Stemler?FrankC radio??

[billiken_roy]

noah is the perfect example of a super athlete that fits the system and today's game and horrible "dont blow the whistle" officiating. he is about as raw of a "basketball player" as they come. however there is no mistaking his amazing abilities and potential. i wouldnt want him on my horse team, and i wouldnt use him in any teaching fundamental basketball videos.

that said, he would likely still be the first pick in the draft this year simply because of all that potential.

[Hardball]

Roy to be quite honest I am tired of all the defense talk. When do we start to think about offense. The defense issue has been an excuse for missing on players for four years. Heck Syracuse won the national title playing a 2-3 zone and I saw Florida playing a zone alot in the most important game of the year.

If we are truely looking at the same player why the indecision. Can this staff make a decision and move on. How about reshirt DM and play Stemler. How long did that take. Sounds like a reasonable plan and it addresses your problem of needing more shooters and provides long term depth.

It is this staff's recruiting thought process that has allowed Marquette and Nebraska to get in the game with Stemler. Do you not see a pattern from year to year on the the lack of ability to make a quick assesment when necessary. And we are only talking about situations that we know of. How about the ones we do not.

I am not saying we have to buy two of the same. What I am saying is what is our PLAN? This thinking over process is mind-boggling. After four years do we have a plan or not?

If Soderberg was still in the frame of mind in November that we were set on the wings he was wrong. So who should we blame for the faulty thinking?

I am not worried about Stemler's feeligs being hurt because an offer from SLU should be good enough for any recruit. I am worried about the effects of such indecision on recruiting. It is hard enough on this staff that they do not need to give the competition any more ammunition.

[Billikenbooster]

If Stemler is going to visit Hawaii, and he just made an 'unofficial' visit to SLU yesterday, is he going to be able to make his mind up by next Wed?

Could it be that even if we offered earlier, he wanted to be able to spread his wings and see what else was shaking out there? Sure is nice to be sitting back at your desk when you are 45 years, saying to your office mates how you were recruited by all these schools, rather than say I went to the closest D1 school to my JUCO, since my girlfriend at the time was close by.

mhg

[billiken_roy]

i think part of soderberg's grand plan is indeed to eventually use redshirts, but also to always have the open scholarship to be able to react quickly to transfer opportunites.

keeping that thought in mind, i think coach soderberg also has to realize that his roster is out of balance between guards and forwards. i wont defend him on that issue. he recruited them.

however, it wont get any better if he continues to bring in 3-1 guards. thus he was looking at trying to balance the roster this recruiting class. thus he indecision on stemler initially.

imo, that shows a trend towards more of long term plan and less reactionary as he has been forced to do for the first couple of years he was the coach. eventually the roster will balance and only then can he make the decisions you are thirsting for.

as to redshirting maguire, he has said two things in the past about redshirting. 1. he might suggest it, but it is ultimately the player's decision. 2. he wont redshirt someone that he doesnt believe the redshirt season if it doesnt project to a win win for the team and player. i.e. let's say they have greg hardin on the roster. 100 lbs overweight and obviously a missed recruiting decision. sitting out a year doesnt mean that he will be all conference the next season. it only means they tie up a scholarship that wont benefit the team for an additional season.

i am not connecting maguire to either of the two things above. i am only saying that until maguire actually gets to slu and begins playing with the billikens, he doesnt know. think about obi. he didnt announce him as a redshirt until both exhibition games had been played. so whether or not maguire is going to be redshirted wont be known until the end of november.

[billiken_roy]

maybe he just wants a trip to hawaii.

[Basketbill]

it seems to me the redshirt year needs to benefit both the team and the player, but the ideal candidate is a player who needs to add a little bulk.

We need shooters, adding one is not as good as adding two. I have only seen a few short clips of DM, while he does not appear to be a bruiser, his muscle mass seemed well defined. To me he looked like a lankier lisch. If this impression is accurate, then I doubt a redshirt year would benefit DM significantly. I also do not see LS and DM equivalent players. Meaning DM is a 2/3 and LS is a 3/4 player.

I hope to see, a lineup with LS as the 3 and a true PF (obi, Walls etc) at the 4. DM would back up LS and KL. My hope is that we can have at least 2 3 pt threats(>40%) on the court at all times, and often times have 3 (KL,LS,DM).

[tseugnekillib]

Hardball said:

(1) "what other coaches are doing should have no impact on what Soderberg should do",

It appears Soderberg did exactly that when he offered DM prior to the meat of Dustin's final AAU season. SLU got its offer out there and DM took it without consideration of other offers he was sure to get before or after his senior year.

(2) "we offer DM early when he had no other D1 offers",

Do you know if DM had other early D1 offers (I don't know)? Do you doubt that DM would not have received other D1 offers?

(3) "I would hope Soderberg would have enough confidence in his ability to identify a talent for his system and not be influenced by what other coaches are either thinking about or doing",

Didn't Soderberg do exactly that with DM? He identified a talent in DM and he extended an offer that was promptly accepted. Why extend an offer to LS in December when (a) you don't really know at that time what you have in JJ,DB,LM, or your other 2006 Spring recruiting options; and ( when you (and the rest of the world) are not completely sold on LS in December considering his lack of playing time the previous two years....no hindsight allowed.

(4) Rick Pitino on Billy Donovon's ability to recongize talent....boy, Billy sure dug deep and took a flyer on David Lee!

friend Hardball, it seems you want it both ways on Soderberg's recruiting....you question the early signing of DM and you question a studied February offer to LS! I'm guessing you like LS more than DM, even though they are two different cases, and that you are not particularly crazy about Soderberg....again, just my guess!

[cujaysfan]

if he visits hawaii - its bad news for slu fans

hawaii generally doesn't allow visits unless someone is already a verbal (or at least that had been the policy in the past)

eliminates the situation just mentioned - kids just stringing hawaii along for a free trip - which for the rainbows - is really really expensive.

[Hardball]

My point on DM is that when Soderberg has time to make an offer he doesn't take it. And when he doesn't have time to waste he wants his seven evaluation periods. It's all about how smart you are with your offers and to date I think the jury is stll out on Soderberg. Does the name Shaw mean anything to you? He told Shaw the same thing he told Stemler we need to see you more. I know he was holding on for Grimes but how about this Question "Kalen you have two days to accept our offer or we are going elsewhere". Coaches do this all the time. If he had done this we would had Shaw here for two years now. Major mistake that he didn't learn from. History has a way of repeating itself and apparantly that is why we are in a fight for Stemler when we really shouldn't be.

I know when DM accepted SLU's offer he had no other D1 offers. So why the rush? I'm sure he would have recieved some D1 offere but from whom? Would any of them be better than SLU? Do you think Marquette, George Mason, Hawaii or Nebraska would have recruited DM much less offered as early as we did?

Hindsight a funny thing. No one ever gets to use it but it is the reason why schools change coaches. Soderberg is paid to be right. The responsibility to effectively judge talent go's along with the $400,000 annual salary. It is difficult to be right all the time but is it to much to ask to at least learn from you past missteps.

TSEUG, you miss the point on judging Talent. Everyone knew and could idetify Lee as a Talent but Donovon proved that you do not need a roster full of All Americans to win. What you do need is a eye for identifing talent when no one else see's it. Heck after watching George Mason for three weeks I still can't name their starting five. But someone at GM recognized the Talent on their rostor. Donovon had more All Americans on previous teams but it took him taking a flyer on Noah when no other comparable team would. Soderberg has proven he can not get the Top 100 recruits so he better be good at seeing Talent where others do not.

[tseugnekillib]

Hardball...again, you want it both ways. When its a player you like

(say LS ) you want the quick offer. On the flip side, when its a player you are not particularly crazy about (say DM).....you want a delayed offer.

No doubt....me, you and Soderberg have three different opinions on both LS and DM.....but his opinion is the only one that counts. For the record, Soderberg offered LS quicker than I would have....maybe I seen too many SWIC games (14). Plus, I have no clue as to who the other potential recuits might be.

Regarding Shaw....I would have felt worse if he would have signed with

a Big Ten, or a Big 12, or any other BCS school, but he didn't.

"learning from your past mis-steps".....if Soderberg considers Shaw a "mis-steps", perhaps that why he offered DM as earlier as he did. Again, you can't have it both ways!

I agree, Soderberg cannot use hindsight.....but me and you certainly can!

[slufanskip]

It seems to me that you state alot of things as fact that are really just your opinion. Do you really know what he told Shaw? He may not have offered or been in on Shaw early enough ... but I doubt he just offers up ... we want to keep looking at you. Do you raelly know what most coaches say? I doubt he told Stemler that. How did the conversation go.

LS ... coach are you going to offer me a scholarship? UB ... not right now we want to watch you a little more. I doubt LS asked and I doubt UB just offered up ... We want to use all our visits before we offer you ... probably he just didn't offer as soon as LS would have liked ... or maybe LS isn't unhappy with when UB offered. Maybe he just wants to weigh all his options before he makes a decision.

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[Schasz]

Well good for Billy D...he took a chance on a kid and it panned out for him and the Gators.

[billiken_roy]

i guess i would have to know what you mean by "no other comparable team would". i find it hard to believe that most teams wouldnt have offered noah a scholarship. i dont know his recruiting story though. maybe you have some links to provide that would show us that florida was the only team that recruited him?

[billiken_roy]

my two cents after seeing stemler 3 times near the end of the season and numerous times in high school. i totally agree with coach soderberg's approach. first, as a power forward i am convinced he isnt the answer. and originally that was where he was being evaluated at.

second, originally the belief was that the likes of polk, brown, meyer and maguire were going to cover our 3rd guard needs for the next three years. it want until mid december that doubt began to creep into the billiken nation minds. i spent a number of posts questioning why lisch wasnt playing more and was told by many here that polk and brown deserved it more. with that kind of expected depth, why would we have been considering stemler for the sf position then as well. especially considering his defensive liabilities.

even with that delay though, keep in mind, the billikens were still the first to show interest. and the first who indeed did offer stemler a scholarship. thus, to hold the fact that coach soderberg did offer the first offer sooner against coach soderberg is ridiculous imo.

[Schasz]

I'd love to see someone with his ability in a Billiken uniform.

[cheeseman]

CJay - your point about Hawaii not bringing everybody over who wants a vacation is true but lets look at it this way - If Lance makes his unofficial visit to SLU prior to the scheduled Hawaii trip then he can decide one way or the other prior to going. So, I see this has perhaps a good advantage for us.

[BlueStorm]

The word on the campus at swic is that nothing is a done deal. I have a class with him and have followed the local hoops scene intensely. From what I have gathered Stemler has a list of (5) schools he is very interested in: George Washington, Hawaii, Marquette, Nebraska, and SLU (And dont worry they are in no order). I have read most of the messages on the board about Stemler and cant figure out how a player who cant do all the things people say (i.e. defend inside, rebound) can get looks from such good schools in good conferences. I even heard that Texas Tech recently inquired. If you look at his career he has been successful when given a chance. It is tough to get chances when you are playing behind Mr. Bradley and SWIC alum Marcellus Sommerville, so how do you hold that against his ability. I think you have to look at a player in the now vs. the past. He is much older, stronger, and battle tested, those of you that have seen him can back this up. This kid is nowhere near the kid he was at Gibault.

[BlueStorm]

tseugnekillib I am not sure where you have gotten your information. First Marquette and Hawaii are not new to the chase, in fact Marquette's assistant was seen by Mike Moore, the A.D. at Forrest Park, who told me he came to watch SWIC play a sorry Forrest Park team that SWIC beat by 30 plus. Then I saw Coach Crean at SWIC when Stemler had his worst game I had seen all year, but they have still offered a scholorship. In talking with a friend, The legendary Gene Bess thought so much of this kid that he called his good friend at Hawaii and told them about Stemler after he dumped 29 on his 3rivers team in P. Bluff and I think that is where they jumped in. While all this was going on SLU was making i guess their seven evaluations on a kid who was shooting lights out against some of the best midwest jucos and playing the close to home card instead of just trying to get the best fit for their needs. I guess thats why the top level programs get the best players because they only need one or two evaluations to know if a kid fits their program. But it is still good to see them aggressively pursuing him now and I hope he does stick around in the SLU BLUE!

Second I think you cant rate a player on his past: new team, new coaches , older, stronger and all the rest have influences on his performance today. As a head coach, you should know who fits and who doesnt, thats your job.

Third, look at SIU-C roster as all on this board know their is an ex-SLU recruit by the name of Matt Shaw playing the 4, why would they want him ( Use your basketball knowledge please). They may have been looking at another SWIC player. And Purdue, wasnt Lusk from this area, how bad would it be if he didnt come and check things out. Plus I think Purdue has a former SWIC player in Bryant Dillion. Which leads to my last comment: If SWIC has all these type of players then why are there not any at SLU? Seems like a good program with quality people, someone please help me understand the madness.

[tseugnekillib]

Blue Storm....I not sure if Crean offered after his first look at LS or not, but I agree the first time Crean was at SWIC he did not see LS's best effort. I'm guessing that's why Crean came back for another season ending look.

.

Yes, Gene Bass told Riley Wallace about LS in December, but Hawaii didn't see LS play until Hutch. Riley's first visit to SWIC re LS was on the Monday after Hutch, March 27.

There are two parts to the bball court, the offensive end and the defensive end. LS does very well at one end. SLU needs help at both ends.

I don't see LS as a 4 at SIU-C and from speaking with Rodney Watson, neither does he....he would play LS and Shaw at the same time. If Lawrence Blackledge can get into SIU-C, they ought to take him. I don't think that Paul Lusk and Matt Painter came to SWIC for a social visit. Re Bryant Dillon....how many SLU transferable credits do you think he had? Sommerville came from Peoria and was going straight back to Peoria from Day One. We agree, SWIC's players are good kids because JH doesn't bring in any turds. If SLU wants LS, then I hope he becomes a Billiken and has much success.

Maybe I could catch you at Cutter's someday and we further this interesting topic!

[Schasz]

Nice to have you in the mix Blue Storm, and count me in with the group that wants to see Lance sign a LOI with the Bills...we need another player that can shoot beyond the arc, and Lance fits that bill.

[tseugnekillib]

Blue Storm.....do you know in what order LS received his offers? And whatever happened with Kent State's interest?

[slufanskip]

The frustration isn't with LS from most posters it is about the lack of a true 4 ... so when people hear about LS, the first question is ... can he play the 4? When they hear that he is really a 3 ... well that is where the questions arise. I saw him play once. It was enough. We need him ... he would start at the 3 from day 1.

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[billiken_roy]

bluestorm, welcome to the board.

you do know that to transfer from a juco to a 4 year university that the transferring player has to have passing credits in the right classes to be on pace to graduate with his class in an existing major at the school being considered? did dillion have the credits to transfer to a slu major? i dont know the answer to that, but after the billikens were burned twice in 4 years on this rule, i suspect that coach soderberg makes sure that academics are in order now on jucos before making an offer.

second, which of the billiken sophomores (and liddell) would you have not recruited to have recruited dilion assuming dillion would have qualified under the restrictive academic rule?

i have seen dillion play and he is a nice player. but not a great player, and i dont think he was any better than the sophomores that the billikens have now.

[billiken_roy]

bluestorm he gets looks and offers because he is indeed a great shooter. he will immediately be the billikens at worst second best shooter and h-o-r-s-e games with mr lisch would be fun to watch.

however, there is no way you can deny he had difficulty stopping whomever he was guarding or that he was lazy reboundingwise.

there is a huge difference between 6'4" juco pf's and 6'9" a-10 power forwards and when slu was originally investigating, i am sure they were thinking pf. any coach that doesnt think twice about that move at the a-10 level or higher would not be doing his job.

however at a wing, which i am sure that is where all the schools involved see lance playing at the next level, while the defensive deficiencies might be still there (now instead of a strength problem, it would be a quickness problem), the rebounding questions are not an issue. and his shooting prowess becomes a huge plus, especially with his 6'6" height. i would take lance in a second as drejaj's replacement.

[BlueStorm]

I don't know all the rules on what transfers and what doesn't, but i did talk with one of the the other players on SWIC's team and asked about this. Come to find out he believes that SWIC and SLU have an agreement about classes transfering to SLU from SWIC because SLU offers some of their pre-nursing class through SWIC. But who knows!!!

The odd man out is polk. The bills could have used a better pg then him and i believe if not for political reasons he would not even be on the team. Is a kid that lead the Big 10 in average minutes played not worth a look or visit. I don't ever remember hearing his name with SLU on the local recruiting scene at the time. What about when Liddell didnt make his requirements, didnt that open up a spot? Would SLU fans have loved a line up of 6'6 Dillion (1), 6'2 Lisch (2), 6'5 Liddell (3), who ever at (4), and 6'10 Big Man (5)? I would have?

I will get back to you after i do some more research on the Stemler issue, I have learned some very interesting things from this site that have helped my basketball knowledge...Thanks To All Who Post!!!