Recruiting dilemma

[billiken_roy]

bob, it didnt hurt us that the other school that justin love considered out of juco was pepperdine and the romar/bennett connection either. charles love told me the same story and in fact had considered changing courses until they saw that romar and bennett were coming in to replace spoon.

billikan, i typically back you up, but in this case, i dont see anything wrong with nate's post. it is a fact of what is out there and you can bet that it doesnt matter if it was on this website or not. the scum assistants desparate to get a recruit will all play that card. they all know the situation.

i dont like that nate editorializes his personal opinion of coach soderberg at the end of the same post, but that is just a different opinion of coach soderberg than what you and i have. he makes the statement without any lies, half truths, embelishments or name calling obscenities that we have seen from others here. that is the scenario that rips me up. i dont agree, but i can respect the way he presents it or drew, or slu72, etc. we wont ever all agree and the polarization of the soderberg thing here at billikens.com isnt going to EVER go away. we could win the national championship and we wouldnt hear anything positive about soderberg. only how luck we got or how some player carried us in spite of coach soderberg.

the players get the credit, the coach gets the blame. i am getting used to it.

for the millioneth time, i dont know if coach soderberg is the answer or not, but i dont think slu is capable of picking a successful coach and allowing that coach to succeed regardless. only when the program gets actual full support of the university then we can make that decision. until then, all i know is we will just start over every 5 years by looking for the mythical john wooden/al mcguire that can carry this program to the level everyone wants. the coach isnt the answer to approaching that level.

[billiken_roy]

billikan, there are two reasons that courtside cant possibly be bernie m.

1. courtside is one of the most knowledgeable soccer posters we know. bernie knows nothing about soccer.

2. courtside is a huge mvc opponent. bernie is possibly on the mvc payroll.

courtside may be a local media person, but he isnt bernie m.

[Billikan]

You may be right but he is undoubtedly a good friend of Bernie.

[StLouBlue]

Altman at Creighton had a great quote earlier this year about this very thing. He said something along the lines, that he has stayed longer at Creighton than every coach that has used this line against him have at their schools.

Funny thing is, if Brad has a big successful year, he could become the hot young coach next year. 22 wins and an NCAA bid and he could be highly sought after.

[billiken_roy]

i have no problem with naysayers as long as they are fair and their arguments are backed up with reason and they stay away from personal attacks on not only the billikens and coach soderberg but also other posters.

most of the remaining posters seem to be on board with fair debate now. the metz's and realistic billikenlike posters seem to have disappeared.

[Billikan]

The early observations may be as you say but the cheap shots about how he thinks the coach should be fired -- "go another direction" and the later comments bugged me as inappropriate for a media person. I try to just not post at all because I do not want to create contraversy.

[moytoy12]

It seemed to be a couple of rotten apples spoiling the bunch. Thanks to Steve if he has gotten rid of the problem.

[moytoy12]

How in the world do you consider those "cheap shots"? How is that inappropriate for a media person?

Your problem seems to be that you don't want anyone to say that Brad should be fired.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Look at it this way. If those sharks out there are using negative recruiting tactics against SLU, then they must think they have something to fear.

[moytoy12]

Also, how do we know that SLU doesn't use similar tactics or tactics that are less negative, but negative nonetheless?

[billiken_roy]

billikan, nate advised us last week he is now a realtor and only does a little free lance writing on the side these days.

[billiken_roy]

i dont know about soderberg as i have never asked him, but romar said he was told to find another way and didnt do it.

i would assume if romar was told such, his replacement would get the same rules.

[Billikan]

I did not see that message.

[slufanskip]

Imo this whole discussion is silly. It's the same for every coach. Having a contract extension certainly doesn't prevent a coach from being fired, nor does it prevent him from leaving for a new job. In fact if you are considering going to a mid major, being too good could help your coach receive better offers and leave. It works both ways in reality. It boils down to this ... if we get good players, we will win ... and I will remain your coach. It is not a hard argument to rebutt.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

[slufanskip]

Not only that, being in the media doesn't mean you know what the hell you are talking about anyway.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

[pdolwick]

Exactly. (I guess I don't blame coaches for floating that old bromide, though. Money in their pockets.)

IMO, crazy coaching buyouts are the single biggest problem w/ D1 athletics & maybe the most antithetical to what a university is supposed to be about.

Pat D.

[Billikan]

You said you would be happy to discuss the pros and cons of the season and the state of the program but when I spend a lot of time putting my thoughts in a long post, you do not respond.

[courtside]

You didn't comment on year's two, three, and four of Brad as a head coach. And, Brad's year as an assistant at SLU before getting the head job. Where are comments from those seasons about Brad's work?

You also made accusations of easier majors and easier academics for basketball players at good academic schools....but you didn't list examples. I would need examples.....Vanderbilt? Georgetown? Marquette? Boston College? Notre Dame? Stanford? Villanova?

This is Brad's 6th season on campus, 5th as head coach, twice as long as Romar spent time at SLU. But you seem to say Romar couldn't get it done at SLU, but Brad needs more time.

SLU didn't play its Frosh this year, a year when depth was a disaster, and a year when SLU was not NCAA or NIT bound.

SLU plays in a conference that for two seasons has been much worse than their previous C-USA.

Approx. 100 schools won 20 games this year.

[Kahok]

There is one way you know that yu have a good coach, and that is the number of times his name comes up for vacant coaching jobs. Has anybody heard Brad's name come up over the past few years for vacant jobs and there has been a few.

[3star_recruit]

"There is one way you know that yu have a good coach, and that is the number of times his name comes up for vacant coaching jobs."

Phil Martelli must not be a good coach then.

[Billikan]

How many of those 100 schools had our strength of schedule? I would bet that list would be the elite of college basketball. Sure there are teams in lesser conferences that play cupcakes and then accumulate 20 wins. We took on a lot of tough teams. We had some very good wins. We had some bad losses. But we had the highest RPI of any team not to go to postseason--much higher than a number of teams that got into the NIT. I personally think we got screwed by the NIT but that is a political selection process designed to get certain teams to New York.

As I have said many times, my problem with Romar is that he left abruptly which meant we lost his recruits and several of his players had to leave the team because of academic problems. He left us in a big hole that we are still trying to climb out of. If he had stayed it might have been a different story but Brad had to clean up the mess.

Brad's first two years were decent. We had some momentum and a nice and exciting home win against Iowa in the NIT. The real disaster came in the year when his two star seniors got hurt and the team never recovered. There are very few teams in the country that can suffer the loss of the two senior stars and survive and prosper so he had his only losing season. Last year was part of the building of a team. We played freshmen and they grew up on the court. We significantly overachieved in terms of the pundits predictions. When we were 16-10 everyone was excited. We had a bad ending of the season and people had a sour taste in their mouths.

This year, unfortunately, ended the same way. After the UMass win everyone was excited but we ran out of gas against a pressing team when we were playing the 3rd game in 3 days. Bad ending to a roller coaster season that had much more good than bad. The two losses in January and the last game really were painful but that does not mean that the team did not have a decent year and it does not mean that our underclassmen cannot get better.

We have two oral commitments from players that would appear to fit with Brad's system--tough defenders who are versatile. I personally believe that he will sign at least two others and I hope we get an inside player. What I keep saying is we need to give the man a chance and if he fails then we can talk about a new coach.

[moytoy12]

"What I keep saying is we need to give the man a chance and if he fails then we can talk about a new coach."

Five years. 3 of those years he had his own recruits...right? I know he has had his own for the last 2 years. No NCAA when the prior two coaches had NCAA years within their first 5 seasons (with the same facilities and they even had to put up with Woolard). I'm not saying he has been a failure, but he hasn't been successful either.

[courtside]

>How many of those 100 schools had our strength of schedule?

>I would bet that list would be the elite of college

>basketball. Sure there are teams in lesser conferences that

>play cupcakes and then accumulate 20 wins. We took on a lot

>of tough teams. We had some very good wins. We had some bad

>losses. But we had the highest RPI of any team not to go to

>postseason--much higher than a number of teams that got into

>the NIT. I personally think we got screwed by the NIT but

>that is a political selection process designed to get

>certain teams to New York.

>

>As I have said many times, my problem with Romar is that he

>left abruptly which meant we lost his recruits and several

>of his players had to leave the team because of academic

>problems. He left us in a big hole that we are still trying

>to climb out of. If he had stayed it might have been a

>different story but Brad had to clean up the mess.

>

>Brad's first two years were decent. We had some momentum and

>a nice and exciting home win against Iowa in the NIT. The

>real disaster came in the year when his two star seniors got

>hurt and the team never recovered. There are very few teams

>in the country that can suffer the loss of the two senior

>stars and survive and prosper so he had his only losing

>season. Last year was part of the building of a team. We

>played freshmen and they grew up on the court. We

>significantly overachieved in terms of the pundits

>predictions. When we were 16-10 everyone was excited. We had

>a bad ending of the season and people had a sour taste in

>their mouths.

>

>This year, unfortunately, ended the same way. After the

>UMass win everyone was excited but we ran out of gas against

>a pressing team when we were playing the 3rd game in 3 days.

>Bad ending to a roller coaster season that had much more

>good than bad. The two losses in January and the last game

>really were painful but that does not mean that the team did

>not have a decent year and it does not mean that our

>underclassmen cannot get better.

>

>We have two oral commitments from players that would appear

>to fit with Brad's system--tough defenders who are

>versatile. I personally believe that he will sign at least

>two others and I hope we get an inside player. What I keep

>saying is we need to give the man a chance and if he fails

>then we can talk about a new coach.

You still haven't listed the prestigious academic schools with "cake" majors.

You also didn't address that SLU has played in an easier conference the past two seasons.

To answer your question...regarding strength of schedule...the answer is over 50 schools with same wins as SLU or more with better strength of schedule than SLU this year.

I do not consider zero post-season, with mixed in NIT a success at SLU over a 5 year period.

And, Brad was on staff as assistant when Romar left.

As for direction, with SLU losing Vouyoukas, and no one to replace him, and with no point guards coming in so far...nor other low post help....I don't see how SLU will drastically be better next year. You didn't mention that newcomers didn't play this year. Now all of a sudden they will be counted on heavily next year as will Frosh. You do remember it took Lisch and Liddell half a season of struggles to contribute to SLU. And I was one of the few here who thought people were way too tough on them as Frosh.

Unlike others, I didn't advocate a change during the season.(look up my posts if you like) I don't get any joy out of a change(I am friendly with Brad) I don't see the program moving in the desired direction on or off of the floor, after 6 years, also taking into consideration the obstacles involved.(and there are plenty of those)

[Billikan]

My long post specifically commented on this years freshmen in detail. I agree that the jury is out on them. I really like the attitude of these young men in practice but time will tell.

How in the world can you say that what happened under Romar's time as head coach is Brad's fault or that he is responsible for "6 years"?

Romar left a mess that Brad had to clean up. Our recruiting was dead in the water. We lost players for academic reasons. Yet Brad scrambled and brought in some decent players.

Depending on how good our new recruits are--and we don't even know who will sign at this point--the status of the replacement of Ian is totally up in the air. You say it is a disaster. I say let's wait and see who we sign. If we got a healty Tom Frericks we would be fine. I also believe that Bryce can be a force defensively and if he works on getting stronger with the ball he can be a help on the offensive end. AK is an unknown at this point but big men take time to develop and he could be much better next year. Look at the big Pitt center who gets all the publicity. He never contributed until his junior year to any great degree.

If your math is right, and 50 schools with as stong a strength of schedule had 20 wins then that confirms what I thought. That would be in the top 20% of all D1 schools.

I am not saying we are where we want to be at this point. But building something takes time and patience. I see progress and potential. In any business, if you see progress and potential then you give the person who is running the business time to get to the high performance level that you desire. The interesting thing is that if Brad recruits well this year and has a good season and gets to the NCAA next year then his improving record and his graduation rate and his clean program would make him a hot young coach. I think it could happen. Why not give it a chance rather than start over?

[courtside]

You haven't addressed several of my points or questions and also I didn't say Brad was responsible for Romar's tenure. Please read my post again and respond. Thanks.