recalculate the GPA for the kid fitting in a grade of C for the pass and then the NCAA is fine - you have to talk to them in their language not the language that most everybody else speaks. You would think that the NCAA would have educators reviewing this stuff but they don't - there is clerks working under somebody and the somebody does not have time to review all the flags that a clerk posts until somebody raises a stink. I am not the least bit surprised to see the NCAA being a problem over this kind of issue. Now that being said, perhaps you are right there could be something else at play also.

[DeSmetBilliken]

Desmet, you're the closest yet to accurately describe the AIS, and the IMG analogy is a good one (although AIS is completely publicly funded, as are the various state level institutes of sport). But mate, Canada has provinces, Australia has States (and two territories)!

Sorry. My mistake.

[redbirdfan]

Interesting:

Former SLU player Ruben Cotto, a one-year standout at Alton High, has returned to his native Puerto Rico and is playing ball there. Cotto averaged 22.3 points per game two years ago for the 24-7 Redbirds. Cotto played in just seven games for the 18-14 Billkens last season.

Linky-poo

You guys are reading too much into this link..It says he's playing ball in PR. It doesn't say he's going to school or playing Pro ball. Street ball and pick up games are the more likely scenario here. There is NO evidence it's anything more than that.

[Hawk]

i am sure the likes of calipari would be all about honesty if this was the case.

it has long been my belief that the one thing that can control college athletics is strictly enforcing academics and academics alone. if 100% of college athletic police work was about academics only, i have long believed that most of the messes and issues would go away simply because the quality of person that is a true student athlete would raise substantially.

you also would send a message to up and coming student athletes that academics is what really matters.

of course that might mean a couple of derrick roses never get a chance to play one season of college athletics and that apparently is just not good.

Don't kid yourself. When it comes to revenue sports (football and basketball), it's all about the money (obviously). Those kids like Rose playing equal big bucks for the NCAA and allow NBA teams to scout for free for a year and see which kids will bust and which ones have the most potential (NBA buzzword). The thing is the NCAA really has no say in it. There is nothing about the one and done rule that has to do with the NCAA. That's the NBA and their players union. NCAA is not, and will not, be part of those talks. The collective bargaining agreement is up in 2010 or 2011 if I remember correctly, but if anything, it will go up to a 'two and done' deal.

[billiken_roy]

Don't kid yourself. When it comes to revenue sports (football and basketball), it's all about the money (obviously). Those kids like Rose playing equal big bucks for the NCAA and allow NBA teams to scout for free for a year and see which kids will bust and which ones have the most potential (NBA buzzword). The thing is the NCAA really has no say in it. There is nothing about the one and done rule that has to do with the NCAA. That's the NBA and their players union. NCAA is not, and will not, be part of those talks. The collective bargaining agreement is up in 2010 or 2011 if I remember correctly, but if anything, it will go up to a 'two and done' deal.

i agree it is big buck. i dont agree it is because of athletes like rose. dave gavitt said years ago the difference between college sports and professional sports is that college sports is about the name on the front of the jersey and professional sports is about the names on the back. i truly believe that and credit the popularity of college sports to that fact. not the likes of a derrick rose or a reggie bush that had no business in college.

college sports would be just as popular if not more so if the non students never set foot on the college scene.

[Hawk]

i agree it is big buck. i dont agree it is because of athletes like rose. dave gavitt said years ago the difference between college sports and professional sports is that college sports is about the name on the front of the jersey and professional sports is about the names on the back. i truly believe that and credit the popularity of college sports to that fact. not the likes of a derrick rose or a reggie bush that had no business in college.

college sports would be just as popular if not more so if the non students never set foot on the college scene.

I agree 100%. I really think the best solution is a '0 and 4' rule. You don't have to go to college but if you do, you must graduate. If you can do that in three years, fine. As a fan, I'm cheering for whoever is wearing my team's jersey. I could care less. I think a less athletic, more 'pure' college game would be great. As it is 'student athlete' is more a joke and oxymoron (for the most part). There are exceptions to this. Intelligent players with NBA potential. Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years because he worked his ass off and got it done. Harrison Barnes (top player in class of 2010) is a 4.0 student and is taking which school has the best business school into which school he decides to play for.

[Clock_Tower]

I agree 100%. I really think the best solution is a '0 and 4' rule. You don't have to go to college but if you do, you must graduate. If you can do that in three years, fine. As a fan, I'm cheering for whoever is wearing my team's jersey. I could care less. I think a less athletic, more 'pure' college game would be great. As it is 'student athlete' is more a joke and oxymoron (for the most part). There are exceptions to this. Intelligent players with NBA potential. Emeka Okafor graduated in 3 years because he worked his ass off and got it done. Harrison Barnes (top player in class of 2010) is a 4.0 student and is taking which school has the best business school into which school he decides to play for.

I believe I understand understand what you mean about the '0 and 4' rule but I really don't want kids in college/NCAA if they don't want to be there. If the non-students can be kept away before enrolling, then great. If not, leave whenever you want and don't let the door hit you on the way out. The reality is that the on-court superstar who skips class gets the attention instead of the solid/contributor who not only goes to class but is an honors student so let these kids get out -- don't try to keep them here. The NCAA did just fine without Jordan for his Senior year and didn't miss Kobe, etc. at all. W/o OJ Mayo, I don't recall a drop off in fan interest/TV ratings. The college game does not need these top 5 or 10 kids. The NBA owners, in contrast, don't like giving away millions of guaranteed to high school kids who may or may not mature and develop both on and off the court.

[Hawk]

I believe I understand understand what you mean about the '0 and 4' rule but I really don't want kids in college/NCAA if they don't want to be there. If the non-students can be kept away before enrolling, then great. If not, leave whenever you want and don't let the door hit you on the way out. The reality is that the on-court superstar who skips class gets the attention instead of the solid/contributor who not only goes to class but is an honors student so let these kids get out -- don't try to keep them here. The NCAA did just fine without Jordan for his Senior year and didn't miss Kobe, etc. at all. W/o OJ Mayo, I don't recall a drop off in fan interest/TV ratings. The college game does not need these top 5 or 10 kids. The NBA owners, in contrast, don't like giving away millions of guaranteed to high school kids who may or may not mature and develop both on and off the court.

They can go to Europe, or the D-League. Europe isn't a bad idea for them. 500k if the kids as good as they think.

The NCAA is essentially a free minor league system for the NBA right now. They could develop the D-League into MLB minor league type system. Point is until the NCAA puts it foot down in some way, NBA will continue to use them.

[Clock_Tower]

They can go to Europe, or the D-League. Europe isn't a bad idea for them. 500k if the kids as good as they think.

The NCAA is essentially a free minor league system for the NBA right now. They could develop the D-League into MLB minor league type system. Point is until the NCAA puts it foot down in some way, NBA will continue to use them.

As long as the NCAA has college games, it will be a developmental league/source for both kids and the NBA. College baseball is a developmental league for MLB - but clearly not the only/best. Kids who want to develop and study go to the college and those who only want to play ball, go to the minors. What's wrong with that? What do you want the NCAA to do? to "put its foot down?" Most kids who play college basketball are more like TL and KL than they are D. Rose, OJ Mayo, etc.

[drkelsey55]

From LASALLEFAN on the A10 board:

1)Removed Vernon Goodridge from the 2009-10 roster as he was denied his last year of eligibility in mid-September.

2)Added 6'8" former walk-on Steve Weingarten to last years, this years and next years roster as he was given a scholarship by Coach Giannini last year.

3) Removed Nurideen Lindsay from the 2009-10 and 2010-11 rosters. Lindsay verballed to La Salle two years ago but never signed and did not even play his senior year of high school. His whereabouts are unknown, but what has been known for the past year is that he'd never wear a La Salle uniform.

4) Removed Ruben Cotto from the 2010-11 roster. Cotto verballed to La Salle back in the spring and was supposed to transfer into La Salle in 2010 after spending this year at an Illinois juco. But he never enrolled and is now playing professionally in Puerto Rico.

[kevinfootes]

I agree 100%.

I've never understood why the NBA doesn't add 1 minor league team per team, expand the draft and take those kids that have no intention of going to college. You wouldn't have to pay them alot 30-40 K per player. You'd have a better chance to take a kid who you believe has potential and develop him yourself. The cost of the entire team wouldn't be much more than the price of 1 midtier player on every NBA roster. How many of these High School kids that were drafted turn out to be flops or just average players because they were thrust into situations with expectations attatched to them that they couldn't handle. I can guarantee you every NBA team has wasted millions of dollars. For the kids, if you really don't want to go to school, and your dream is to play in the NBA ... why wouldn't you want to apprentice for an NBA team and make 30 - 40 K a year rather than have the hastle of going to school and make nothing. For the fans, if you put the teams in smaller cities close to the NBA team, I bet they'd go see them as they'd be their teams future players. Even if the NBA couldn't make the team make money or break even, wouldn't the benefit outweigh the current system where you gamble on these kids and risk millions of dollars.

I don't think the NBA wants to pay any money when they have a system that develops players for free...the NCAA. Sure there are a few fringe players, but the NBA gets plenty of talent from the NCAA and overseas and I just don't see why this would be a smart financial move for them. If an NBA wants to take a risk on a guy who is may be too young, that's their problem. Not every team had drafted a high school player.

Also, minor league basketball has a pretty long history of being unsuccessful.

[kevinfootes]

I believe I understand understand what you mean about the '0 and 4' rule but I really don't want kids in college/NCAA if they don't want to be there. If the non-students can be kept away before enrolling, then great. If not, leave whenever you want and don't let the door hit you on the way out. The reality is that the on-court superstar who skips class gets the attention instead of the solid/contributor who not only goes to class but is an honors student so let these kids get out -- don't try to keep them here. The NCAA did just fine without Jordan for his Senior year and didn't miss Kobe, etc. at all. W/o OJ Mayo, I don't recall a drop off in fan interest/TV ratings. The college game does not need these top 5 or 10 kids. The NBA owners, in contrast, don't like giving away millions of guaranteed to high school kids who may or may not mature and develop both on and off the court.

I agree with you on this one. Life is much easier for those who have college degrees, but there are plenty of extremely successful people in the world who didn't finish college. You could make a reasonable argument that a person with 2 years of college can't be a doctor, but that doesn't really hold true with basketball.

[redbirdfan]

From LASALLEFAN on the A10 board:

1)Removed Vernon Goodridge from the 2009-10 roster as he was denied his last year of eligibility in mid-September.

2)Added 6'8" former walk-on Steve Weingarten to last years, this years and next years roster as he was given a scholarship by Coach Giannini last year.

3) Removed Nurideen Lindsay from the 2009-10 and 2010-11 rosters. Lindsay verballed to La Salle two years ago but never signed and did not even play his senior year of high school. His whereabouts are unknown, but what has been known for the past year is that he'd never wear a La Salle uniform.

4) Removed Ruben Cotto from the 2010-11 roster. Cotto verballed to La Salle back in the spring and was supposed to transfer into La Salle in 2010 after spending this year at an Illinois juco. But he never enrolled and is now playing professionally in Puerto Rico.

Should read, he is now playing in PR.