Recruits List

[slu72]

Anyone, with some credibility, have any idea what our offered and available list looks like today? I guess Pullen would still be on it as he has not made a final decision. But the only other player I can think of would be Powell. Speaking of which, why hasn't he accepted Vtime? You vowed he would the minute the offer was on the table.

[cheeseman]

Add Swansey to it - not sure of the spelling.

[slu72]

that would make a grand total of 3? And Pullen highly unlikely, for a real list of 2? Jeez, what the hell has this staff been up to for the last 4 months?

[tseugnekillib]

only a fool would think that SLU only has 3 prospects on their current list!

[cheeseman]

72 - I did not mean that they only had 2 kids - all I told was the name of another kid that I knew who was coming in for a visit. Heck, there might be 6 other kids being recruited - I just don't know who they are.

[DoctorB]

Chicago Tribune reports Pullen committed verbally to K State on Saturday.

[Nate Latsch]

It looks like SLU went after some talented kids (like Pullen and Leuer) and couldn't get them.

I hope this doesn't mean another lost recruiting year.

- Nate

[billiken_roy]

nate latsch said,

"I hope this doesn't mean another lost recruiting year."

another? nate, what do you mean? what year did the billikens not get the needed recruits to improve? maybe we need to know your definition of "lost".

[Hardball]

I will add Kansas State to the list.

Duke

Kentucky

North Carolina

Indiana

Purdue

SIU

Miami of Ohio

Louisville

Iowa

Holy Cross

Kansas State

It will be interesting on how the Kool-aid drinkers will wash another missed opportunity. I am sure we will start to read the bashing of Pullen as not being able to handle the ball, selfish player, can't play defense or attacking his character.

It is almost laughable the amount of excuses these stay the course blue slurpy drinkers can come up with.

[billfan4life]

you can also add Florida since Tyus is going there

[tseugnekillib]

Hardball (aka PHOG), when you go after talented players like Pullen there is always going to be significant recruiting competition....you win a few and you lose alot.....so then you go to the next available players!

[cheeseman]

I am really confused - some say we have to go after higher ranked players, others say we need to go after players we know we can get who can play within our system, and still others say offer everybody and tell them whoever accepts first gets the schollie. I understand the merits of each position but what I don't get is the somewhat contridictory comments made by all three camps. I am sorry we did not get Pullen or Leuer but we are not going to get everybody we go after. An old fishing adage is if you are not getting hung up you are not were the fish are comes to mind. If Brad does not fish for the higher ranked recruits then he will never catch one but when he does this it means he will get hung up more often than not - in other words, not get the kid. As far as this being another wasted recruiting season - once again, too early to tell. We really do not know who else Brad has on his radar screen so until the Nov. signing period is over, we can not deem this recruiting class as a success or failure yet. Like I said before, I am as anxious as the next person about out it but wringing my hands now will not have any impact so all I and the rest of us can do is be patient and let the hand play out.

I do think Nate's concern is valid just a little premature now. Roy, lets be honest about past recruiting classes - we have not filled all of our schollies for the last 3 periods nor have we had a plethora of early committments so it is true that we have had recruiting classes that have not been roaring successes as a whole even though we have landed a player or two in them nor can we continue to expect that Brad will find players at the last minute such as Obie, AK and HD all the time - it just is not in the odds. We do need to start using our schollies in the Fall period and getting good players.

[tseugnekillib]

cheeese said, "we do need to start using our schollies in the Fall period and getting good players"

I can agree with your last three words...."getting (more) good players". However, it makes absolutely no difference to me WHEN we get the "good" player as long as we get them. Sign them in November, April, May, June, July or August.....just balance the roster with more good players.

[cheeseman]

Tbill - while technically you are correct - it does not matter when you sign the recruit - it does matter that you are always playing catch up and can never be out front with the next recruiting class. If Brad continues to get only 1 or 2 or none each Fall, he will eventually end up failing. He must sign good players and fill or mostly fill all of his schollies in the Fall for the long term health of this program.

[tseugnekillib]

win and losses will determine Coach Soderberg's fate, not September comittments.

btw, SLU has done a mountain of work already on the 2008 recruiting class.

[Majerus Magic]

I agree with you. I am not so worried about the 07 class as I am w/ the 2008 class. I think that is gonna be the true testament to Brad. They are all local players.

[Nate Latsch]

I consider this year's freshman class a missed opportunity to improve the team after pulling in a great recruiting class with Kevin Lisch and Tommie Liddell.

I think the three kids SLU brought in will all contribute at some point in their careers, but right now I don't see any of them as the missing piece on a team that figures to be one of the best the Billikens has had in several years. Horace Dixon or Adam Knollmeyer might be in the mix at the power forward spot this year, but whichever of those two isn't getting minutes will probably join Dustin Maguire on the end of the bench.

I think this year's team could be very good, but I don't think the coaching staff did a good job of making it better through recruiting. They basically brought in three guys who might be better fits playing in the Missouri Valley Conference, which are the kind of players who are regularly regarded as not being able to play at a school like SLU. Down the line all three could contribute, but I think the staff lost the momentum they gained with Lisch and Liddell.

So far this year it looks like the Billikens have gone after some good players, but missed on those kids after bigger schools came along. I don't have a problem with that, as long as you have other kids on your recruiting board that you are still going after. There isn't much locally, but one of the top guys (Josh Harrellson) has already committed somewhere else.

Right now, this looks like one of those recruiting classes that gets thrown together late in the process — like last year's. If that's the case, you're again running the risk of not improving your team as much as you could have with building around two cornerstone players (Lisch and Liddell) and with the momentum of a new building finally in sight.

SLU has done a good job getting on the Class of 2008 and Class of 2009 guys early, but if the Billikens miss on most of those players what are they going to be left with? Kramer Soderberg will be a Billiken, but the recruitment of Scott Suggs, John Brandenberg, Jared Swopshire and Tyler Griffey could be a make-or-break situation for SLU.

How will the fans/administration feel if all of those guys choose to play their college basketball in the ACC or SEC? Will people expect those kids to leave the St. Louis area for the greener pastures of college basketball hotbeds ... or will people be mad that the Billikens have a beautiful shiny new arena and the same mediocre program while some of the best local prospects in years are flying out of St. Louis to make NCAA tournament runs somewhere else?

This program has a lot of potential — the potential to establish itself as an NCAA tournament team on a year-to-year basis or the potential to continue to be the fourth-best program (Illinois, Missouri, Southern Illinois) in a couple hundred mile area.

- Nate

[cheeseman]

Tbill - unfortunately, you are missing the point - if you do not recruit well then it will ultimately equate to bad records. So to completely label the Fall signing period as not important is just fool hardy.

Nate, I do agree with most of what you said especially the point about missing opportunities - a solid recruiting class in 2007 can help make the 2008/9 classes and a poor recruiting class in 2007 can simply help the kids in 2008/9 not want to come.

[GOSLU68]

While I really think it is a great reward for Phillip Hunt or Wendell Bennett to get a senior scholarship; part of me says too many years

we have not had a strong enough bench and not enough players willing to fight for a starter spot; some guys even IV seem to wait their turn to be starters when the senior starters graduate; okay, I'll say Blake

Ahearne, again. Scott Highmark, Kevin Lisch, even any Leuchtefeld, or Luke Meyer have so much heart that they should be scholarship players and will push to start; why can't we find another Erwin Claggett who is too small but fast and can shoot and has so much heart two coach's

sons couldn't keep him out of the game? Romar and Spoonhauer told the players it was okay to block out, bodycheeck, hand check, take a charge. They may not have been better than Soderberg but they were tough and instilled toughness in the teams. Slu needs more than polite players. We need every year to have all of our scholarships used by more than walk ons...SLU should be better. Illinois may be our only real competition if we dominate a 160 mile radius.

[tseugnekillib]

cheese.....where did I say (1) it was not important to recruit well??? and (2)....where did I say the Fall signing period was not important???

Please answer where I made those statements.

I continue to say that you need to sign good players every year, but it makes me no difference if those good players are signed in November, April, May, June, July or August. (see post #12 above and my previous posts for my consistent position.) Some fans, particularly impatient fans, need the early commitments regardless of the player quality.

[3star_recruit]

>I think the three kids SLU brought in will all contribute at

>some point in their careers, but right now I don't see any

>of them as the missing piece on a team that figures to be

>one of the best the Billikens has had in several years.

A freshman who is the missing piece on a good basketball team is the exception, not the norm. Teams largely improve because the players already on it improve.

>Horace Dixon or Adam Knollmeyer might be in the mix at the

>power forward spot this year, but whichever of those two

>isn't getting minutes will probably join Dustin Maguire on

>the end of the bench.

If you have 12 guys on scholarship and you play 9 guys then there are going to be people on the bench. Most of the guys riding pine throughout Division 1 are freshmen. If you've got freshmen playing ahead of upperclassmen on a regular basis, either you're losing players to the NBA or something's screwed up with your talent evaluation.

>I think this year's team could be very good, but I don't

>think the coaching staff did a good job of making it better

>through recruiting. They basically brought in three guys who

>might be better fits playing in the Missouri Valley

>Conference, which are the kind of players who are regularly

>regarded as not being able to play at a school like SLU.

All MVC teams are not created equal. There is no shame in having players on the roster who would fit in at a top 50 program like Creighton -- we are aspiring to be a top 50 program, in fact. Now if we're recruiting guys who actually belong at Evansville, then we've got serious problems.

>

>So far this year it looks like the Billikens have gone after

>some good players, but missed on those kids after bigger

>schools came along. I don't have a problem with that, as

>long as you have other kids on your recruiting board that

>you are still going after.

All programs have multiple kids on their recruiting board. But when you're this close to the fall signing period and your primary target commits elsewhere, any fallback player that is comparable in talent is likely to have committed elsewhere as well. So do you sign a 2 star Plan C guy in the fall just for the sake of having an early commitment? Or do you wait for the spring in hopes that one of those 2 star players blossoms into a 3 star or a prep schooler/juco becomes available?

>Right now, this looks like one of those recruiting classes

>that gets thrown together late in the process — like last

>year's. If that's the case, you're again running the risk of

>not improving your team as much as you could have with

>building around two cornerstone players (Lisch and Liddell)

>and with the momentum of a new building finally in sight.

You need visibility to attract strong talent outside your local recruiting area, whether it be making the Dance or by hiring a high profile coach. We don't have the latter so we're going to have to accomplish the former with the players we have, just like Altman has done at Creighton. After winning for years with under-recruited local kids, Altman has gained the visibility necessary to sign talented kids outside a 100 mile radius.

>SLU has done a good job getting on the Class of 2008 and

>Class of 2009 guys early, but if the Billikens miss on most

>of those players what are they going to be left with?

I think a lot depends on whether we make the Dance this year and become more visible to recruits outside the St. Louis area. There is enough depth in the Missouri/Illinois 2008 class that even a Plan C recruit may be a 3 star guy.

[cheeseman]

Tbill - your previous post #14 in this thread "wins and losses will determine Soderberg's fate not Sept. signings". Seems pretty clear that you do not see the Fall recruiting period as that important.

[billiken_roy]

nate's response demonstrates what is wrong with our coaching staff playing their cards so close to the vest. nate makes assumptions because none of us no who they are really pursuing and then the whole fandom goes into a panic because a noted area sports writer assumes

"this looks like one of those recruiting classes that gets thrown together late in the process"

the same sportswriter already is theorizing about next year's class,

" but if the Billikens miss on most of those players what are they going to be left with? "

personally, i think adam knollmeyer and horace dixon are exactly what the team needed or as nate stated, " the missing piece ".

nate contradicts himself by claiming they missed out and then in the next breath states,

"on a team that figures to be one of the best the Billikens has had in several years. "

a team that figures to be one of the best the billikens have had in several years doesnt necessarily need or even want a high profile player coming in that changes the chemistry or configuration of the team.

this team needed a defensive and rebounding minded power forward. if knollmeyer or dixon or obi or even the combination of the three turn into that component it was indeed a successful recruitiment year.

now if all three average single digit minutes played and we see luke meyer playing most of the minutes at power forward, then nate your original statement is true. we'll just have to revisit in the spring and see how right (or wrong) you are. if they as a group are averaging 35 minutes, and the billikens are indeed an improved team knocking on the ncaa door, i hope you will come back and tell us how wrong you were.

[billiken_roy]

cheese, i think tsueg's point is that it is just as important to be right as it is to get commits first.

the one thing i dont understand with the complaints about coach soderberg's recruiting is if he is so bad at recruiting, why is it that this is the most talented team that saint louis has had in a long time? it appears talentwise it compares to the hughes team, the claggett highmark teams and the bonner teams.

one would think if he is a horrible no talent judging recruiter, we wouldnt be in the position we are talking about contending for the conference championship and getting ncaa bids.

[Majerus Magic]

There is no way that Luke ends up at the pf spot again. He has gained 15 pounds of muscle though over the summer. He is looking good.