TheGoat Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 how did he and polk start at the same time...they are both PG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 That may be true, but each and every one of those "invites" was the automatic bid out of the Mid-Continent, was it not??? Maybe they got one at-large but I don't beleive that one team is going to constantly win the A10 as a Valpo might in the Mid-Con ... as a Gonzaga might in the WAC .... or as a Hampton or Coppin might in the MEAC. So in order for us to duplicate seven appearances since 1996, you would need to either dominate for a decade or get a few at-larges to balance out the usual upsets taht occur in conference tournaments. I don't think we want to be in a one-bid league as Valpo will always be if it remians with the Mid-Con. Secondly, I've always read three-star posts because you make great sense. However, if I can agree to disagree with you as well, you sat Valpo had good recruiting classes and their failure was due to youth and injuries. I'm not arguing the point, but I think the statement can be used to further ask "sez who?" when it comes to ranking a recruting class. Not that any one class is good or bad, but just because someone says its good or bad frankly means nothing at levels below the higher conferences. Remeber, the gurus once proclaimed SLU's Tyrone Caswell the pre-season recruit of the year in either the MCC or CUSA and we all know that didn't pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I recognize that reasoning and understand your statement, Nate, but you have to admit that winning such an honor, in such a large metro area, would imply that there is some sort of expanded future on the horizon, yes? I'm not saying NBA but some implied meaning that identifies moving on to the "next" level. Its probably unfair of me to focus on the St. Louis metro area but that's what I read most about. And there are the many who believe that if Brad had a lock on this area, we'd be as successful as all get out. Yet it seems to me that those selected to teh PS All-Metro team don't really line up that way. Just my take on things and probably more wrong than the next guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 31, 2006 Author Share Posted March 31, 2006 >how did he and polk start at the same time...they are both >PG? If you watched Vashon in 2004 you would know that Washington and Polk started together with Daniels, J. Hill, and Muse. After the Normandy tourney, Franklin replaced Daniels in the starting lineup. Washington was a 4 year starter from 2002-2006. Washington wasnt going to start at all his freshman year, but when Polk got hurt he stepped in, slid Donny Jackson to off-guard and never relinquished his spot. That was a down year for the program, and they were extremely small playing Washington, Polk, and Jackson down the stretch, but did win 12 in a row with that lineup. Bobby Hill actually had a freshman year than Washington despite not being a full-time starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 nate, you will never convince me that you all did the right thing giving langdon the poy award last year. it made no sense at all. hell i am not even sure he deserved to be recognized as lafeyette's best player let alone the area. you all blew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 >If you watched Vashon in 2004 you would know that Washington >and Polk started together with Daniels, J. Hill, and Muse. >After the Normandy tourney, Franklin replaced Daniels in the >starting lineup. Washington was a 4 year starter from >2002-2006. Washington wasnt going to start at all his >freshman year, but when Polk got hurt he stepped in, slid >Donny Jackson to off-guard and never relinquished his spot. >That was a down year for the program, and they were >extremely small playing Washington, Polk, and Jackson down >the stretch, but did win 12 in a row with that lineup. >Bobby Hill actually had a freshman year than Washington >despite not being a full-time starter. First, I thought we were talking about AAU, where Washington supposedly held his own. I know that he and Polk played at the same time at V, but you were asserting that Washington held his own in AAU against some of the SLU guards were you not? If that is incorrect please say so. Second, you never answered the question about the kid at WIU, did you or did you not see him in person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 31, 2006 Author Share Posted March 31, 2006 >>If you watched Vashon in 2004 you would know that Washington >>and Polk started together with Daniels, J. Hill, and Muse. >>After the Normandy tourney, Franklin replaced Daniels in the >>starting lineup. Washington was a 4 year starter from >>2002-2006. Washington wasnt going to start at all his >>freshman year, but when Polk got hurt he stepped in, slid >>Donny Jackson to off-guard and never relinquished his spot. >>That was a down year for the program, and they were >>extremely small playing Washington, Polk, and Jackson down >>the stretch, but did win 12 in a row with that lineup. >>Bobby Hill actually had a freshman year than Washington >>despite not being a full-time starter. > > >First, I thought we were talking about AAU, where Washington >supposedly held his own. I know that he and Polk played at >the same time at V, but you were asserting that Washington >held his own in AAU against some of the SLU guards were you >not? If that is incorrect please say so. Second, you never >answered the question about the kid at WIU, did you or did >you not see him in person? We were talking about AAU until someone asked how polk and washington could play at the same time because they are both pg's. I was simply explaining that they did so during the entire 2004 season and part of the 2003 season. Washington and Polk played on the same AAU team also, Gameface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted March 31, 2006 Author Share Posted March 31, 2006 He couldn't give it to Barnett or Lisch because they both missed significant time. Hill had a 12ppg game average and Fuhrmeyer lost to Hill's team early in the playoffs. Down year for basketball in the area. I personally would've had Powell on the team, but no matter who they picked that year, a ton of people would've been upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Ok, I appreciate the clarification, now, how about the real issue at hand. Are you commenting on players, the WIU kid in this case, without seeing them and claiming that they would be "super" athletes...having not watched them play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 That's definitely true - I wouldn't want to be in a one-bid conference either. However, I wouldn't mind having the kind of success in our conference that Valpo has had in theirs. They have pretty much dominated their conference since the 93-94 season, with eight 20+ win seasons since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Waiting for an answer to the question you have been dodging for days. Did you or did you not see the WIU kid in person during last season? Hmmmm???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 I saw him play in person many times on the Saint Louis Falcons 17's as I had relative in the same program on the 16's. I also saw him play at Alton many times. He became a star as soon as Johnny Hill left. We all joked about how he looked like Kevin Garnett. And he's extremely long as has well over a 40 inch vertical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 True 40+ inch verticals are pretty rare. Dwyane Wade, for example, has a 39 inch vertical and very few guys get up like him. It's usually the little guys you see with verticals "well over" 40 inches, like Nate Robinson. If a player is 6'6 and has a vertical well over 40 inches, he should be able to pull off the same dunks that Jason Richardson does. http://www.dwyane-wade-flash.com/Pictures/Flash19.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Last chance....you dodged the question again....all that was good and fine. that was high school. DID YOU EVER SEE HIM PLAY LAST YEAR FOR WIU??? If you are going to continue to dodge the question and not provide proof to back-up your claims on this kid, I am going to have to assume that other things you have said in the past about him and others to be questionable as well. I would not take this lightly as your reputation and credibility are at stake here on this board. I will be patiently wiating your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 V-Time ALREADY stated that he didn't keep up with Western Illinois last year. He's already noted that Maurice Taylor struggled as a freshman, but he's hoping that he'll improve next year. I have my doubts, but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 "Taylor is not done, and is a 6'7 super-athlete that might have helped" "no more attacks from my end. But I've got to question some of the tie-ins you're making here. You said "Taylor is a 6'7" super athlete." And I don't know the WIU situation either but to me, a 6'7" super athlete has got to do more than 1.7 ppg and get more then 7 mintues a game with a 7 and 21 ballclub. In the Mid-Continent. It woudl seem to me that the kid isn't beating out the competitiono nhis own team, let alone the rest of the conference. And on a 7 and 21 ballclub. That would be my tie-in and we can agree to disagree." My beef lies in the fact that V is always touting his boys and saying what stud ball players they are as he did in this case with the above "super" athlete comment. that being said, how can one determine such a thing, if one has never watched them play against college competition and state that he had the right for more minutes at WIU? Taj called him on it as well in the second above statement and he skirted around the issue there also, and im glad Taj did this as I know that he has also been voicing his frustration, sometimes a little harshly. Not only did V not respond to the question, he didn't respond at all to Taj proving him wrong. This is only one small example but i believe that it can be expanded to V's overall presence here on the board. Not only the constant offering of suggestions about players that have no business playing for any D1 teams, but touting that SLU coaching staff have made mistakes on not taking them. Again, if he starts backing up his statements with a little fact and not so much rhetoric, then I will shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Thanks for the support, Goat, but Vee does this a lot and he gets his support form the usuals. I just decided after the tennis issue not to get so bent out of shape with the kid anymore. His statements show some obvious issues but so what. I think there are many on here, such as yourself, who see Vee for what he is. You can call him all you want, if you got him, he won't respond. My issue is that there are/were all sorts of claims and pronouncements made without validation but I am willing to take them for what they are, laugh them off, question where need be, but not let it bother me into attacking the porr kid .... youth is ambitious as well as blind. But I was there once so I let him dig his own trenches. Vee's answers are actually true ... the ambition of his youth is sign each and every kid in the greater St. Louis area. Good fo rhim. Those grounded in reality know that you only get 13 scholarships per year and you have to be the wizard enough to make it all work. Kid can't play at Podunk U. but "might have" helped at Saint Louis U. Really, there is no need to defend that kind of statement .... shouldas-couldas-wouldas make talk radio and schock jocks money through the country. I'd say chant "Serenity Now" but that's probably based on a southern spiritual that I don't want to go into anymore! Vee has knowledge that comes with sitting in way too many high school gyms and at way too many AAU encounters, just not enough experience to shave the chaff off the wheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 In total agreement with all you said and will try to adopt more of your zen. By the way, I think V's unwillingness to answer the above stated question for the last couple of days says more than words could ever speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 "Giddy-yup!" --- Kozmo Kramer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I just caught that ... Many people thein JB is better than KL. ... and people have comlained about UB evaluating players. I hope none of those "many" people never get to recruit for SLU. ... or does it just qualify as many because he has alot of family members in the Belleville area. I've seen JB play a couple of times and always thought he was a nice player ... but better than KL. Come on it's not even close Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 How am I dodging this question. I said a long time ago, I didn't know his situation at WIU. READ THE THREAD! I have seen one of his game this year on film, the one against Harris-Stowe, but that's not a lot to go on with him playing against inferior competition. Are you satisfied now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Ok, then would it be feasible to believe that you no real knowledge of how much of a "super athlete" he is at WIU like you alluded to earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 and still be a super athlete. They are not mutually exclusive. Again, I don't see why you're nitpicking V-time on this issue. Now you can question V-Time's ability to spot athleticism, but you can't do that based on a player's performance in his freshman year. There could be some outside factors involved, such as inability to learn a team's system, poor performance in the classroom or an unknown injury that could have hampered his progress. We don't have enough information to make any judgments here. Be patient and then call out V-Time a few years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 >Ok, then would it be feasible to believe that you no real >knowledge of how much of a "super athlete" he is at WIU like >you alluded to earlier? How do you come to that realization. I've seen many super athletes in person and on TV. I saw Taylor play for the Falcons many times when he was on the 17's level and my brother was on the 16's. I also saw him play when they played against Harris-Stowe. We all know what a great athlete looks like. Think Gerald Wallace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Think Fabio. Think Hulk Hogan. Think John Basdow. Think Mark Wahlberg. Now, come on, Vee, all these guys would pass for "looking like an athlete" but we know noen of them really are, right? How about the gov, Ahhhhhnold? I've played "super athletes" in the local rec league ... at least "super" compared to me. At my age. Are you comparing Taylor to you? Of course you're not but still, "super athletes" don't end up at Western Illinois because, to me now, if they are that "super" someone at a higher level is going ot take the chance. Can you agree with that one? I'll give you those couple of years that aj says we need to. I'm going to be like Santa and keep a list ...... the problem to me is that if you can't spot talent right off the top, and I know I can't, then saying "so-and-so deserves this scholarship or that" is a complete, unjustified, throw-away statement. Which you seem to make a lot of if you're basing statements on seeing someone once. Proof is in the pudding and how can anyone make a recommendation on a one-time siting. If that were the case, Adrain Moss should be the number one draft pick after last night. I have complete faith in the fact that, after mentioning 20 - 30 - 90 names, one of them will end up being good and then all the issues will be laid to rest because you got that one right. Keep that youthful, if misplaced, exuberance coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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