Harrellson update

[Clock_Tower]

Roy,

Again, you can believe what you want on this one.

My sources on this are very, very good.

Your source was someone who would have looked bad if he didn't say what you're saying he said. Maybe he needed to say that because of similar players he'd overlooked (like Ahearn).

It doesn't matter. It is over with.

When Harrellson is released from his loi, you will see a lot of schools go after him. Including Saint Louis U.

Nate. Maybe I'm slow but would you clarify. Did your source say Brad was not or no longer interested in Josh at all? Whether as what I would call a Plan A recruit or even as a Plan B or Plan C recruit. Obviously, there had to have some interest in that Brad knew the kid's name and probably watched tape and/or watched him play a few times.

Sounds quite likely that Brad was not interested in Josh enough in the Fall to make Josh his Plan A recruit - hence, no offer of a scholarship. Brad, instead, appears to have been more interested in others and was offering scholarships to others. Seems quite likely, though, that Brad may have been interested in Josh as a Plan B or even Plan C recruit - tried to get Josh to wait until the Spring so that Brad, if his scholarship offers were declined, could then go after Josh as his Plan B or Plan C.

Are you sure that your source said that Brad was not interested in Josh at all - at any time - for SLU?

[billiken_roy]

Well on what you said in paragraph 2, we can certainly agree on.

But how do you know what Nate is saying is a "misstatement"? He usually seems to a credible poster with good sources.

nate is calling soderberg a liar. maybe he is. soderberg always seemed pretty straight forward to me.

and wouldnt it make sense that if soderberg indeed did lie that harrelson wouldnt have continued to pine for a slu experience? i know if an official at the school i wanted to go to lied as such, i would be done with them. yet all we hear is that harrelson never wanted to be anywhere but slu.

[BIG BILL FAN]

nate is calling soderberg a liar. maybe he is. soderberg always seemed pretty straight forward to me.

and wouldnt it make sense that if soderberg indeed did lie that harrelson wouldnt have continued to pine for a slu experience? i know if an official at the school i wanted to go to lied as such, i would be done with them. yet all we hear is that harrelson never wanted to be anywhere but slu.

Brad never did offer, I am still amazed at how Brad could have missed on this kid. Mistakes like this is why Brad doesn't have a job anymore. There is no excuse for not showing interest in a 6'9" 275 lb post player with skill, who is also a qualifier. The other annoying fact that this kid was right in Brad's backyard and played 2 or 3 games against his son and in every game was a dominating factor.

[billiken_roy]

Brad never did offer, I am still amazed at how Brad could have missed on this kid. Mistakes like this is why Brad doesn't have a job anymore. There is no excuse for not showing interest in a 6'9" 275 lb post player with skill, who is also a qualifier. The other annoying fact that this kid was right in Brad's backyard and played 2 or 3 games against his son and in every game was a dominating factor.

so you would have rather have had the harrelson that hadnt played his senior year yet over the juco alexander which was basically brad's choice at the time harrelson verballed?

you do realize that at the time that harrelson verbally committed to western, brad only had two scholarships to give? he obviously needed a point guard with one of them. so really he only had one to give and soderberg had chosen alexander to pursue. the alexander kid who eventually signed with illinois and the very good point guard jacob pullen that later signed at k state both led soderberg to believe were serious. if i was the coach and alexander and pullen seemed to be close to committing i am not offering harrelson at that time either. but i am asking him to wait before committing to someone else to see what pullen and alexander do. which is what soderberg told us after the loi date in a billiken club meeting.

once harrelson committed, it doesnt matter what alexander or any recruit does, soderberg is not going to offer after that point. harrelson had made his choice then and most ethical coaches dont make offers to kids that have committed elsewhere.

of course if harrelson waits until december, brad would have had 4 positions to offer then, as both dixon and obi leave. in all likelihood harrelson would have gotten the offer in november when alexander backed off announcing he was waiting until spring. but again, harrelson had already committed by then.

we shouldnt be arguing about harrelson. we should be wondering why soderberg felt so strongly that alexander was coming. if he hadnt misread that scenario, harrelson probably does get the offer.

[willie]

This whole issue points out a big difference between Brad and Rick. Brad would only recruit 1 for 1. If there was 1 scholarship open he would recruit 1 kid. Rick will continually recruit kids figuring out how to make the numbers work as he goes.I believe many successful coaches over recruit and let the numbers fall where they may. When has SLU had a full roster?Brad should have signed Harrelson and worried about how to make the numbers work if Alexander wants to come. I like the fact that Rick has multiple offers out there. Good programs make it work. I'm afraid some of there "morality issues" will dominate this board for a long time.

[billiken_roy]

willie i think that is a great summary. and we have already seen where folks are accepting that. i am sure more and more of us will come to accept it as well. as long as it never goes over the legal line that is. i know i will never accept that.

[slufanskip]

This whole issue points out a big difference between Brad and Rick. Brad would only recruit 1 for 1. If there was 1 scholarship open he would recruit 1 kid. Rick will continually recruit kids figuring out how to make the numbers work as he goes.I believe many successful coaches over recruit and let the numbers fall where they may. When has SLU had a full roster?Brad should have signed Harrelson and worried about how to make the numbers work if Alexander wants to come. I like the fact that Rick has multiple offers out there. Good programs make it work. I'm afraid some of there "morality issues" will dominate this board for a long time.

I'm with you on this Willie. We were in no position to take a chance that we missed out on both. There are alot of things that are wrong with the entire scenario. How did UB not know that Obi wasn't even close to progressing enough to get on the court. Hell I watched a couple of practices and could easily tell that he had made no progress.

I'm not sure how you can accept more LOI's than you have scholarships, but UB should have figured out how to make sure we came away with one or the other if not both.

[Clock_Tower]

so you would have rather have had the harrelson that hadnt played his senior year yet over the juco alexander which was basically brad's choice at the time harrelson verballed?

you do realize that at the time that harrelson verbally committed to western, brad only had two scholarships to give? he obviously needed a point guard with one of them. so really he only had one to give and soderberg had chosen alexander to pursue. the alexander kid who eventually signed with illinois and the very good point guard jacob pullen that later signed at k state both led soderberg to believe were serious. if i was the coach and alexander and pullen seemed to be close to committing i am not offering harrelson at that time either. but i am asking him to wait before committing to someone else to see what pullen and alexander do. which is what soderberg told us after the loi date in a billiken club meeting.

once harrelson committed, it doesnt matter what alexander or any recruit does, soderberg is not going to offer after that point. harrelson had made his choice then and most ethical coaches dont make offers to kids that have committed elsewhere.

of course if harrelson waits until december, brad would have had 4 positions to offer then, as both dixon and obi leave. in all likelihood harrelson would have gotten the offer in november when alexander backed off announcing he was waiting until spring. but again, harrelson had already committed by then.

we shouldnt be arguing about harrelson. we should be wondering why soderberg felt so strongly that alexander was coming. if he hadnt misread that scenario, harrelson probably does get the offer.

Roy. In the past I had agreed with you on this issue. Now, with more information, I simply do not. You mention that Brad had only 2 scholarships to give. You should be counting 3 and most likely 4. Apparently, Brad and the Admissions Office both knew that HD was not prepared for college academics. His chance for success at SLU were slim. Then, as the academic year progressed, it should have been quite obvious that HD would not make grades. Brad should have know this by the Fall recruiting date. With HD's position being the 4, Harrelson could have received an offer. OI, as well. OI was on this team for over a year. Brad knew alot more than we did/do about OI. Further, there is always room to run guys off as RM is showing.

I place full blame on Brad on this one.

[jjray]

Brad never did offer, I am still amazed at how Brad could have missed on this kid. Mistakes like this is why Brad doesn't have a job anymore. There is no excuse for not showing interest in a 6'9" 275 lb post player with skill, who is also a qualifier. The other annoying fact that this kid was right in Brad's backyard and played 2 or 3 games against his son and in every game was a dominating factor.

I have to agree with this post that Sodie made a huge mistake by not offering Harrellson earlier. He had tons of open scholarships and only 2 bigs returning, neither of whom averaged over 8 minutes a game the prior season (let's not try and call Luke a big). It was stupid. He could have collected Harrellson and had plenty of available scholarships for whatever big fish he was chasing. Was the logic that signing a post player such as Harrellson would scare away another much higher rated post player in the same class? Stupid logic. Agree this sort of thinking was a large contributor to the demise of one Brad Soderberg.

[slu72]

I have to agree with this post that Sodie made a huge mistake by not offering Harrellson earlier. He had tons of open scholarships and only 2 bigs returning, neither of whom averaged over 8 minutes a game the prior season (let's not try and call Luke a big). It was stupid. He could have collected Harrellson and had plenty of available scholarships for whatever big fish he was chasing. Was the logic that signing a post player such as Harrellson would scare away another much higher rated post player in the same class? Stupid logic. Agree this sort of thinking was a large contributor to the demise of one Brad Soderberg.

There are times I think UB was pretty much asleep at the switch. Who better to judge that OBI's commitment was not 100%? As I recall he was pretty much out of shape that whole summer. Wouldn't that have set off a red flag that his scholie could come open at any time. Either voluntarily or just show him the door. Also, the Alexander argument makes no sense because he could have passed onHD. who he knew was an at risk academic. Hell, UB never played frosh anyways, so why the big rush to get HD that fall? That was the one he should have put in the bank for Harrelson. Then he would have had a shot at both Harrelson and Alexander. Hey, Brad, two good bigs are better than one. Face it, HD was a saving face recruit if I ever saw one, and UB said he wouldn't do that. If he gave that one to Harrelson that fall he'd be wearing SLU Blue this season instead of sweating out whether WI's going to release him or not, or worse opening the door for Kelvin Sampson to burgal our house again. God am I glad the UB era is over, which by the way, I don't see anyone knocking down his door to be even an AC at this level.

[Clock_Tower]

There are times I think UB was pretty much asleep at the switch. Who better to judge that OBI's commitment was not 100%? As I recall he was pretty much out of shape that whole summer. Wouldn't that have set off a red flag that his scholie could come open at any time. Either voluntarily or just show him the door. Also, the Alexander argument makes no sense because he could have passed onHD. who he knew was an at risk academic. Hell, UB never played frosh anyways, so why the big rush to get HD that fall? That was the one he should have put in the bank for Harrelson. Then he would have had a shot at both Harrelson and Alexander. Hey, Brad, two good bigs are better than one. Face it, HD was a saving face recruit if I ever saw one, and UB said he wouldn't do that. If he gave that one to Harrelson that fall he'd be wearing SLU Blue this season instead of sweating out whether WI's going to release him or not, or worse opening the door for Kelvin Sampson to burgal our house again. God am I glad the UB era is over, which by the way, I don't see anyone knocking down his door to be even an AC at this level.

Agree with your post but your last sentence is a cheap shot. Only a few HC jobs opened up after Brad was fired (Ball State) and Brad was a finalist there. As far a head coaching, Brad did not need to, nor do I believe he wants to, take an AC job now. Most likely, he will wait until after the season and try for a HC job. If none, then he should easily get an AC job. Then, again, if he waits, gambles, waits again and has similar success to his recruiting, then he will be unemployed next year. Not very likely.

Take the example of Porter Moser. IL State people probably think he is a good man and good recruiter but not a good HC. Maybe he is or maybe he isn't. Kind of like Mike Martz - a good HC or not? Clearly, everyone will admit that Martz is a great offensive co-ordinator but a great HC? Maybe not. Am certain that Porter Moser and Brad are/will be assistant coaches in high demand.