cheeseman Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 If LM does not improve his shooting he has no business taking any of AD minutes. If Brad is serious about running more, then that also makes LM a question mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 He was good enough to verbal to Georgia. Unless he has not healed completely or may never, he had the skills and mobility before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Polk does not have to shoot the 3 - all he has to do is drive and dish or drive and pull up for th mid range jumper. If he can do that then he will be an asset on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I didn't say he wasn't good ... I said being the Texas Private School player of the year isn't all that impressive ... and it isn't. The Private schools in Texas don't amount to much Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 and you wonder why you come accross as pompous sometimes ... though I am wondering who should read more carefully ... in a nutshell you said it was ridiculous to think Obi may play more minutes than JJ ... with JJ's past history ... it is not ridiculous ... it makes perfect sense. I hope he doesn't ... I hop JJ comes through and stays focused and has a great year. I think he is a good kid and I hope he finds a way to work it out. I just wouldn't bet on it. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 imo, mental lapses, not listening semantics. not much difference imo. and either way not excuseable for division one basketball. if all a player is asked is to play hard defensively, rebound and take good shots, and they cannot consistently do that after 4 years, i dont see how anyone can defend that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Unless and until Bryce can play a full game at center, Obi gets in game shape, JJ finds a way to please Brad, or Adam adjusts to the college game....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Polk's effectiveness rests on his ability to shoot any shot. I don't care if its a three, a mid-range jumper or even a layup. First off, his ability to drive necessitates someone being on him. If he can't hit the ocean from the pier, why would I as a defender get up on him? His speed will kill just about any defender. So I slough off and dare him to make the jumper ... not once, not twice but all game. As a defender and based on his previous two years of performance, that's the poison I'm picking until he proves otherwise. With Lisch as the only proven exterior commodity, I'd pack the lane and dare this team to shoot. That negates Ian (if back), it negates Polk's drives (can't shoot over the trees), and it limits Tommie's slashing ability. Going into November, that's what I'd do agaisnt this team and see how it works. That's a lot of pressure for one shooter. And if the shots don't fall for Polk and Brown, we are back to where we were last year. Who are the add -ons? Maguire and Obi (if Obi's a shooting three more than and interior four)? History shows that Brad is somewhat reluctant to go with freshmen -- Lisch and Liddell being the exceptions. That's why I thought Stemler would have been another, more polished option. And someoone' scomment that JJ played great games at UNC and Gonzaga .... big deal. Who couldn't get up for the Tar Heels and the Zags? National powers. Nice sprint but what's ther in the long haul? Nothing. That's why there is not an ounce in the pail from JJ. Two games over three years doens't cut it. While I hate the "what have you done for me lately" attitude, JJ is guuilty of that now for three years. That is much longer than the usual 15 minutes of fame. Good .. free up another scholarship. I know I was extremely hard on VN this past year. But in my book, VN contributed a whole lot more than JJ. If JJ's potential is the promise carrot at the end of my rope, then I am truly a jack*ss for believing its going to come true. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I am guessing that history will once again prove it out. If Jj proves me wrong, so be it. But I am tired of watching the Sekue's, Varner's, VN's, JJs, McClains and Polks populate this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 >>And someoone' scomment that JJ played great games at UNC and Gonzaga .... big deal. Who couldn't get up for the Tar Heels and the Zags? National powers. Nice sprint but what's ther in the long haul? Nothing. That's why there is not an ounce in the pail from JJ. Two games over three years doens't cut it. While I hate the "what have you done for me lately" attitude, JJ is guuilty of that now for three years. That is much longer than the usual 15 minutes of fame. Good .. free up another scholarship. I know I was extremely hard on VN this past year. But in my book, VN contributed a whole lot more than JJ. If JJ's potential is the promise carrot at the end of my rope, then I am truly a jack*ss for believing its going to come true. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I am guessing that history will once again prove it out. If JJ proves me wrong, so be it.<< I disagree with the "two games in three years" part of your post on JJ but am not violently opposed to the rest. The two games were just examples. There are a handful of other games he would look like a legit PF for 20 minutes plus. The guy looks good for one game, mediocre for a half and then Brad banishes him to the bench for a five game stretch where JJ is down to 7 minutes per game. Then the cycle repeats itself. Three Star calls JJ a high energy guy. He reminds me of the grownup version of the kids in martial arts class who are borderline ADD: can kick the mess out the bag during drills but cannot slow down, concentrate, and learn the intricacies of the forms. Last year Brad elected to play an undersized 6'5" guard at PF rather than deal with a lack of focus guy. You can coax talent out of guys like JJ but it takes tons of patience. You need to keep these sorts of players involved in the game. Brad is not patient with players in that way. I'm not arguing that Brad should hold the hands of our players, just stating a perceived trait of our coach. Our talent level is rising so, god willing, hand holding of tempermental players will be less of a requirement for our head coach henceforth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 jjray said, "You can coax talent out of guys like JJ but it takes tons of patience. You need to keep these sorts of players involved in the game. Brad is not patient with players in that way. how much patience should a division one program have in waiting for a player to develop congnitive skills of listening and focus and following SIMPLE instruction? i have accepted that justin johnson is a perfect YMCA lunch time player. "hey let's pick sides and play!" unfortunately that doesnt translate to division one basketball with the exception of a good loyola marymount team about 15 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 >jjray said, > >"You can coax talent out of guys like JJ but it takes tons >of patience. You need to keep these sorts of players >involved in the game. Brad is not patient with players in >that way. > >how much patience should a division one program have in >waiting for a player to develop congnitive skills of >listening and focus and following SIMPLE instruction? > >i have accepted that justin johnson is a perfect YMCA lunch >time player. "hey let's pick sides and play!" >unfortunately that doesnt translate to division one >basketball with the exception of a good loyola marymount >team about 15 years ago. I understand that you and the majority of Billikendome are frustrated with JJ. But I don't get the point to continually bashing this kid. Why? Because you don't want to see JJ get another minute of court time? No need to go that route. Wait until practice comes and then argue that Obi and Adam offer better alternatives. You might very well be right but we can't tell until we see then on the floor competing together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 I think the bashing of jj is directly related to the amount of people claiming he's the best hope for a power forward we have this year. Since he looks like a power forward, talks like a power forward, scrimages like a power forward, we keep expecting hime to be a power forward...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 >Polk's effectiveness rests on his ability to shoot any shot. > I don't care if its a three, a mid-range jumper or even a >layup. First off, his ability to drive necessitates someone >being on him. If he can't hit the ocean from the pier, why >would I as a defender get up on him? His speed will kill >just about any defender. So I slough off and dare him to >make the jumper ... not once, not twice but all game. As a >defender and based on his previous two years of performance, >that's the poison I'm picking until he proves otherwise. > >With Lisch as the only proven exterior commodity, I'd pack >the lane and dare this team to shoot. That negates Ian (if >back), it negates Polk's drives (can't shoot over the >trees), and it limits Tommie's slashing ability. Going into >November, that's what I'd do agaisnt this team and see how >it works. > >That's a lot of pressure for one shooter. And if the shots >don't fall for Polk and Brown, we are back to where we were >last year. Who are the add -ons? Maguire and Obi (if Obi's >a shooting three more than and interior four)? History >shows that Brad is somewhat reluctant to go with freshmen -- >Lisch and Liddell being the exceptions. That's why I >thought Stemler would have been another, more polished >option. > >And someoone' scomment that JJ played great games at UNC and >Gonzaga .... big deal. Who couldn't get up for the Tar >Heels and the Zags? National powers. Nice sprint but >what's ther in the long haul? Nothing. That's why there is >not an ounce in the pail from JJ. Two games over three >years doens't cut it. While I hate the "what have you done >for me lately" attitude, JJ is guuilty of that now for three >years. That is much longer than the usual 15 minutes of >fame. Good .. free up another scholarship. > >I know I was extremely hard on VN this past year. But in my >book, VN contributed a whole lot more than JJ. If JJ's >potential is the promise carrot at the end of my rope, then >I am truly a jack*ss for believing its going to come true. >Could I be wrong? Sure. But I am guessing that history >will once again prove it out. If Jj proves me wrong, so be >it. > >But I am tired of watching the Sekue's, Varner's, VN's, JJs, >McClains and Polks populate this team. Why are you already tired of Polk? He had a real strong freshman year, but struggled as a sophomore. With Liddell as the starting pg, I dont expect him to start anymore in his career, but I have no doubt he can be the best backup pg in the conference. He wont be asked to do a lot off the bench and anything he contributes will be a plus. I also believe that if Brad lets the kids play lose instead bogged down everyone will shoot better polk included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I am assuming this "why already tired of Polk" question is directed at my post so I feel a need to respond. I am not tired of Polk. But so far, Polk has demonstrated very little to my overall expectations for the 2004 St. Louis Metro Player of the Year. Of course, we have all discussed to great lengths my individual problem with being the STL POY so let's not go there. But in mentioning that, I just want to say that because when saddled with such a title, I guess my expectation were a lot higher. In two years, Dwayne's overall stats have gone DOWN. This is not a demonstration of progress in my book. Over these two years, he has shot 95 of 278 from the field for a 34% average. His 3-pt accuracy is 28 out of 122 for 23%. His free throw percentage is not good for a point guard .... 59 out of 100 for the easy-to-figure 59%. He has totaled 130 assists over his two years, which would be 65 a year but if you play 30 games per year that averages out to a little over 2 apg. Not good, but you have to factor in what he was passing to for the finish. And without a running team, there are very little alley-oop dunks in this total. And his average over two years is a whopping 4.7 ppg. I just don't believe that these are good numbers in any mid-major program but while they are what they are, I am not tired of Polk .. just leery of expecting anything more because here comes year three and I don't know where this is going. Why? Because all of his number trended DOWNWARD last year. FG% went from 35 to 33. His 3pt % went from 26 to 17. His FT stayed constant at 57 to 63 (okay up six points but still below 2 out of every 3). And his average dropped over 33% but the overall loss was just 2.2 ppg. And I know he lost a lot of time to the advent of TL at the point. But Tl isa point and about the best one on the team so DP's numbers like the downward trends, are not good or promising. The trends are what they are. And physically, he's small. And Soderberg's game plan does not seem to play to his strengths. Tired of Polk? No. If this were a running,rebounding team that played a style to his advantage, he might be okay. I've seen smallish points do pretty well over time for the Bills. PeeWee Lenard. LaTodd Johnson. Kevin Williams. And I've seen small points fail. Bill Moulder. JJ Haliburton. Carlos McCauley. If Dwayne were running and gunning. If there were more options on the wings. If there was an Unseld-like rebounder/outlet passer. If, if, if. Not tired of Dwayne, but ready to lump him in with the list of coulda-beens and never-was's. I would rather say that I am much more tired of the fifth year senior than the progresing junior. But wihtout a great start this coming year, Dwayne gets buried and becomes a real role and spot player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 You think Carlos McCauley failed. Maybe you are thinking of Jeremy Biles ... who would have done well for SLU if he could have kept up his grades. I think Carlos had a good career. Not great, but certainly not a failure Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I hope Dwayne can have a Carlos style senior transformation and make everybody miss him after he graduates..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Carlos was a stud on defense. Didn't add much offensively, but with H, Claggett and Highmark in the lineup, he really didn't have to. I remember being pretty disappointed when Biles flunked out. He showed some nice flashes as a freshman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I agree on Biles. Sadly he fell off the map after a brief stint at Semo. MCCauley got a decent shot as a senior. I haven't looked at the numbers but he seemed to click on offense just in time to leave us..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 ironically, steve doesnt have carlos senior season team's stats on his stats link. while my memory says he improved, i think it was more a matter that the guns had left and he had to go up and there was nothing off the chartlike about his offensive stats. however defensively, carlos was a buzzsaw. i remember penny hardaway after he got to the nba still giving carlos mccauley kudos for toughest college defender he played against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I found 'em. In 95-96 he averaged 8.2 pts/2.5 reb, had 97 assists to 63 turnovers and finished with 25 steals and 2 blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 BTW, in 95-96 we were 13-3 at home and 1-10 on the road. WTF?? With a decent performance on the road, we would have been dancing that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 >I am assuming this "why already tired of Polk" question is >directed at my post so I feel a need to respond. > >I am not tired of Polk. But so far, Polk has demonstrated >very little to my overall expectations for the 2004 St. >Louis Metro Player of the Year. Of course, we have all >discussed to great lengths my individual problem with being >the STL POY so let's not go there. But in mentioning that, >I just want to say that because when saddled with such a >title, I guess my expectation were a lot higher. > >In two years, Dwayne's overall stats have gone DOWN. This >is not a demonstration of progress in my book. Over these >two years, he has shot 95 of 278 from the field for a 34% >average. His 3-pt accuracy is 28 out of 122 for 23%. His >free throw percentage is not good for a point guard .... 59 >out of 100 for the easy-to-figure 59%. He has totaled 130 >assists over his two years, which would be 65 a year but if >you play 30 games per year that averages out to a little >over 2 apg. Not good, but you have to factor in what he was >passing to for the finish. And without a running team, >there are very little alley-oop dunks in this total. And >his average over two years is a whopping 4.7 ppg. I just >don't believe that these are good numbers in any mid-major >program but while they are what they are, I am not tired of >Polk .. just leery of expecting anything more because here >comes year three and I don't know where this is going. > >Why? Because all of his number trended DOWNWARD last year. >FG% went from 35 to 33. His 3pt % went from 26 to 17. His >FT stayed constant at 57 to 63 (okay up six points but >still below 2 out of every 3). And his average dropped over >33% but the overall loss was just 2.2 ppg. And I know he >lost a lot of time to the advent of TL at the point. But Tl >isa point and about the best one on the team so DP's numbers >like the downward trends, are not good or promising. The >trends are what they are. And physically, he's small. And >Soderberg's game plan does not seem to play to his >strengths. > >Tired of Polk? No. If this were a running,rebounding team >that played a style to his advantage, he might be okay. >I've seen smallish points do pretty well over time for the >Bills. PeeWee Lenard. LaTodd Johnson. Kevin Williams. >And I've seen small points fail. Bill Moulder. JJ >Haliburton. Carlos McCauley. > >If Dwayne were running and gunning. If there were more >options on the wings. If there was an Unseld-like >rebounder/outlet passer. If, if, if. Not tired of Dwayne, >but ready to lump him in with the list of coulda-beens and >never-was's. > >I would rather say that I am much more tired of the fifth >year senior than the progresing junior. But wihtout a great >start this coming year, Dwayne gets buried and becomes a >real role and spot player. The fact that two studs were brought in that play his same position hurt polk. His freshman year was very solid. It was one of the better freshman seasons in some time. This time last year , people were excited about Polk and all they wanted was for him to improve his shot. He struggled early on and a lot of people gave up on him. I don't know if Brad has. To Polk's credit he hasnt complained. He's from a well-coached balanced system where he believes the sum is better than the parts. I think he can be one of the best backup pg's in the conference and the nation with his ability to come in and change the game with speed, pressure defense and uptempo style. I think he'll regain his form since he doesnt have to look over his shoulder, already knowing he wont be in that long. He can shoot with confidence as his role will be to provide an offense and defensive lift. He wasn't a pg in high school, so I dont know how you guys expect him to adjust to playing pg. He played lose in high school, without having to do so much of the ballhandling, he could just wait for his open looks or get out transition and be a blur. If Brad wasn't going to run, I dont know why they brought him in. He would be perfect for a system like CMA's or Romar's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 vtime, that was probably your best post in a long time. the only aspect of your post i dont agree is your inference that soderberg will never run. you have to have all the parts to be able to effectively fast break. we are closer than we have been for a long time to having those pieces to the puzzle and anyone that couldnt see that there was an effort to pick up the pace last year compared to the previous seasons coach soderberg has been in charge didnt watch the game or is just convienently closing their eyes. as to dwayne, i too believe polk can be very valuable. and it wouldnt surprise me to see an improved polk next year and possibly win the "replace drejaj" sweepstakes. he is a very good athlete and obviously a team player, but like any good athlete, he wants to play and he now knows what he needs to do to get time. now he just needs to do it. that said, danny brown, luke meyer and even maguire, also want more minutes so nothing is going to be a given. this competition and the return of ian are the two keys to the team improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Despite broy's belief that this is your best post in some time, there are items I disagree with. So maybe its a good post but I have issues .... Who are the two studs you mention? Liddell and Lisch? If I agree with you on this one, I guess I have to question the coach and ask, what ere you thinking? Polk, POY in 2004, small dude at 5'9", in my book has only one position and that is the point. Then, not even a year removed from that and you're bringing in two studs to replace him? Or play over him? That is either amazing, or pretty stupid. The Ban Brad Crowd will go with the latter. This is probably why I always thought of Lisch as a hotting or #2 guard and Liddell as a 3 spot player. even when Mike Deane was at Marquette, he knew enough NOT to bring in a replacement point until the current point was at least a junior. That gave the kid a year to learn and then be ready by the soph season at the earliest. Otherwise, you've essentially wasted a spot on your roster, wouldn't you agree? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and again, because of that POY distinction, I expected a whole lot more than 35% from the field, 26 from the arc, 57% from the line and a 5.8 ppg. But that's me. And while I can understand where such stats as a "Billiken" freshman might be okay, overall I would not say its one of the "better freshman seasons in some time." I will admit that I was somewhat excited about Polk this time last year, but, unfortunately, I guess I am a partof the ten-second sound bite society that demands immediate gratification in a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately situation that reflects backon the trend and sees not much waiting in the wings as far as Dwayne goes. But I'm nobody so saying "show him up Dwayne" will probably mean nothing. And once again, please stop the Vashon commercials. Until something major comes along and proves otherwise, Vashon don't play outside of Peoria, to bastardize an old theater thought. In my book, which is my book andmight be tougher than some, Vashon hasn't produced a "success" story in basketball since Bonner. I don't careif they win a state title ad infinitum. Finally, if I subscribe to your theory that Polk can be "on of the best backup pg's in the conference," well, then I have a problem. Because ine sence, if we recruit these kids as you have advocated in the past, then why are we recruiting kids to be backups in what some term an inferior, low-mid major conference? And again, cloud the issue with a former POY heading. I like what you have to say about his cahracter, but you don't really know, do you? I mean, the perfect human being thing would be to say he won't look over his shoulder and he knows he's in for only a short time. I challenge you to show me one kid today, sitting at the end of the bench, who truly believes he's in the right role and is being used properly. I am tired of the old "he didn't play point in high school" excuse as well. Marque Perry, arguably one of the best point guards in school history, was a three in high school. The coaches coach. They should be able to make him a point after two long, intense years, don't you think? If you're going to stand around all game and wait for your open looks to come, its going to be a long wait. Ask Drew Deiner. As for Skip's comment he's half right ... I couldn't remember Jeremy Biles and that was a failure. But my review of MacCauley is tainted as well. The person i meant to be talking about was none other than our new coach, Jamall Walker. For those that may have forgot, Walker was the Kansas POY out of Wichita South High School. I believe that maybe the thought was to get Walker and then get that Korleone Young that went pro out of high school and never amounted to anything. The Walker signing came close on the heels of having the Legend in the fold; Young and guys like Quentin Richardson were pursued heavily, thinking they'd all want to come and play with the Legend. His one and done hurt tons in my book. Anyway, Walker's annual stats are ppgs of 4.8, 6.0, 6.1 and 3.2. Now, he is fifthon the all-time assists list so I guess it wasn't all that bad. But again, I guess I expected much more "marquee" headlines from a state or metor player of the year than our recruits seems to bring in. Let me put it this way, in two years, H Waldman recorded 295 assists. TWO YEARS. If he does that for four, he has 590 total assists which obliterates Josh Fisher's current record of 436. Waldman is also ninth in FT%, fifth in three pointers made, second in three point %, seventh in threes attempted, ninth in total assists, and tied for seventh in total steals. All in two years. Granted they were probably the best two years in Billiken modern history but so be it. Some have argued that if you want to watch pure basketball, you watch the women play. I say, you just pop in old tapes of the game according to H. Only the fact tht skip beat me to the punch prevents me from listing H's name at the bottom of my posts. Many will say that the Legend was the greatest Billiken player. Frankly, i'll take H any day including over the Legend. H was a blur and H was content in the half court. I tire of the excuses for guys like DP and JJ. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I remember Jamall as being frustrating to watch. I think he'll be a much better coach than he was a player though - he was on Cusumano's show a couple of weeks ago, and he's very charismatic and enthusiastic. He struck me as the kind of guy who can win over recruits. He's proud to be a part of the SLU family, and it's great to have a guy like him back in the fold. H was the man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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