Scottrade and SLU ticket people are hideous

[brianstl]

8 of the last 14 years SLU has a better average attendance than that team down I-70 that has that much lager fan base. Some years we averaged more than 5,000 more a game than that team. We had better attendance last year than them. In that time period we have never averaged less than well over 8,000 a game. I don't know what you mean by disappointing turnout. Even last year we finished in the top 50 in the country with 9,325 (not bad for a team coming off of a disaster of a season).

I think the crowds appear smaller to you cause we play in a building too big for college basketball.

[Billinikens]

>At some point, you have to point the finger not at the

>students, but at the scheduling department who will give

>into any demand that an ACC or SEC school wants. If we want

>to be a top flight program (maybe we will with this new

>arena), we can't be the whipping boy of the larger

>confrences, scheduling high profile non-conference game at

>the whim of the bigger, more prominant school.

The depth of your ignorance echoes your every post. I cannot believe you're still trying to push this argument. It is not easy to get UNC on the schedule, therefore, SLU will play them anytime they can get them to sign on the dotted line. The only reason they're signing up to play us is because Roy does a home game for all his kids if he can possibly manage it, he's just bring Tyler home for a game. The two schools met up, found a date that worked for each (probably near the holidays intentionally for Tyler's sake), and put it in the books. Kudos to SLU for getting the game, it could easily have been Mizzou instead. If we didn't "give in", the game would not have happened at all.

And I'm not sure we did "give in" to anything anyway. I have been to almost every game the last 6+ years and was a member of Blue Crew. However, I do not kid myself into thinking that the students at SLU are menacing enough that Roy would resist playing us when school was in session. They play in much more imposing atmospheres throughout their season. Please give it a rest.

[RealisticBilliken]

Depth of my ignorance. Check out who else "managed" to get UNC on the schedule this year:

Sacred Heart

Gardner Webb

High Point

UNC-Ashville

Florida Atlantic

Penn

It is quite sad you have to resort to name calling "Billiniken" itstead of actually debating the topic and recognizing that my points are well thought out and presented with facts. We should just call you the Hilary Clinton of the board.

And my point here is that it obviously can't be that hard to schedule UNC seeing the other teams on the schedule.

[Quickdraw]

It's all too complex. Back in the 70's we had the system down. You showed up at Kiel with your ID--they let you in. If you didn't have your ID, you flashed your driver's license--they let you in. If you had no license, you waved your hand--they let you in. This ticket thing is most inefficient.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I would be interested to see which of those are home and home...I would bet UNC played close to 70K for those games. Are any of those even home games?

I highly doubt SLU said, let's get this game when the students are gone. And I also doubt that was all part of UNC's plan either. We have a hard time scheduling since we don't own the building and scheduling is a two way street. Far be it from me to stick up for the AD as I have a lot of problems with the way they operate. But I think you're bitching just for the hell of it.

[brianstl]

Sacred Heart

Gardner Webb

High Point

UNC-Ashville

Florida Atlantic

All of the above are buy games for UNC that do not require a return visit from the Tarheels. UNC will not being playing these teams on the road.

The Penn return game required that game be moved from Penn's on campus home court and played at the Wachovia Center. UNC wouldn't agree to the series unless that happened.

UNC plays two non-conference away games this year, SLU and Arizona. That is the norm for them. You really can't dictate any conditions to them, in fact they are the ones who dictate the conditions. So yes, you are ignorant when it comes to this issue.

[TheBand]

When you list those schools, you should also point out that ALL of them are HOME games for UNC. Sure, these schools all get to play UNC ONCE at the DeanDome. SLU has a HOME AND HOME with Carolina.

Would you like to go on the road for your entire non conference schedule? If you did, you could schedule every top ten team you wanted i bet.

(an aside, SLU is the only road game UNC plays before the middle of Janruary).

When you are a "big dog" you get those types of schedules.

[RealisticBilliken]

Well excuse me for not knowing the financial arrangement between Penn and UNC for their home and home series. And to call me ignorant for not knowing that Penn moved the game to Wachovia is pretty stupid on your part.

You guys who are contesting me on this issue are looking at it with the nose to the ground. Why don't you retreat back to a more broad perspective. SLU schedules one big game a year, sometimes at home, sometimes on the road. If you want students in the stadium, and you go through all the trouble of arranging a home and home series with a UNC type team, you darn well better get that home game when students are there. That is my point - who gives a crap about Penn moving its home game a different site anyway?

[brianstl]

If you are going to ***** about when the game is scheduled, then you should know why it was scheduled when it was. When you don't you are ignorant about that topic.

ignorant [ig-ner-uhnt]

–adjective 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.

3. uninformed; unaware.

4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

It is not a rip on you as a person.

[slufanskip]

so why would UNC change for us?

You are so realistic that you are unrealistic. Get out in the real world.

I can see you are a normal in our society, always someone else's fault. If a student doesn't go ... it's the students fault. If they can't put out some effort, personally I couldn't care less. Tell em to stay home.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of Slu72's bid to join the Billiken Blue Kool Aid Club

[billiken_roy]

while the athletic dept can do more to assist students getting to the game, i do not agree with putting all the blame on the athletic dept. why wouldnt a student body have a natural enthusiasm for their own school? when i was in college i had to find my own way to the checkerdome for games and no one was encouraging me to go in any way shape or form. i just wanted to be there to support my team. and i was a student durning ekker time. if there was ever a reason to be apathetic ekker was it.

if a student really cared about that game, they would find a way. i believe steve has made special trips back and forth from wash dc for games. last year on semester break i believe steve went back to dc to see the billikens and george washington.

dont make excuses. students need to take responsibility as well. especially for a huge game like that. you are totally off base that the athletic dept needs to cater to the student body. dont forget, you get free tickets or at worst bought a season ticket for $25. that alone should be your incentive. your attitude is sickening.

[billiken_roy]

you are indeed showing your ignorance. every one of the games you list are home games for north carolina.

the trick is getting a game away from chapel hill. as skip tells you below, we only got that opportunity because of hansborough likely. unc doesnt schedule just anyone on the road unless unc deems them an equal program. if you havent figured that out, you have a problem with understanding the politics of divison one college basketball apparently.

[RealisticBilliken]

I am sorry but did I hear you correctly saying the "Athletic Department shouldn't cater to the student body"? Lets think about this for a second. If it wasn't for the student body, there wouldn't be an Athletic Department! The purpose of the department is to work for students who drop over $100,000 on tuition each year. Do not even start saying the AD doesn't work for students because that is their goal (or at least it should be).

And don't lump me in with the rest of the students. I will be at the game, just like every other game over the past 4.5 years, I am just frustrated with the lack of any new iniatives to draw students to the games and the failures I have experienced while paying my $100,000 in tution to the school. The least you could expect from the Athletic Department - who is supposed to work for the students - is to give them a game to cheer for. The typical SLU student is NOT going to drive the 5 hours from Chicago, Cincy, Cleveland, or KC to come to this game, especially right before Christmas. Its not my attitude that is sickening, its our scheduling that is sickening.

I am personally very pissed that each and every year, SLU schedules all its home games over Christmas break and all the road games while students are present. And by the time the conference schedule rolls around, we have slipped back into mediocrity, once again, driving students away.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I disagree with that. While I guess students may benefit in multiple ways from the school's athletic department, I believe the purpose of the department is to serve the university and its constituencies, which include the community. Alumni and business interests make up more of a school's following than the students. Otherwise, wouldn't the students have a majority of the seats? Frankly, I think that big-time college athletics is more for people like me (and I'm not even a SLU alumnus -- I'm an UMSL alumnus) than it is for students actually enrolled in school. I've been following the program closely for over 17 years and will most likely continue to do so for the rest of my life, but many, if not most, of the students follow the program closely only while they're enrolled.

[bonwich]

...each year, you have bigger problems than getting your tickets easily.

In general, I agree with you (and will have to disagree with B-Roy) that -- until which time we have a steady student-section presence -- the athletic department should be bending over backwards to get students to the game. It's the department's job, and certainly not the students', to create the basketball-going tradition that is currently non-existent.

But I think if you surveyed a random sampling of D-1 schools, you'd see that SLU is no better and no worse at scheduling games that coincide with whether the students are around.

[brianstl]

I have got to agree with RB that AD first goal should be to serve the students. It is not a pro team. It's main goal should be to enhance the college experience. That said are they supposed to turn down a game with UNC? You have to take that game whenever you can get it.

If you want a program that should put the ticket buyers first go try to get an NBA team here or find a minor league team to support. If you want a program that puts big time donors first go find an SEC team to support.

A college program's top interest should be in this order: the students, the alumni, and the people involved in the university (professors, employees, priest, etc.).

[Also Receiving Votes]

Amen, buddy.

[tseugnekillib]

Joe, you stated...."It's the department's job, and certainly not the students', to create the basketball-going tradition that is currently non-existent".

Just curious.....who is responsible for the great Cardinal tradition?

The owners in the 40's, Mr. Busch, A-B, Bill DeWitt? Or was it the long line of great players and loyal fans from around the Midwest....or was it a combination of all three?

Who was responsible for the Big Red tradition in the Hart, Dierdorf, Jackie Smith, Mel Gray, etc. years. Was it Bill Bidwell, or more so the players and the Midwest pro-football fans?

Who was responsible for the exciting Blues hockey tradition of the Brett Hull era....whichever owner it was at that time? Or was it Hull, Oates, Shanny, Sutter, Bernie F.,etc., along with the loyal hockey fans in metro St. Louis?

I'm surprised that you see the students having a zero, or a near zero role, ("and certainly not the students") in establishing a Billiken tradition. imo, college students play a significant role in any school tradition.