Who says it can't be done......

[Hardball]

Purdue's Painter beating the recruiting odds

August 8, 2006

Move over Roy Williams and Lute Olson.

Every great coach out there has some new competition. The next great recruiting hotshot is emerging from a basketball-crazed state loaded with talent.

Purdue coach Matt Painter reeled in four top-100 prospects from the class of 2007 in the last four weeks, all of which hail from Indiana.

In the recruiting world, this is the equivalent of a miracle.

Purdue is in the middle of one of the worst stretches in school history. The Boilermakers have won 16 games in the last two seasons. Just six of those have come against Big Ten teams.

Painter's first season in West Lafayette was a disaster. There were losses to Evansville and Loyola-Chicago, an 0-2 record versus Northwestern and a pair of double-digit losses to Indiana.

Still, Painter and his staff have Indiana's top players convinced that Purdue is the place to be.

That feeling may spread outside the Hoosier state soon. Painter and assistant coach Cuonzo Martin, a key player during Purdue's glory days under Gene Keady in the mid-1990s, have put together a class around which they can build their program.

Versatile guard E'Twaun Moore, who sits at No. 37 in Rivals.com's rankings, is a future star that can carry a team. At 6-foot-3, Moore has the size and speed to play a number of positions. He's a big-time scorer and one of the best defenders in the class.

Soon after Moore committed, his AAU teammates, 6-8 small forwards Robbie Hummel (No. 62) and Scott Martin (No. 63), did the same. Hummel and Martin -- who play together at Valparaiso High -- are never going to be All-Americans, but they could both be great sidekicks. Both can handle the ball on the wing, shoot the mid-range jumper and have a good feel for the game.

Six-foot-10 center JaJuan Johnson (No. 55) will be the big, defensive presence in the middle that every coach craves. Johnson is raw, but he is a great shot blocker with lots of upside.

Collecting that foursome didn't come without some luck. Indiana's coaching switch and the NCAA sanctions placed on new coach Kelvin Sampson certainly helped (although Martin said he never seriously considered Indiana).

But don't mistake this as the work of a one-year wonder. Everybody in the Big Ten wanted Moore. So did Georgia Tech's Paul Hewitt and Tennessee's Bruce Pearl, two of the hottest coaches on the recruiting trail. Interest in Martin and Hummel began to soar this summer, and they could have held out for more offers.

Like those guys, I don't need to hold out for another season to realize that Painter is going to turn Purdue into a contender in the Big Ten again. You don't put together one of the nation's top recruiting classes at a program coming off back-to-back losing seasons without having something special. Just ask the last few coaches who went up against Painter in head-to-head recruiting battles.

In the aftermath of the Stemler recruitment many posters scoffed at the notion that St. Louis University supporters should expect any Top 100 recruits. This article illustrates that Top 100 recruits are attainable and do not just go to the Duke's, Kansas's and Kentucky's of college basketball. Some say SLU should not expect to get any Top 100 recruits while other schools get four. IMO it all starts with the HC and his ability to convince recruits why his school is the best. Some coaches are obviously better than others at painting a successful picture.

A couple of points in the article are relevent to our situation at SLU. First, Painter is in only his second year and is already producing BIG recruiting results. Secondly, Purdue like St. Louis University is not the states flagship University. Yet Painter is winning going head to head with his States giants. Can anyone really imagine the excitment that could be generated for the Billikens if we started to beat out Missouri for Top 100 recruits. Purdue has set their expectations high and it appears they are about to be rewarded bigtime.

Do I dare ask the question who would you rather have Painter or BS?

[brianstl]

First off, Painter wasn't even on the radar for the job or any job, when Brad was hired. Now if you think Weber should have got the job, maybe. He was a canidate and supposedly he was intrested. The fear was that he would do the same thing Romar had just done. Leave for his former school as soon as the job became open. The Unversity wanted some who they felt wanted to stay for awhile.

[VTIME]

i too learned of this weeks ago. I came across this info when someone on mosports.com posted that the new post summer rivals rankings were out and Suggs and Brandenburg were both top 100. I saw that Purdue had 4 top 100 guys. I didnt post it because I had just posted the thread about Illinois State outrecruiting Brad and I'm sure that a thread about Purdue having 4 top 100 guys would be twisted into me somehow dogging coach Soderberg and his recruiting efforts.

[brianstl]

V, only in your twisted brain is IL state out recruiting Brad.

[Billikan]

Painter has done a nice job this year--he has two things that are big with recruits in Indiana--lot's of playing time because the team is absolutely terrible and an opportunity to play in the Big 10 yet stay in state and play in front of friends and family. I give him credit for doing a nice job but it is absolutely ridiculous to compare his situation with SLU. Your continued bashing of Brad is really stale old news.

[StLouBlue]

>>

>In the aftermath of the Stemler recruitment many posters

>scoffed at the notion that St. Louis University supporters

>should expect any Top 100 recruits. This article illustrates

>that Top 100 recruits are attainable and do not just go to

>the Duke's, Kansas's and Kentucky's of college basketball.

>Some say SLU should not expect to get any Top 100 recruits

>while other schools get four. IMO it all starts with the HC

>and his ability to convince recruits why his school is the

>best. Some coaches are obviously better than others at

>painting a successful picture.

>

>A couple of points in the article are relevent to our

>situation at SLU. First, Painter is in only his second year

>and is already producing BIG recruiting results. Secondly,

>Purdue like St. Louis University is not the states flagship

>University. Yet Painter is winning going head to head with

>his States giants. Can anyone really imagine the excitment

>that could be generated for the Billikens if we started to

>beat out Missouri for Top 100 recruits. Purdue has set their

>expectations high and it appears they are about to be

>rewarded bigtime.

>

>Do I dare ask the question who would you rather have Painter

>or BS?

I think there are a couple of points that should be made. First, I don't think anyone said that SLU should never expect a top 150 recruit. I think it is realistic to expect one every 2-3 years once the program shows enough to land them. According to the Rivals top 150, there are 3 players that we have talked about that SLU has been recruiting, Leuer #72 and Goode #97 do not list SLU among their schools. Kenton Walker #133 lists SLU along with others.

Second is the location of these top 150 players. Indiana has 9 kids on that list. Counting IN and their border states it totals 31 kids. Missouri has 1 kid on the list and counting MO and its border states there are 13 kids. Of these 13, 7 are from IL and 2 TN. The point I am making is that Purdue is in the middle of a recruiting hotbed for basketball talent, SLU is not. I think both schools are schools that primarily recruit in their region and don't do a whole lot of national recruiting.

Third, Purdue has a much richer basketball tradition than SLU as well as playing in a BCS conference. Purdue had a bad year last year and still averaged over 10k per home game. While Purdue might not be one of the giants, they are a lot closer to "giant" status than SLU.

I am willing to give Soderberg his time to recruit and build this program. We had a hot young coach here already that struggled and couldn't get us over the hump already in Romar, I doubt Painter could do much better in only 4-5 years on the job at SLU.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

Romar wasn't here long enough to even see any of his kids graduate, so it is tough to say much about his time here. Many would say he had the program headed in the right direction if he would have stayed around. He just did not have the time to build the program, which at a school like SLU is needed. Thats why Brad would seem to be a good fit, he seems like he wants to make St. Louis his home. It is much more common to see a coach come in and have success relatively quickly when it is at a schol that is in one of the BSC conferences. Every kid wants to play for the biggest and the best. Although Purdue has been down of late, they are still in the Big10 and that puts them at a level above a school like SLU. SLU plays in the A-10, is not located in a basketball hotbed, and does not have a strong tradition of success. At a school like SLU we need to build the program by first having some quality seasons and then we can try to compete with the BSC schools for recruits. Last season was a step in the right direction, now we need to take the next step and thats making the tournament. Kevin and Tommie being from the area and coming to SLU was huge, they should be able to put our program on the map and from there we can shoot higher.

[billiken_roy]

plus, let's not forget hardball, it is so much easier recruiting to slu than purdue. you really nailed this one.

[knight_rider]

To compare a BCS school to SLU is utterly ridiculous. Resources, resources, resources! I'll bet Painter and his staff don't have to pay their own cell phone bills. I am sure Purdue's President understands the importance of a cell phone for a coach in the recruiting process, unlike the higher-ups here. It would be much easier to compare apples to oranges!

[slu72]

Purdue may have been down the last two years, but they've been up a lot longer than that. Much easier to recruit there than here. SLU's hope to improve our recruiting is winning games. I think Romar's an excellent recruiter, possibly one of the nation's best, but he couldn't do it here. Why...none of the 3 and 4 star guys knew who the hell we were.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

That sums it up perfectly slu72. While at SLU Romar was unable to land any real big time recruits. He goes to Washington and he starts landing gem after gem, same guy different school. Romar has to be considered one of the top five or six recruiters in the country right now and he found recruitng nationally at SLU in a short amount of time is tough to do. Winning games is the key and until we make the NCAA tournament the only highly touted recruits SLU will have a chance with are those from the area. Lets not throw Brad into fire because a young coach at Purdue, a Big10 program with a Big10 budget and in a basketball rich area, is landing some top recruits.

[Hardball]

Didn't really think any of the Kool-aid drinkers would answer the Painter BS question. As ususal the apologists continue to claim we are not Indiana,Duke or Kentucky apparantly now we are not even Purdue. Pretty soon the blue drinkers will be running out of D1 schools. The suggestion that Purdue is in the Big Ten is a smokescreen position. If this is your position then I guess SLU should expect Northwestern to outrecruit us as well. I can't really understand why SLU with a Big Ten pedigree coach of 5+ years can't be at least as good or better than Purdue. I guess it is all about expecations and mine seem to be higher than most on the board.

When Thad Motta was at Xavier he outrecruited and outplayed Purdue. Xavier is in the A10, right? How did he do it? Did the Xavier supporters lay down and cower to the whole Big Ten Argument like the Kool-Aid SLU faithful? The whole point of this article is that it does not take 5+ years to build a program and other non-Elite basketball schools get Top 100 recruits. Some even get four in a year. SLU should expect the same.

The next round of blue juice is on me!

[3star_recruit]

"When Thad Motta was at Xavier he outrecruited and outplayed Purdue. Xavier is in the A10, right? How did he do it?"

Matta built on the solid 21-22 win per season foundation laid by Pete Gillen and Skip Prosser. Brad is building on the quicksand laid by Romar and a disinterested Charlie Spoonhour. In many ways he's in the same position that Dana Altman was in at Creighton after 4 years. If we could experience the success that Altman's program has after the growing pains, I would be ecstatic.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

I don't think anyone is saying that SLU should bow down to a program like Purdue or a program just because they are in one of the major conferences, but we have to be realistic. If a player is not from the area and he has SLU along with a couple of Big 12 or Big 10 schools on his short list, chances are he is going to be choosing one of the programs from the major conference. Athletics at those major conferences are on a whole different level than SLU. We don't have the resources they have. For us to be able to recruit players nationally against major programs, we need to build a foundation of winning games.

Your post appears to be an attempt to smear mud on Brad because Purdue landed some high-major recruits from the state of Indiana. Congratulations to Painter for landing some nice prospects from the area. It is not like he stole a top recruit from the west coast or east coast and I promise you he would not have gotten those guys if they were not from Indiana. SLU did not bow down when major programs came after area kids like Lisch and Liddell and they won't when they come after Brandenberg, Suggs, and Griffey. There is a difference between recuiting nationally and locally. Brad wants to build the program around home grown talent and he isn't going to backdown from any program that comes into our backyard. All we are saying is that at this point we cannot expect to go after some stud recruit from New York or Florida that has offers from high-majors and expect him to choose SLU and Purdue probably can't either at this point.

[brianstl]

Hardball, it is not even a legitmate question. They were not competing for the SLU job. Brad and Painter's former boss Bruce Weber were, you idiot. If you want ask who would you rather have, make it between choices that were present at the time.

Comparing SLU to Purdue shows you have no idea what you are talking about. In the last 25 years Purdue has 2 Elite Eight appearances, 3 additional sweet 16 appearances, 6 Big 10 titles, 14 20-win seasons( including six seasons with 25 or more wins), 17 NCAA appearances, 5 NIT appearances, and had the national coach of the year 6 times. They have an oustanding history going all the way back to John Wooden. Great program to compare SLU to. I hope Purdue has set the expectations high. The results of the past demand nothing less.

Before you go handing out blue juice, try knowing what the hell you are talking about. Then maybe you won't look like an ass next time.

[billiken_roy]

no thanks on your blue juice. i proudly have a lifetime supply already. but please begin to share some. you obviously dont drink it yourself. not sure why you are even here you apparently hate slu and brad soderberg so much.

again the situation is not the same. painter follows keady who was there forever and a day. one day too long, i.e. purdue hasnt been in the duldrums all that long so it is an easy sell for slick matt to reconnect the dots. unlike brad who has to try to convince student athletes (notice i said STUDENT athletes.) to come to a school that has had 4 coaches in about 15 years that the tread has stopped when some naysayers like yourself are advocating that the same trend continue on and we bring in number 5. second you have a lesser conference. third, painter gets to sell starting positions to everyone since purdue fell hard the last couple of seasons while soderberg has some of the best underclassmen coming back in a long long time at slu. fourth, you have the big 10 vs the a-10. as much as i still like the potential of the a-10, it isnt and never will be the big ten. fourth, you can bet that soderberg cant sell the easy route off the court. painter does. i have heard that from very good sources.

my suggestion hardball is to go buy yourself a black and gold boilermaker sweatshirt and join their message board. myself, i am in this for the long haul and will continue to give brad soderberg the time to build the program the right way with no shortcuts and within the rules.

[Hardball]

Greece,

First let me say that I have never said I did not like BS. My post is not meant to smear anyone just illustrate that it does not take 5+ years to build a D1 basketball program. I have questioned BS low scoring slow down game, his annual empty promises on employing a running game , game time adjustments and his recruiting mistakes that appear to be repeated on an regular basis. I am not asking us to beat out Duke, Kentucky, Florida, New York or California schools for recruits. I hold high expectations for the program where most provide excuses of low budgets, lack of national recognition and facilities. All of which can be said about SIU who has made the tournament the last several years. What has happened to the SLU faithful that feel comfortable watching SIU pass us by on a annual basis. This attitude never existed 5 years ago. As a matter of fact when Charlie was here they took our castaways (K. Williams).

In my mind it all starts with recruiting or the ability to identify talent. Even the most ardent supporters of BS have to agree that he has made some questionable decisions. The question is how long to you give BS to figure it out? Many want more time, some think 5+ years and no NCAA Tournament appearances is enough. If you want to be a Bigtime program you have to have Bigtime expectations. You cannot want a Bigtime program and follow that up with low expectations.

If you want to speak about recruiting locally he lost Stemler and Shaw. I hold BS accountable for these debacles and his seven evaluation excuse. Should SLU expect to get Stemler or Shaw? Would Painter have gotten Stemler or Shaw? Oh wait... Painter did get Shaw, my bad! Besides TL and KL (who I maintain were coming to SLU regardless) who has BS beat out in a recruiting battle? What player and what schools?

Much has been said that Brad got TL and KL. Does anyone think if Romar was still here he would not have secured Tommie and Kevin? Of course Romar would have because Tommie and Kevin wanted to play for SLU not BS or Romar. I thank them regularly for their loyalty. Not only would we have had KL and TL we also would have had Hollins and Grimes.

Romar missed on alot of recruits because he tried to recruit California for the Midwest. Painter is a Midwest guy and he recruits largely Midwest guys. BS has been a Midwest guy and he recruits Midwest guys yet he doesn't consistantly get Midwest guys. Bryant,Ian,IO and Drejia were not local yet they have carried the load of contribution since this regime has started.

This cell phone thing is another smokescreen. BS makes big money and a $500 phone bill (assistants included) should not be an excuse for missing on players. But if BS wants to throw it out there and you guys buy it so be it.

Anybody willing to answer the question yet? Or do you want to continue the whoa is me converstaion?

[brianstl]

Roy, I agree with you on what you are saying, except for one thing. When you say "STUDENT" atheletes. Prudue is a really fine academic institution. I think many peoole would say it is better than SLU.

[3star_recruit]

"Anybody willing to answer the question yet? Or do you want to continue the whoa is me converstaion?"

I'd rather have Painter but he wasn't even a head coach candidate five years ago. So why the question?

[FromGreeceWithLove]

Purdue is a great academic institution, but that does not mean the academics are tough on the athletes and that is what I gathered from what Roy posted.

[brianstl]

We are no tougher on atheletes then any other school. Pulley flunked out here and he flunked out at Mizzou. The only time academics plays a part at SLU compared to other schools is when it comes to transferring in.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

I do not agree with that statement at all. Some schools let their athletes float thru and I think Roy is saying that Painter has basically told recruits that academics will not be an issue. I agree that SLU is not overly tough on its athletes, but it does not give them a free pass.

[moytoy12]

Also, as has previously been discussed, state schools have the luxury of offering less rigorous majors.

[brianstl]

How does anybody know what Painter is telling recruits.

SLU has its own share of less than demanding majors. They got Pulley, Melvin Robinson, and Pee Wee , just to name three Rhoades scholars, into the school.

[Billiken Rich]

And how long did Pulley last?????

The entrance requirements (except JUCO's) are the same as any other school, however once the door is open the differences are plentiful. I know a drug-addled goofball who graduated from MU (don't we all) with a batchelor of general studies degree. To steal a line from Chris Rock, MU is "....like a disco with books."