TheChosenOne

I don’t think a lot of folks are big fans of Chris May and candidly many of us question the money folks around the program who clearly do not pay attention to what happens at big time college athletic departments outside of SLU, but we also don’t want to scream about it every other week nor do we have a way of doing anything about it. Honestly, I see a lot of apathy around the program (team isn’t good and folks aren’t coming to the games), so you aren’t wrong, but maybe wait until the spring to bring this back up. Who is the development guy leaving?

While it is way too soon to judge this season (plus we have dealt with an unfortunate number of injuries/illnesses/etc.), I think with Schertz bringing in two starters who had played for him at Indiana State, many were hoping that the learning curve would be a bit less. With Majerus, he made it fairly obvious that he had zero concern with winning immediately instead focusing on building his program. Sadly, guys like Lisch and Liddell should have transferred to maximize their college careers, but obviously that was a different era. I think with the transfer portal, fans/boosters/athletic directors expect coaches to have success from day #1 which isn't really fair especially for a coach like Schertz who is also more of a program builder. I suppose with big money comes big expectations (talking about college basketball in general both with regards to what coaches are being paid and boosters are contributing with NIL being another expense that they are funding). Hopefully we get healthy and still have ourselves an exciting winter!

This season? I think Dotzler was lined up well for that beyond this season. He seemed to be competing for like the 7th man based on what I had seen, but obviously he was going to have a role. Losing him took away some of the lineups we could have tinkered with which I would have been interested in seeing and maybe could have resulted in him being in the starting lineup like you said. Would love to see Pikaar establish a role getting a stretch each half like you said allowing Robbie to be closer to 30 minutes.

Right. And good call on Pikaar, maybe with his length he can develop into a shot blocker as he matures physically. Ultimately though, we probably don’t have that on our roster for this winter.

I saw those guys when healthy in practice and was underwhelmed by both. While I think Dotzler could end up being a contributor for us down the line, I don’t see it with Casey. He certainly did not strike me as someone who would have a significant role this season. Dotzler I thought would be competing with a few other guys like Johnson and Hughes, so he certainly appeared to have more of a role for this season than Casey.

Especially when the Coaches For Racism showcase is on ABC.

@TheA_Bomb I’m not convinced about that at least long term. I think Indiana State filled their roster out in line with what I am saying (Conwell and Larry being more combo guard types and Kent possibly more of that PF type although he wasn’t blocking shots, so maybe a guy like Anya fits that) as does the modern offensive powerhouse Alabama. I am not proposing change the philosophy, but the traits of the guys on the roster at least this current roster which seems too limited in my opinion. You are certainly correct that the team this season is what it is and we have to win as you suggest, basically win 85-80.

I have said this to a number of folks. It seems like programs have become so obsessed with positionless basketball and having 5 guys on the court who can shoot from distance or in theory guard multiple positions. I get that especially in the NBA or if you are one of the elite programs in college basketball and are able to recruit a 5 who can play on the perimeter as well as having the length/strength/athleticism to do the other things. If not, just give me a 5 who can defend (protect the rim), rebound, move his feet to not be completely exposed on switches, and dunk when left open in the paint (the theory of a guy like Okoro honestly). Or the old school power forward who brings some of that (a guy like French, Conklin, Remekun, Foreman, Okoro as mentioned, etc.) if you have a 5 who can float on the perimeter offensively, but doesn't provide those other things (like Rob Loe who eventually did develop some of those aspects at least for the college level, but was paired with guys with those old school power forward traits). When Villanova was kind of early to shift to the positionless basketball model they always had a guy in the paint who could do those things (Ochefu the one year) and I think UConn always does as well. I feel like too many programs are devaluing some of those traits becoming obsessed with the idea of getting 3 points on one end vs. giving up 2 on the other end. I get that math, but I am not sure that is what we see play out. And while I am fine valuing the 3 point shot, give me guards who have versatility with more of the combo guard traits. We lack playmaking ability from our guards. It is so hard to guard when you have 3 wings who can all dribble, beat their man off of the bounce, pass, shoot, and finish in the lane if needed. I think of our Majerus teams with Jett, McCall, and Mitchell when obviously not all of those guys had all of those traits, but the idea of that guard quickness and skill even if not all guys can rip 3s and are a bit undersized. I am fine with the idea of recruiting length at the guard position, but don't devalue quickness and the other skills that tend to be tougher to develop. We see so many guards who are somewhat undersized dominate college basketball. So, I think your concern about a defensive presence in the lane is valid, but I would also add lack of playmakers at the wing positions. I think the assumption is having a 5 who can do those things alleviates the need, but I am not sold on that.

A lot of fair commentary, but this is one that I am currently most struck by. While I was getting frustrated with folks saying well, our record is what I figured was most likely going into the season completely ignoring what was happening on the court beyond a W or L and the reality that we are currently just not a good team. I was also frustrated by the doom and gloom folks as it is also rather easy to understand the obvious causes of that with injuries being #1, guys playing for a new coach/system, and a group playing together for the first time. My concern is that we are seeing so little of the bench and any progression a month in. I realize that some of our primary depth pieces are guys who are injured or battling injuries, so that would be ignorant to ignore. But, when you are getting shelled by USF, why is Jimerson playing 39 minutes and Avila 36? I am not a doctor, but watching Avila, is this him at 100%? I suppose I would be curious to know whether we brought him back too soon or might have benefited from easing him in more (he has gone 30/33/38/36 minutes since his return). Like you said, we are running our core into the ground and not seeing progression from game to game. Rambling way of saying that I expected there to be growing pains and then injuries threw a wrench in things, but I am starting to wonder the likelihood of this team getting near full health and coming together as a team. It is December 6th, so I probably need to relax, but the past week+ has been so disappointing.

For those of us watching at home, if things don’t turn, could one of the Billiken fans at the game get smashed and join the band maybe playing some cowbell? I find myself thinking if we can just limit the unforced TOs we could make another run, but maybe I’m fooling myself.

Yeah, that wasn’t the case with Lisch and Liddell. They were nationally regarded talents and known starters from day #1. Similar to a guy like Kwamain. Willie is probably the most gifted physically I remember though (if we are going the last 20 years), guys like that don’t end up at SLU.

Knees over toes exercises?

I like the idea that a high level college athlete only understands what is important and gets it if they are a Billiken!

What do you mean by this? Is this related to Chaifetz?

One of the other things folks on this board have noted and echoed by Coach Schertz is that the truly elite programs are likely going to continue to target transfers. Sure, they will still be involved with the one and done type prep superstars, but beyond that they are more likely to target transfers who have played at the college level and are more of a known commodity over prep recruits down the rankings. Schertz has identified that as the current market inefficiency, so expect to see us heavily involved in prep recruiting. Plus, it seems clear that Schertz has a system and he wants to get guys in the program to learn that system and develop over their career vs. constantly chasing the hottest transfers. As @thetorch laid out above, Schertz has a compelling sell for prep recruits especially when you layer on the x's and o's and development pitch. Obviously meeting our expectations this winter goes a long way in helping to strengthen that pitch! Ok, today is the day that I find myself pumped for the season, perfect timing!

It was certainly considered a strong draft class at the time and it looks to have held up pretty well with Tatum being the star of the class.

Not particularly, it wouldn't be constructive. I certainly hope to see St. Louis turnaround the downward trend we have been on, so I hope you and your friend are right. I suppose you get to a point where there is nowhere to go but up and we are likely near that.

I think many would certainly dispute your takeaways, but congrats to your friend on his retirement nonetheless.

@ARon, that’s very true. While not the original plan, it’s basically a $30 million bar at this point haha. Maybe someone will be able to buy it "cheap" and still incorporate some aspects of the original plan? I just can’t imagine the revenue is remotely close in its current functionality to cover what I assume to be significant expenses for such a huge facility. I remember on the front end my friend who is contractor saying this would be a massive boondoggle and he is being proven right. Basically the original project and winning bid were illogical. It’s a shame that this city has some of the developers that it has.

It is a neat place, but I remember walking out struggling with it conceptually. You spent all of that money to rehab the facility and you made it essentially a bar and small food court? Again, cool place, but the expenses have to be absurd.

@Aquinaswhat are you saying the $700 million represents for Florida?

Dang! I feel like we need to get you all Billiken blue blazers to honor your support as fans! Some OGs no doubt, impressive!

It is quite odd and they argue so vehemently. God forbid we question why a school like SLU can’t outclass the facilities of the local high schools in all sports. And I’m one who really doesn’t care about college sports beyond football and basketball. It just seems odd that questioning facilities that meet no standard is some aggressive take.

Congratulations! Hope she has a great experience at SLU!

Is that some remix of slob on my knob in our fearless leaders post (and thanks for posting for those of us who are not there)? I remember when we were told Eminem Lose Yourself was too much for the Billiken crowd haha.