ot: mayo a confirmed cheat since 9th grade

[Clock_Tower]

Generally speaking, the best baseball, soccer (moreso overseas but increasingly in the US ) and ice hockey players don't go to college. The best football players aren't physically mature enough to go straight to the pros. Some basketball players can go straight to the pros - why not let them? Some won't make it, big deal. Why is the NBA trying to be a nanny? Doesn't improve its playing stock and, as others have well said, the NCAA bears the brundt and negative publicity that follows.

Simple. NBA does not want to pay the money start a "minor league" or developmental league and also does not want to spend huge sums of money on young and unproven guys who will sit the bench and very likely never get off the bench. They want the NCCA to do the work for them. You bring up ice hockey. The Blue have some really good young talent who played this last year in college, overseas and in the minors where they got to play and improve their skills instead of sitting on the NHL bench and not improving. Same with baseball. As to soccer, no opinion, in that I defer to you and Courtside.

[Taj79]

Clock is right ---- the NFL and the NBA have long used the colleges as their "free" developmental league. Why should they pay now for what has been free in the past? Very few high schoolers go right from high school directly to the pros. And if they do, aren't they involved in their own version of "the lottery?" Guaranteed NBA money is only for those in the first round, is it not? Going to the NBDL has got to mean la ife like that of a Single-A baseball player ---- long bus rides, substandard housing, minor meal money, and lots of hard work for coaches like Ron Ekker or Quin Snyder or worse. I do not believe any of these kids (who again see themselves as the next Jordan) have any intention to work their arses off to "prove" themselves to anyone, especially some "failure" on the end of the bench like Ekker or Snyder.

The NBA, in its never-ending greed and fear of being passed up, selects these 18- to 19-year-old phenoms because they are afraid to be passed by. Its all "what if." What if Kwame Brown is the next Jordan? What if Eddie Curry is? What if its DeShawn Stevenson? Yoakim Noah? Larry Hughes? DerMarr Johnson? Corleone Young? That Euro-stiff the Pistons took a couple of years ago? Then, when all these guys fail or at least have less-than-expected success, their three year stints are up and they are moving on. That was three long years and $9 million bucks spents for what amounts to a developmental assignment that one used to get for free in places like Durham, Chapel Hill, Gainesville and so on.

I also don't think you see the exorbitant amounts of money thrown around at high schoolers going pro in baseball, hockey or soccer. In those particular sports, the norm is to prove yourself first and the money comes later. In the convoluted world that is the NBA and the NFL, you get your money up front first, without ever demonstrating you are worthy of such money. Sure, there are a few Bob Horners and Al Kalines out there. But as with any rule there are exceptions. The only real way to get better in almost any sport is through repitition. You don't get that sitting on the bench.

As for soccer, who cares. You can keep all your Peles and Renaldos and Beckhams and Freddie Adus. The sheer size of a soccer field, coupled with the minature size of the ball, makes for poor entertainment vieiwing in my book. This despite going to a soccer school of such proportions.

Given the hype of an OJ Mayo, do oyu think for a moment he would be in such a bush league as the NBDL?

[billiken_roy]

So you think kids with decent grades wouldn't accept money? Why not?

first i dont think the ncaa is able to police all the issues it now faces. so by concentrating on one, academics, it increases the likelihood of success in performing that enforcement work. if i they have to pick one to police, i say academics.

second, i think that by targeting academic cheats, you will eliminate a lot of the character issues. so in a way, yes, i dont think the true student athlete is as likely to take inappropriate money as a kid that is only going through the motions of going to college so they can get to the nba or nfl.

that said, i couldnt care less if a player gets paid. in fact considering the money that college basketball and college football (at the bigger schools) there are compelling arguments for giving the college basketball player and football player a piece of the pie. i dont have strong feelings about it. a full paid college scholarship is a nice perk for their efforts. however, they are still students. so if any aspect should be mandatory, it should be that they indeed are students first and foremost. and if that focus gets non student athletes to leave the scene, which is what i think would happen, all the better.

[slu72]

Simple. NBA does not want to pay the money start a "minor league" or developmental league and also does not want to spend huge sums of money on young and unproven guys who will sit the bench and very likely never get off the bench. They want the NCCA to do the work for them. You bring up ice hockey. The Blue have some really good young talent who played this last year in college, overseas and in the minors where they got to play and improve their skills instead of sitting on the NHL bench and not improving. Same with baseball. As to soccer, no opinion, in that I defer to you and Courtside.

I never agreed w/ the 19 year old rule anyways. It's stupid. If the kid is good enough to play in the NBA the day after he graduates HS let him go. In fact, I think it's a violation of his constitutional rights to deny him a right to make a living. Michelle Wie case in point. What was she 16 and she lands on the LPGA? Hell if she was 12 and could cut it, she has a right to play. What is a one and done player. An immediate fix for a program. A one year fix probably guaranteeing the school a spot in the dance. Ala The Legend here. The kid qualifies, goes about his schoolwork in a half assed manner, because, as I understand it, he can't be declared academically ineligible until after the second semester. So he plays for Ol State U, gets 'em into the dance, then blows off all his second semester classes because he knows he's done. Hell, most of them go home after the NCAA's. This is a student athlete? No, this is a bonus baby whose getting a pretty cushy job until he signs a mult million dollar NBA contract. A better approach would be to let HS seniors get drafted by the NBA. They make it, great for them. They get cut and don't make it the first time they are drafted, they are allowed to return to College and play, but lose a year of eligibility like a transfer, and the NBA team that drafted him pays his scholarship for that year. One and done is a sham. Two and flew would be a sham, same with three and free. Go one way or the other. Free to move after HS, or can't be drafted until his college class graduates. You think there are street agents out there that want to fund a kid for 4 years in the hopes of a big NBA payday? Not many.

[William Iken]

I never agreed w/ the 19 year old rule anyways. It's stupid. If the kid is good enough to play in the NBA the day after he graduates HS let him go. In fact, I think it's a violation of his constitutional rights to deny him a right to make a living. Michelle Wie case in point. What was she 16 and she lands on the LPGA? Hell if she was 12 and could cut it, she has a right to play. What is a one and done player. An immediate fix for a program. A one year fix probably guaranteeing the school a spot in the dance. Ala The Legend here. The kid qualifies, goes about his schoolwork in a half assed manner, because, as I understand it, he can't be declared academically ineligible until after the second semester. So he plays for Ol State U, gets 'em into the dance, then blows off all his second semester classes because he knows he's done. Hell, most of them go home after the NCAA's. This is a student athlete? No, this is a bonus baby whose getting a pretty cushy job until he signs a mult million dollar NBA contract. A better approach would be to let HS seniors get drafted by the NBA. They make it, great for them. They get cut and don't make it the first time they are drafted, they are allowed to return to College and play, but lose a year of eligibility like a transfer, and the NBA team that drafted him pays his scholarship for that year. One and done is a sham. Two and flew would be a sham, same with three and free. Go one way or the other. Free to move after HS, or can't be drafted until his college class graduates. You think there are street agents out there that want to fund a kid for 4 years in the hopes of a big NBA payday? Not many.

Point was simply that other leagues do not protect kids against being drafted out of HS. But fair point, all named (hockey and baseball) but soccer have fully developed 'minor leagues'.

Differences with football obvious, but with basketball I agree with all points made and add that with so few players on each roster, it probably is not worth the NBA really developing a 'minor league' system. Most players would never make it.

SLU72 - you had me but lost me half way through. Too extreme. What about doing it the hockey way- a player can be drafted but rights remain with the team for a few years if the player remains unsigned. If they sign, they are now pros and not eligible. Some won't like this, as the emphasis is certainly not on academics...

Baseball protects the college teams a bit more - if I recall players can be drafted only after certain years in college.

[brianstl]

Point was simply that other leagues do not protect kids against being drafted out of HS. But fair point, all named (hockey and baseball) but soccer have fully developed 'minor leagues'.

Differences with football obvious, but with basketball I agree with all points made and add that with so few players on each roster, it probably is not worth the NBA really developing a 'minor league' system. Most players would never make it.

SLU72 - you had me but lost me half way through. Too extreme. What about doing it the hockey way- a player can be drafted but rights remain with the team for a few years if the player remains unsigned. If they sign, they are now pros and not eligible. Some won't like this, as the emphasis is certainly not on academics...

Baseball protects the college teams a bit more - if I recall players can be drafted only after certain years in college.

Soccer might not have what we would call minor leagues. But there are developmental programs operated around the world by professional clubs that are the equivalent of minor leagues.

[William Iken]

Soccer might not have what we would call minor leagues. But there are developmental programs operated around the world by professional clubs that are the equivalent of minor leagues.

Yes sorry, I was meaning 'in the US'.

Good point though, soccer in Europe has a very extensive system where good players (and teams) can progress. Take England, four professional divisions with an additional top level semi-pro league. Numerous semi-pro leagues below that. Of course, all of the teams in the top tier leagues have a 'reserve' team and a fully functional youth set-up.

[kevinfootes]

first i dont think the ncaa is able to police all the issues it now faces. so by concentrating on one, academics, it increases the likelihood of success in performing that enforcement work. if i they have to pick one to police, i say academics.

second, i think that by targeting academic cheats, you will eliminate a lot of the character issues. so in a way, yes, i dont think the true student athlete is as likely to take inappropriate money as a kid that is only going through the motions of going to college so they can get to the nba or nfl.

that said, i couldnt care less if a player gets paid. in fact considering the money that college basketball and college football (at the bigger schools) there are compelling arguments for giving the college basketball player and football player a piece of the pie. i dont have strong feelings about it. a full paid college scholarship is a nice perk for their efforts. however, they are still students. so if any aspect should be mandatory, it should be that they indeed are students first and foremost. and if that focus gets non student athletes to leave the scene, which is what i think would happen, all the better.

How do you define "true student athlete" roy? Your hero larry hughes certainly wouldn't fall into that category.

[billiken_roy]

How do you define "true student athlete" roy? Your hero larry hughes certainly wouldn't fall into that category.

no argument from me on hughes. larry hughes had no business going to saint louis university. he obviously is one of the players that i DO NOT consider a student athlete and is the prototype of an individual that the ncaa should be looking to keep out of school since he did not apparently have any interest in anything off of the basketball floor.

but he was a hell of a basketball player. one that should have just been in the nba from day one.

[MB73]

no argument from me on hughes. larry hughes had no business going to saint louis university. he obviously is one of the players that i DO NOT consider a student athlete and is the prototype of an individual that the ncaa should be looking to keep out of school since he did not apparently have any interest in anything off of the basketball floor.

but he was a hell of a basketball player. one that should have just been in the nba from day one.

Hey, I agree with broy about Hughes! OJ Mayo thing is a joke, a disgrace, but it is all over, he just got caught.

The system is out of control, big time... too much $$$, should there be categories for basketball and football for "schools where the kids really go to class, i.e. real student athletes" and "schools with OJ Mayo types that get paid"? I say they should do it and get it over with.

[billiken_roy]

Hey, I agree with broy about Hughes! OJ Mayo thing is a joke, a disgrace, but it is all over, he just got caught.

The system is out of control, big time... too much $$$, should there be categories for basketball and football for "schools where the kids really go to class, i.e. real student athletes" and "schools with OJ Mayo types that get paid"? I say they should do it and get it over with.

baseball already has it. it is called the minor leagues. the joke is actually as much on the ncaa as they now are providing a cost free minor leagues for the nba and nfl. make them pony up for their own developmental leagues for the kids that really only are worried about their sports.

[Westy03]

baseball already has it. it is called the minor leagues. the joke is actually as much on the ncaa as they now are providing a cost free minor leagues for the nba and nfl. make them pony up for their own developmental leagues for the kids that really only are worried about their sports.

Not to mention the free maketing and publicity that the NCAA does for their one and done players. Look at all the hype Durant and Oden got last year...it happens every year. NBA is laughing all the way to the bank. Bottom line is the NCAA is a marketing tool that the NBA gets for free.

[slu72]

Not to mention the free maketing and publicity that the NCAA does for their one and done players. Look at all the hype Durant and Oden got last year...it happens every year. NBA is laughing all the way to the bank. Bottom line is the NCAA is a marketing tool that the NBA gets for free.

Was listening to Sirius NFL Radio this am. They were discussing how Joe Falco couldn't attend a passing camp held by the Ravens, because of a conflict w/ finals at Delaware. It seems the NFL has a rule that a draftee can only attend one mini camp until finals or graduation are over. Now come to find out Falco dropped out of Delaware after the combine. He's not even a student, but still can't attend because of this rule. Cross said both hoops and football rules are jokes and only for PR purposes for the pros and college. He cited basketball as being the biggest joke, since spending a year at college basically playing ball isn't doing the kid any more than if he jumped to the NBA right out of HS. And he knows that kids going to the NBA after one year hardly even attend classes. Point being, let the NBA draft anyone at any legal age, ie 18.