Missouri kids still playing in the NCAA tourney

[VTIME]

Misouri kids still playing -

Tyler Hansbrough - No Carolina (Poplar Bluff)

Jamal Tatum - Siu-C (Jeff City Helias)

Randal Falker - Siu-C (Gateway Tech)

Tony Boyle - Siu-C (DeSoto)

Jamaal Foster - Siu-C (Columbia Hickman)

Brandon Rush - Kansas (from KC, though he transferred to Prep school in NC his Sr year)

Mustafa Abdul-Hamid - UCLA, walk-on (MICDS)

[Taj79]

With SIU's loss last night, this list gets cut to two, Hansborough and Rush. Abdul-Hamid doesn't play for UCLA as I pointed out in a previous post ... as a walk-on he got like 12 minutes all year.

I would think that two kids from the entire state is a pretty interesting statistic that, if wrapped this way or warped that way, is a criminal indictment of the talent level in the overall state.

[brianstl]

Percentage of population wise, the east side puts out for more talent than this side of the river.

[Pistol]

Saying that Abdul-Hamid doesn't play for UCLA is unfair. He does play for them, just not a lot. Just because he's a walk on doesn't mean he deserves no respect. He's an area kid, and he's on their active roster.

[VTIME]

There are 8-12 teams left, should Missouri still have 12 kids playing. Not many states have that many guys left. Only the hotbeds. There are a lot of Missouri kids in D1.

[Taj79]

... in a swamp. Ah, finding the prince, now there's the rub.

Pistol says I'm unfair to Abul-Jabul, oh well ..... with 13 of those types on your roster, you'd go far. Let's remember, ol' Vee baby was asking some time ago how a kid can walk on for UCLA and/or Dayton and not get an inkling from us. Twelve minutes in a year, that's how.

[boomerang]

nice copy & paste - you could have at least changed a word, a comma, or mentioned where you got the info....

[VTIME]

Yeah, a walk-on offer, not a scholarship offer. He must have some extraordinary character for them give him a preferred walk-on deal in the spring of senior year. Its not like he showed up and walked-on. They invited him.

[kevinfootes]

I'm not sure you can make any conclusions whatsoever. There are 8 teams left? How many states have more than 2 players still active?

I'd bet Missouri is middle of the pack, which makes sense when you look at the state's population.

Criminal indictment? That's a little overly dramatic and certainly misleading. I'm willing to say that Missouri is right where it should be.

[Taj79]

... to be able to afford the costs of matriculating to La-La Land, live in a high cost area, pay the tuition and books and fees and all that just for some insane "preferred" walk-on status. It was documented a while ago that this kid had a connection with Howland somehow and that's what sent him out there.

I don't care what you're argument is going to be, the fact is walk-on and sit your *ss on the bench of a former illustrious program and pay all costs yourself, or get a free ride to another school and play some ball. Sure ... every "next coming" is taking the former and not the latter. Probably might have had a Western Illinois, or a Drury, or a SEMO offer in his back pocket.

But you are right, he is there and there is there. Let's see where next year leads him.

[Nate Latsch]

Taj,

Mustafa's final two choices were UCLA and Harvard.

He didn't have many other options, that I know of, but I think it says a lot about the kid that he had those two specific options.

You can rail against basketball players from Missouri all you want, but you also have to consider that Southern Illinois went to the Sweet 16 with four kids that St. Louis University probably could have had if they wanted them: Tatum, Shaw, Falker and Tony Boyle (De Soto).

How's that for proof in the pudding?

- Nate

[Taj79]

So it may be a little strong .... but it was also based on 16 teams playing, not 8.

I'll even agree with you footsie .... you are right, "Missouri is right where it should be." So then you are agreeing that there is only a small percentage of Division 1 caliber kids playing in Missouri high schools at any one given time, correct? And that is somehow based on the state's population, right? I think you are correct there, I recall someone, I think it was Dale Brown, the former coach at LSU, that, once when explaining recruiting, his rationale for going outside of Louisiana to recruit was based on the fact of some sort of per capita equation of blue chippers. His rationale was with more of a population, the chances were greater that getting better players was more easily accomplished by going out of state.

Let's say he was right. So then I guess you are saying the same thing for Missouri and St. Louis. Let's agree to agree. Which would then bring me to my point to Vee, that it is impossible to offer every freakin' St. Louis high school senior and still expect to put a viable product on the court. That is a farce. By footes and mine deduction here, Missouri cannot produce enough Division 1 products to do that.

Again, the key to me is finding the princes in the frogs. Tatum. Baniak. Trice. Duff. Missavage. Smith. Anderson. Renken. Mimlitz. Mueller. Rohde. Moulder. Polk. Robinson. Parker. Sloan. The list of local frogs that stayed home and stayed frogs is pretty endless as far as I'm concerned.

[kshoe]

"but it was also based on 16 teams playing, not 8"

After you took SIU out of the equation how could it still be based on 16 teams?

[kevinfootes]

If you got EVERY good player from Missouri each year I think you could be a top 25 program. Heck, throw Hansbrough on Mizzou, SLU or SMS and they're in the top 25. The problem is that no school is going to be able to do that each year for a lot of reasons.

That said, I'm not so sure it's that different for coaches in bigger cities. Chicago has tons of talented players, but also has Northwestern, DePaul, Loyola, UIC, Chicago St., plus the entire Big 10 and Big East and the rest of the world.

You DO need to get good players from outside your area to supplement the local talent. The old idea about creating a pipeline doesn't pan out. When kids like David Lee come around the big boys will come recruiting and he won't care if you gave scholarships to local, marginal players. In my book, you recruit the best players that you can and know when to cut bait on the guys who aren't interested. If you have a choice between a local kid and somebody from out of town who are equally talented, I'd go with the the local. Otherwise, always take the guys who will help you win the most games.

Some of the "frogs" you mentioned were pretty solid D1 players who could have played for a lot of schools.

[billiken_roy]

nate said,

"you also have to consider that Southern Illinois went to the Sweet 16 with four kids that St. Louis University probably could have had if they wanted them: Tatum, Shaw, Falker and Tony Boyle (De Soto)."

nate, romar offered falker early and falker told him dont bother. shaw was offered by soderberg early summer before his senior year at centralia and shaw also turned slu down.

a scholarship offer = wanted them.

[slufanskip]

It's ridiulous all the kids who wanted to come to SLU but went elsewhere even though a scholarship was offerred.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

[Taj79]

Nate:

C'mon, how come Mustafa's final two choices were UCLA and Harvard? The disparity of those two schools is evident by even more than their opposite coasts distance. Sounds like the kid was a fantastic student (Harvard) with a connection to a basketball school based on camps and coaching clinics (UCLA) if memory serves. This would seem to be in direct contrast to a Hansborough or a Hughes or a Miles who was getting whatever they were getting based purely on basketball ability. Not that it matters, but did anyone offer this kid a full ride for his basketball abilities? Vtime asked a question a long time ago about how come we couldn't get this kid and noted that it was a shame that instead of a full ride at SLU, the poor guy had to go all the way to Los Angeles and get a walk-on tryout. Preferred or not.

Your points about the SIU players are noted. I think SIU deserves tons of credit for doing what they did but to juxtapose those four kids onto the SLU roster and decide what happened in Carbondale would have happened in St. Louis is not necessarily true. If that were the case, then my Sixers of the 80s would have won all their games with Erving, McGinnis, Caldwell and Bobby Jones, Dawkins, Free, Cheeks, Toney and the rest on that roster. A part of the team game constantly overlooked is team chemistry. I am also a firm believer in the role of momentum and confidence. Oh well, sound minds can agree to disagree.

Also, for all the "Polk should be Porter" talk in another thread, Porter seemed to be Polk yesterday. A big goose-egg-for-nine on his way to what, two of eleven shooting? Hey, it happens. I just don't ever see Dwayne posting 33 of anything on any night. I sure hope so and wish him well but that's not our Polk.