Jeremy Felton

[3star_recruit]

A few more thoughts;

1. STL - TL was a great rebounder under Brad. At the same time, he should not have had so many chances to rebound. Instead, we should have signed one or two power forwards to complement IV (2 years ago), BH (last year) and WR and BT (this year). Also, with a real point guard, TL could have been used differently. In short, we had TL rebound because we lacked others.

No doubt that TL's rebounding numbers were slighty skewed because of his part-time duties as a 4. That doesn't explain how the nation's best rebounding guard was transformed overnight to a player who barely outrebounded his backcourt mate last year.

2. Roy. Acknowledge that BT was leaning toward SLU. But then again, so was Stemler, Harrelson, Peterson (?) who chose Iowa w/o a head coach over SLU, and a whole host of other high school seniors and JUCOs (including the mineral area college guy). Femi John was listed more as one of the local AAU guys. Possibly you heard and knew about Reed from Kansas City but I did not.

We were in the top 3 for Stemler, Harrelson and Peterson but unlike the 2008 kids they never made a public statement that SLU was the favorite.

[cheeseman]

you are right. the fact that rickma has come back this year and far exceeded last year's recruiting is more than proof that brad and angres didnt give him any head start last summer.

Roy, my original post was not about comparing Brad and RM as recruiters. It was a response to StLhoops saying he really liked the approach that Brad was taking in recruiting. Now you bring up this comparison thing for who knows what reasons - I will say that if RM does not deliver some good players this fall I will be disappointed and concerned the same as I was with Brad's performance. You agreed when Brad was here - as I did - that we should let Brad play out the string on the recruiting season before passing judgment - I would hope you would be fair and do the same for RM. Also, it did make sense to keep Thorpe around, somebody had to keep the ship floating while SLU looked for a new coach. If RM had not come then we would have hired somebody else and until then Thorpe's job was to keep the lights on - he did that with the promise of a job the next year. I am sure he did maintain contact with kids that were being recruited during that interim period but to say that he was the reason they signed would be a big jump. Finally, most people would agree that most kids pick the school because of the coach - therefore, to say that once Brad left the kids still signed because they were in love with SLU makes little sense. I do agree that RM and his staff did not have to sell the kids on the school but clearly they had not made up their minds until RM was hired.

[STL Hoops Insider]

STLHI ... would you prefer SLU be a good team (make the tourney every few years, solid NIT team)of local players or a consistent tourney team of players from across the country.

I think you have to do the first part that question before you can do the 2nd part, you know crawl before you can walk. I would like for SLU to make it every year, but I think they have to do it recruiting from the inside out. It does bother me when other schools on the same level or better than SLU make the 1st offers to players that SLU has more of an opportunity to see on a regular basis. I'm not referring to either coach in this instance. I understand that Majerus can pull some national recruits so I'm a little more patient and I see he landed a nice coup today.

[Clock_Tower]

Roy, my original post was not about comparing Brad and RM as recruiters. It was a response to StLhoops saying he really liked the approach that Brad was taking in recruiting. Now you bring up this comparison thing for who knows what reasons - I will say that if RM does not deliver some good players this fall I will be disappointed and concerned the same as I was with Brad's performance. You agreed when Brad was here - as I did - that we should let Brad play out the string on the recruiting season before passing judgment - I would hope you would be fair and do the same for RM. Also, it did make sense to keep Thorpe around, somebody had to keep the ship floating while SLU looked for a new coach. If RM had not come then we would have hired somebody else and until then Thorpe's job was to keep the lights on - he did that with the promise of a job the next year. I am sure he did maintain contact with kids that were being recruited during that interim period but to say that he was the reason they signed would be a big jump. Finally, most people would agree that most kids pick the school because of the coach - therefore, to say that once Brad left the kids still signed because they were in love with SLU makes little sense. I do agree that RM and his staff did not have to sell the kids on the school but clearly they had not made up their minds until RM was hired.

Well said Cheese - especially the part about players picking the school because of the coach. Personally, I never had the feeling that we would have landed Suggs. No first hand knowledge, I just thought he would choose a more established program where he could step into and not build from scratch. With that said, we never had even a remote chance after Brad left despite Angus sticking around.

Also, let's not sell Angus short. Angus did more than stick around to help land BT, WR and FJ. He has a solid basketball resume and personally knew last year's players. No doubt, Angus talked with RM extensively throughout the season and was uniquely able to compare their current performances and attitudes to prior years. No doubt Angus helped TL and KL get through some tough times last year -- both helping them communicate to RM and RM to them.

Regarding next year's recruiting class, good news is posted about the 6'7" kid from Ohio so no need to mention here.

[Pistol]

Well said Cheese - especially the part about players picking the school because of the coach. Personally, I never had the feeling that we would have landed Suggs. No first hand knowledge, I just thought he would choose a more established program where he could step into and not build from scratch. With that said, we never had even a remote chance after Brad left despite Angus sticking around.

Also, let's not sell Angus short. Angus did more than stick around to help land BT, WR and FJ. He has a solid basketball resume and personally knew last year's players. No doubt, Angus talked with RM extensively throughout the season and was uniquely able to compare their current performances and attitudes to prior years. No doubt Angus helped TL and KL get through some tough times last year -- both helping them communicate to RM and RM to them.

Regarding next year's recruiting class, good news is posted about the 6'7" kid from Ohio so no need to mention here.

Not to split hairs, but Coach Thorpe's first name is Angres. I agree that he's a heck of an assistant coach and I was sad to see him go.

[Clock_Tower]

No doubt that TL's rebounding numbers were slighty skewed because of his part-time duties as a 4. That doesn't explain how the nation's best rebounding guard was transformed overnight to a player who barely outrebounded his backcourt mate last year.

We were in the top 3 for Stemler, Harrelson and Peterson but unlike the 2008 kids they never made a public statement that SLU was the favorite.

3 Star. On many recruiting fronts, I defer to you. You know better than me what kids say privately and what their real attitudes are. As to public statements, though, Harrelso made it quite clear that SLU was it for him. All that Spring, he bitterly made public statements that Brad never offered him but wished he would have. Then, he got stuck and could not get free from WIU, in large part, because of his public statements. Then, he even begged for a scholarship the day RM was hired. Thereafter, he made many public statements about SLU being his favorite and, by all accounts, was coming to SLU until Kentucky came in late, his eyes got large and picked them over us. As to Stemler, the posts and stories I read indicated that he was clearly leaning to SLU until IU came in at the end. We again came in second place. But for the late coming SEC and Big 10 schools, they were coming to SLU. We also came in second for the Peterson kid. What public statements are you suggesting? Verbal committments? I concede that they did not verbally comimit to SLU but neither did FJ, WR and BT. Therefore, how can you say Stemler, Harrelson and Peterson were not for sure coming to SLU but that FJ, WR and BT were.

As to TL, he clearly regressed last year in several areas - rebounding was one of them. At the same time, IMO he played much tougher, he took much better care of the ball - less of his dribbles leading to turnover and 2 points the other direction - and IMO he was not (under Brad) turning into the elite player he most likely wants to be. While he may have liked playing for Brad and while he was often our best player, his play was too soft to play much post SLU. TL controlled Brad and Brad went along. Now, RM is controlling TL and hopefully TL will continue to respond. No thanking RM is needed now, but I would suspect (if TL continues to respond) that TL thanks RM next year. No doubt in my mind that RM can make TL a better player than Brad could. I could give you many examples of guys who start well but who stagnate and/or regress as the years go on.

Clearly, his performance this year will prove that RM either hurt him or helped him.

[Clock_Tower]

Not to split hairs, but Coach Thorpe's first name is Angres. I agree that he's a heck of an assistant coach and I was sad to see him go.

Pistol. You're right. I either was thinking about Angus Brandt (following that thread) or was thinking about having a good steak for dinner.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Angres Thorpe had a lot to do with the recruiting haul for the class of '09. He helped land Reed and John and worked hard to get Ruben Cotto.

[Guest BillikenReport]

As to public statements, though, Harrelso made it quite clear that SLU was it for him. All that Spring, he bitterly made public statements that Brad never offered him but wished he would have. Then, he got stuck and could not get free from WIU, in large part, because of his public statements. Then, he even begged for a scholarship the day RM was hired. Thereafter, he made many public statements about SLU being his favorite and, by all accounts, was coming to SLU until Kentucky came in late, his eyes got large and picked them over us.

I don't know where you got this from. After signing with Western Illinois, Harrellson didn't make "public statements" about SLU. No one was covering his recruiting at that time.

Did Harrellson tell people close to him that he was interested in SLU and would consider the Billikens if he could get out of his letter of intent to Western? Yes, I believe he did.

After he was released from his scholarship to Western, Harrellson was careful not to proclaim any school as his favorite — at least publicly. SLU was in the mix, of course, but was never named as his favorite. Kentucky knew about Harrellson before he was released from his scholarship to Western. There was a Kentucky assistant coach at Meramec Community College at the same time Majerus was there last December.

[cheeseman]

Angres Thorpe had a lot to do with the recruiting haul for the class of '09. He helped land Reed and John and worked hard to get Ruben Cotto.

My comments regarding AT was not to say that he had no hand in the recruiting process but to simply point out that he was not the sole reason that we got those kids as Roy was implying. Interesting comment about Cotto and AT - I guess RM was able to maintain the bridges that AT had built.

[Clock_Tower]

I don't know where you got this from. After signing with Western Illinois, Harrellson didn't make "public statements" about SLU. No one was covering his recruiting at that time.

Did Harrellson tell people close to him that he was interested in SLU and would consider the Billikens if he could get out of his letter of intent to Western? Yes, I believe he did.

After he was released from his scholarship to Western, Harrellson was careful not to proclaim any school as his favorite — at least publicly. SLU was in the mix, of course, but was never named as his favorite. Kentucky knew about Harrellson before he was released from his scholarship to Western. There was a Kentucky assistant coach at Meramec Community College at the same time Majerus was there last December.

As I asked 3 Star, please define what you mean as "public statements." If what you mean, and the way I take it, is a true statement made by the kid which either intentionally or unintentionally makes it way out to the general public, then yes, they did make public statements. If, on the other hand, Verbal Commitments are what is needed to be a "public statement" and if only "public statements" are used to express a kid's desire, then as I mentioned, No, Harrelson did not publicly state his intentions to go to SLU. As Nate mentions, had he done so, he'd have NCAA problems and the NCAA would be investigating SLU for tampering charges. Again, as I mentioned to 3 Star, please direct me to the "public statements" which were made by WR, BT and FJ prior to RM first obtaining Verbal Commitments, then signed LOIs and then having them matriculate.

Back to the purpose of my comments. I posted in response to what I thought was a "back-hand" shot to RM. RM landed WR, BT and FJ and to marginalize and/or imply that Brad was really responsible or that they were coming to SLU anyway is wrong. Second, to marginalize RM's accomplishments in landing these guys by giving credit, instead, to Angres and then to imply that RM used Angres is wrong. Third, to marginalize RM's work in landing this year's freshman class, to state that RM only had a good class last year because Brad set the table and that Angres was the lead recruiter is wrong and then to imply that RM is striking out this year, without the work of Brad and Agres, with this year's Fall recruiting class is also wrong.

As painful as it may be, please give credit where it is to RM.

[STL Hoops Insider]

The myth I want to erase is that Josh made some magical transformation from the fall to the summer that took him only good enough for Western Illinois to him being good enough to play for Kentucky. Josh was always a very good basketball player. He was good enough to have had an offer from SLU and be a primary target heading into his senior season. The argument is often made that Brad was chasing other guys like Pullen and wanted to keep scholarships for them, but he was never one to run out of scholarships, so I dont understand why Harrellson occupying one of those scholarship with a commitment would keep him from getting Pullen and co. Many argued with me over and over that he couldnt be that good or he wouldn't have just had an offer from WIU. The argument was made that if Brad was missing out, so were a lot of other coaches and over 300 coaches couldnt be wrong. I kept explaining that Josh's AAU team didnt do much traveling so he wasnt seen. If someone didnt go to a local AAU tourney, which are rare or to see St. Charles High play, they didnt see Josh Harrellson play. The part that was crazy was that when I told some people to go to some St Charles games and see for themselves, they told me that they didnt need to see because his only was from WIU. I hope this kind of logic now out the window on this board.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Back to the purpose of my comments. I posted in response to what I thought was a "back-hand" shot to RM. RM landed WR, BT and FJ and to marginalize and/or imply that Brad was really responsible or that they were coming to SLU anyway is wrong. Second, to marginalize RM's accomplishments in landing these guys by giving credit, instead, to Angres and then to imply that RM used Angres is wrong. Third, to marginalize RM's work in landing this year's freshman class, to state that RM only had a good class last year because Brad set the table and that Angres was the lead recruiter is wrong and then to imply that RM is striking out this year, without the work of Brad and Agres, with this year's Fall recruiting class is also wrong.

I agree with you on this stuff. Majerus was the reason most of the eight incoming freshmen chose SLU. Thorpe helped. You can say Soderberg helped with Thompson, Reed and John, though it is incorrect to say Reed and John were leaning toward SLU when BS was still the coach.

As for the whole public statement stuff... When a prospect is talking to someone from a newspaper or one of the recruiting websites and knows the information is going to be published, that is a public statement. If the same prospect is talking to some classmates about his recruiting, he probably doesn't expect those comments to be distributed to the rest of the world.

There is a big difference.

[billiken_roy]

My comments regarding AT was not to say that he had no hand in the recruiting process but to simply point out that he was not the sole reason that we got those kids as Roy was implying. Interesting comment about Cotto and AT - I guess RM was able to maintain the bridges that AT had built.

cheese just as you took stlhi to task about his observance and opinion that brad had some positive inroads to local recruiting, (you said, "After Luke, TL and KL, his recruitment of locals had sputter out.") i pointed out that stlhi was indeed correct that brad had not "sputter out" and had a great hand in the bringing in of 3 of this year's prized class, plus other local recruits that rickma didnt like for whatever reason.

i did not say that brad was the sole reason we landed thompson, reed and john as you leaped to judgement of my words. if i said that in a post in this thread then please show me the quote.

i will say that while i agree brad isnt the sole reason they are at slu, i will say had brad and angres not done the preliminary ground work, i am doubting that rickma would have been in position to close the deal on the three of them, thus, reason you should give soderberg and angres some credit instead of complete "sputter out" claims.

[Guest BillikenReport]

The part that was crazy was that when I told some people to go to some St Charles games and see for themselves, they told me that they didnt need to see because his only was from WIU. I hope this kind of logic now out the window on this board.

There was only really one person who took this stance on the board and beat that horse over and over again.

That same person is supportive of SLU giving a scholarship to a kid who was originally headed to Division 3 Fontbonne.

[Clock_Tower]

cheese just as you took stlhi to task about his observance and opinion that brad had some positive inroads to local recruiting, (you said, "After Luke, TL and KL, his recruitment of locals had sputter out.") i pointed out that stlhi was indeed correct that brad had not "sputter out" and had a great hand in the bringing in of 3 of this year's prized class, plus other local recruits that rickma didnt like for whatever reason.

i did not say that brad was the sole reason we landed thompson, reed and john as you leaped to judgement of my words. if i said that in a post in this thread then please show me the quote.

i will say that while i agree brad isnt the sole reason they are at slu, i will say had brad and angres not done the preliminary ground work, i am doubting that rickma would have been in position to close the deal on the three of them, thus, reason you should give soderberg and angres some credit instead of complete "sputter out" claims.

Roy. Brad did "sputter out" with second to last recruiting class consisting of only DM in the Fall and then adding Ikeafor, Dixon and AK in the Spring. Bad recruiting class IMO. Brad's last year, having signed no one in the Fall (Brad's own words were that he "struck out" on everyone he tried for in the Fall) and then signed only Relephorde and Mitchell in the Spring. Again, bad recruiting class IMO.

Hard to imagine why TL and KL liked Brad so much and have had rough spots with RM. While a nice character guy and a personable coach (and complete opposite of RM), Brad utterly failed to get TL and KL any help. Brad never could land a power forward, he struck out with guys like Dixon and Ikeafor. Brad rode his surprising success of IV as long as he could and was then content to ride KL and TL as long as he could. Brad's initial classes of guys like Ohanon, Bryant, Drejaj and then DP, DB, LM and then KL and TL were good. After this, his recruiting did "sputter out." Believe it to be quite a stretch to say that Brad rebounding from his recruiting failures by "setting the table" for BT, WR and FJ.

[billiken_roy]

Roy. Brad did "sputter out" with second to last recruiting class consisting of only DM in the Fall and then adding Ikeafor, Dixon and AK in the Spring. Bad recruiting class IMO. Brad's last year, having signed no one in the Fall (Brad's own words were that he "struck out" on everyone he tried for in the Fall) and then signed only Relephorde and Mitchell in the Spring. Again, bad recruiting class IMO.

Hard to imagine why TL and KL liked Brad so much and have had rough spots with RM. While a nice character guy and a personable coach (and complete opposite of RM), Brad utterly failed to get TL and KL any help. Brad never could land a power forward, he struck out with guys like Dixon and Ikeafor. Brad rode his surprising success of IV as long as he could and was then content to ride KL and TL as long as he could. Brad's initial classes of guys like Ohanon, Bryant, Drejaj and then DP, DB, LM and then KL and TL were good. After this, his recruiting did "sputter out." Believe it to be quite a stretch to say that Brad rebounding from his recruiting failures by "setting the table" for BT, WR and FJ.

clock you are taking an extreme view. to me sputter out would mean nothing. absolutely nothing. and simply that isnt true. i will agree it isnt great or even good. but his local efforts were more than nothing.

if we are arguing semantics, so be it.

[billiken_roy]

There was only really one person who took this stance on the board and beat that horse over and over again.

That same person is supportive of SLU giving a scholarship to a kid who was originally headed to Division 3 Fontbonne.

another flat out lie nate. i was not the only one that had this opinion. i may have been the most vocal, but not the only one. and i believe that brad would not have bold faced lied in front of the entire tip off club where brad said that he asked him (harrelson) to wait and he wouldnt when asked about being offering harrelson a scholarship in the fall of his senior year(many others have attested to hear brad at that billiken club meeting make that statement).

considering harrelson's track record reneging on his loi to be closer to home and then heading to kentucky instead, plus leading slu on (one would believe that rickma pretty much figured harrelson was in the bag or he wouldnt have cleared the roster to the extent he did when he did) i would tend to believe soderberg more than harrelson.

[Cowboy]

if my lawn mower is sputtering i can still cut my grass but it just takes a helluva lot longer and it pisses off the neighbors

clock, i agree with your stance on this and in no way find it extreme

defending brad's recruiting at this point, or at any point other than TL, KL and IV, imo, is nuts - look at the results

[Cowboy]

isn't the point of recruiting trying to find kids that fit into your school/program and will make your team better?

josh harrelson at his junior year had played organized bball for 4 yrs and brad could not see the potential?

why did brad have to ask to wait?

because he was not a good recruiter

[Clock_Tower]

isn't the point of recruiting trying to find kids that fit into your school/program and will make your team better?

josh harrelson at his junior year had played organized bball for 4 yrs and brad could not see the potential?

why did brad have to ask to wait?

because he was not a good recruiter

With as many available schollies as Brad had, and just coming off an extremely poor recruiting year, and knowing that OI was not doing enough to rehab his knee, and knowing that Dixon was doing well academically at SLU, Brad either made a poor judgment either by not offering and telling the bird at hand to wait or by mistaking the interest of the 6 "better" guys who all said "No" to Brad in the Fall. Either way, Brad made a mistake.

[STL Hoops Insider]

another flat out lie nate. i was not the only one that had this opinion. i may have been the most vocal, but not the only one. and i believe that brad would not have bold faced lied in front of the entire tip off club where brad said that he asked him (harrelson) to wait and he wouldnt when asked about being offering harrelson a scholarship in the fall of his senior year(many others have attested to hear brad at that billiken club meeting make that statement).

considering harrelson's track record reneging on his loi to be closer to home and then heading to kentucky instead, plus leading slu on (one would believe that rickma pretty much figured harrelson was in the bag or he wouldnt have cleared the roster to the extent he did when he did) i would tend to believe soderberg more than harrelson.

Its true that Roy wasnt the only one, there were several who shared the same or similar opinion. In response to the part about Brad asking him to wait, my question is why? I'm not sure how getting a commitment from a local center would've stopped him getting any of his other targets. Was Brad recruiting any other centers? Brad didnt have to recruit this kid to SLU, he asked to come. Thats what makes it so bad. The Billiken should be heading into this season with the reigning A-10 freshman of the year Josh Harrellson as a sophomore good enough to play for Kentucky. These are the kinds of mistakes that cost you a job. My argument was the timing of his firing, not that SLU shouldn't have made the move to get Majerus. I think Brad did a solid job overall given the circumstances., Brad made some HUGE mistakes in recruiting. I never had a problem with him losing on out on a player he recruited. I had a problem when he didnt recruit kids at all that he should've been recruiting in his own backyard, namely 3 Ahearn, Barnett, and Harrellson. Ahearn turned out to be a college star and NBA player, Barnett is might be the best Ivy League player in the country and Harrellson is playing for a program that many consider to be the best college basketball program of all-time.

[billiken_roy]

With as many available schollies as Brad had, and just coming off an extremely poor recruiting year, and knowing that OI was not doing enough to rehab his knee, and knowing that Dixon was doing well academically at SLU, Brad either made a poor judgment either by not offering and telling the bird at hand to wait or by mistaking the interest of the 6 "better" guys who all said "No" to Brad in the Fall. Either way, Brad made a mistake.

again probably semantics but of your "either or" selections, i guess the answer is mistaking the interest of the better guys who eventually said no. brad tried to hit homeruns to augment lisch and liddell instead of taking the safe hits at home. he obviously paid for it with his job. there is no argument there.

[Clock_Tower]

clock you are taking an extreme view. to me sputter out would mean nothing. absolutely nothing. and simply that isnt true. i will agree it isnt great or even good. but his local efforts were more than nothing.

if we are arguing semantics, so be it.

Roy. Do not believe anything I said is "extreme." Did Brad try? Absolutely. Did Brad make extensive "local efforts?" Absolutely. Had Brad been given more time, could he have redeemed himself for his two (2) prior and awful recruiting classes (and his lack of depth behind TL and KL in their class the year prior-- just a role player or two), we'll never know.

[billiken_roy]

if my lawn mower is sputtering i can still cut my grass but it just takes a helluva lot longer and it pisses off the neighbors

clock, i agree with your stance on this and in no way find it extreme

defending brad's recruiting at this point, or at any point other than TL, KL and IV, imo, is nuts - look at the results

cowboy if cheese had said, "brad's local recruiting efforts were sputtering" i wouldnt have argued about that. however he said, "sputtering OUT". OUT as in nothing. dead. over.

let me know when you need more help with your 3rd grade reader assignments. you are doing better and soon should be up to needed levels to keep up.

Note to other fandom readers: the above last statement may be extreme, however he did call me nuts first.