davidnark Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Why isn't Lisch starting over Drejaj? They are similar style players, but Lisch does everything better than Drejaj. Why wouldn't we start the halves with our best lineup? How can VN's vertical be so poor? Newborne's vertical is comparable to Drew Deiner's. IMO, the vertical leap is one of the most important physical attributes for forwards. Why didn't we evaluate this when we signed Newborne? In the last two minutes of the game, Newborne had an easy dunk opportunity that he turned into a missed layup because he can't jump. My local rec center has dozens of guys who get up a lot better than Newborne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEE Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 I couldn't agree with you more about kevin and anthony. kevin has so much more upside, talent, ability and instincts. put kevin in there with tommy and danny and then let em' go! 5 fouls in 21 min. that is quality leadership AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Agree on both issues, except that Drejaj is much better from 3 pt. range than Lisch (.455 vs. .308). Also, Drejaj has 9 steals to Kevin's 3. Drejaj is averaging just 2 minutes more than Lisch so I am not sure that there would be a huge difference in starting Lisch. Still, I would like to see Lisch start. On Newborne, I saw the same play. I cannot understand why these guys don't just jam it. I cannot believe that Newborne cannot jump, I just think he chooses not to. No idea why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 I think coach wanted to give the job to Drejaj in the beginning because he's a senior, but eventually Lisch will earn the right to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 4, 2005 Author Share Posted December 4, 2005 Trust me, Newborne can't jump. I'm not sure if the staff tests the guy's verticals, but I would be that Newborne's vertical is in the bottom three on the team. It isn't his fault; the staff should have known this when they recruited and signed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenBurg Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 u guys are stupid, drejaj is better than lisch, lisch can not defend the bigger players like drejaj can hes not strong enough. lisch just looks for his shot most of the time and drejaj looks to run the offense. drejaj had 5 fouls because hes going against a guy thats 6 5 220 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted December 4, 2005 Author Share Posted December 4, 2005 nm = no message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Drejaj is a career .343 three point shooter. Using his 11 3 pointer attempts this year to draw any conclusions is misleading at best. Kevin has taken only 13 three point shots all year so I can't really use stats to evaluate his shooting but considering only one more make would make his percentage .385 it just shows how silly it is to evaluate shooting ability based on 4 games. Do you really believe Drejaj is a better shooter than Lisch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I guess then people evaluating Kurt Warner were idiots for bringing him into the NFL.... Look, I just posted some numbers from the athletic department's web site. The stats are FACTS so of course I can be serious about them. Can a player like Drejaj not get better at shooting or improve at shooting? If that is the case, your logic would dictate that the team never take another 3 point shot because we shoot it poorly. Since Lisch was a great shooter in high school does that guarantee that he will be in college (remember a guy named Drew Diener, he could shoot the lights out of the ball in high school, but when he came to SLU he was constantly criticized for not being able to get his shot off). Was Ian as good as a freshman as he is now? Should Soderberg have just chucked Ian to the side based upon his first season? C'mon, you are off base to assume that Drejaj's better shooting is JUST a statistical aberration. Maybe it is, but that is one BIG assumption. Maybe he worked over the summer on his 3 point shot. Maybe Lisch gets too rattled to get his shot off in college. I AGREED with David that Lisch should start over Drejaj, but I'm not stupid enough to ignore four games worth of statistics, consequently, I posted them for the benefit of other readers. Sorry that you feel that is "silly". Also, where did I say that Drejaj is a "better shooter than Lisch"? I simply stated statistics from this year and in those statitics, Drejaj has better numbers than Lisch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 "Drejaj is much better from 3 pt. range than Lisch (.455 vs. .308)" I know this is stats 101 but Drejaj has taken 323 3-pointers in his career for a 34% shooting percentage but you feel that his 5/11 performance this year is more representative of his current abilities? Seems like you have way too small a sample size to make that statement. Additionally, Drejaj's 3 point % has been 36%, 36% and 29% over his past three years. Seems like the trend is going down. After 3 years its been long enough to make some honest judgements about Drejaj's shooting ability. I'm not sure what you are talking about with Warner and Ian references but if either had performed poorly for 3 years then yes, they probaly shouldn't continually be thrown out there and expect different results. For what its worth I don't think 35% is all that terrible from 3-point range as that equates to 52% from 2 point land so nowhere have I said that Drejaj shouldn't take open 3 pointers. However, you said Drejaj is a MUCH better 3-point shooter than KL based on an incredibly small sample size while you ignore 3 years of data on Drejaj. By your definition we should have Luke Meyer shoot every time he touches the ball as he's 2/3 from three land this year and Bryce should shoot the free throws on any technicals as he's a perfect 1/1. You are correct that I shouldn't have made the leap that you were saying Drejaj is a better shooter than KL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenBurg Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 If any starter should be replaced it will be either polk or brown. brown had one good game against weak competition and the only thing polk brings to the table is speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Polk brings more than speed - he brings play making, ability to beat the press by himself, and he has a low turn over to assist ratio. KL could take time from DB instead not from Polk. The answer to the VN question is this equation: VN=stiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I think it is important to get off to a good start in a game, experience matters eliminates silly mistakes, steals are important, Kevin has to outplay AD, not play just as good as him. Moreover it is kind of a moot point since they are both getting similar minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 >If any starter should be replaced it will be either polk or >brown. brown had one good game against weak competition and >the only thing polk brings to the table is speed Polk didnt get his second turnover until the 4th game of the season It doesnt get any more steady than that from the pg position. He flat out takes care of the ball and doesn't make the silly mistakes you would expect from a sophomore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Simple math, my friend: .455 > .308 Small sample size or not, .455 is MUCH BETTER than .308. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 it looks as if you're coming around to seeing DP as a point guard. you're losing your touch as a contrarian. DP's floor game has been more than solid, plus great defense on tatum last week. hopefully, the trey can come around. if not, keep doing what he's doing, plus the penetration finishes I saw last night and he's fine. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 when newborne missed that layup last night i said to my friend that was watching with me, "my gosh, a college forward has to dunk that ball." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 after all Nunez batted .385 in the NLCS and Pujols only batted .304. You would have given Nunez $10mm a year based on that performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 >Simple math, my friend: > >.455 > .308 > >Small sample size or not, .455 is MUCH BETTER than .308. Currently, JJ Reddick is 85% from the free throw line but Bryce Husak is 100% from the line. I guess that means Husak's the better free-throw shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Let's wait a few games before we decide how to play these guards. I have thought that Anthony has played his heart out--often guarding the best player who might be 4-5 inches taller. His shot looks funny but he has hit a good percentage. Clearly, Kevin has the potential to be a much better player but he has a lot to learn. His defense last night left a lot to be desired. Everyone talks about his on ball defense but that walk on beat him off the dribble several times and Kevin had to foul to stop a lay up. He also missed a number of shots--some were forced and some were wide open. That being said, I think our best team includes Polk, Liddell, Lisch and Ian. Based on his recent play, if he does not get to understand the game better when we are on the run I would put Lisch in for Danny Brown. The problem is that then the team is really small on the defensive end. I would love to see Luke or Danny really step up and be that guy that can play with the top group but they have not yet played very well. For those of you who are on the JJ bandwagon, he cannot play more than 8-10 minutes. I taped the game last night and watched it--the feed from Charter was horrible--and I concentrated on JJ when he was in. He made a couple of nice plays and got a rebound in heavy traffic but he also made several bad mistakes on defense, made some terrible turnovers and missed several of his shots. If we can spot him and get him to understand his limited role then he could play but we cannot live with the negative results that overshadow the positive like last night. When we get against teams who have more traditional 5 men I believe we will see Bryce as the first big off the bench to replace Ian. I am like everyone else--the missed lay up after a fantastic move and feed by Kevin was just like last year and I thought that any big time formward has to dunk that ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 "I know this is stats 101 but Drejaj has taken 323 3-pointers in his career for a 34% shooting percentage but you feel that his 5/11 performance this year is more representative of his current abilities?" I just re-read that. Are you joking??? What could possibly be MORE representative of his CURRENT abilities that what he is CURRENTLY doing? May not be representative of his past, maybe not the future, but his CURRENT stats sure as hell are representative of his CURRENT abilities!! If you cannot figure that out, you need to forget about Stats 101 and go back to grade school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 And people wonder why there are personal attacks on this board. It was a simple comment that was based on facts. You both are twisting and twisting to try and make it look like I said Drejaj was a better player than Lisch. Either you are immature or stupid. Re-read the post, Shoe People. I AGREED with David that Lisch should be playing in front of Drejaj, but that Drejaj has some stats that were better than Lisch. The shoe sure doesn't fall far from the tree. People like you two run off the people who post here. Why? What are you trying to achieve...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Career .250 hitter starts a new regular season and during the first week goes 10 for 25 and is batting .400. By your standards the current expectations for this player are now to hit .400? I just think if you have more than 320 data points on a player its probably not wise to use the last 11 and assume they will hold true. It is FAR more likely that evaluating the 320+ data points will give you a more accurate picture. I'm sorry you have taken this thread personal but I fail to see where either Shoe has said anything personal towards you, besides my Nunez analgoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I NEVER said anything about "expectations"! NEVER. Didn't happen. You are creating a dispute where none exists. Why? I am completely serious, why? We were talking about "current abilities" NOT current expectations. Two completely different things. You want analogies, here is an analogy: Plane hijacked by terrorists flies into building. Now, the FACT that the plane was hijacked and is flown into a building does unambiguously define the terrorists' current abilities. However, no one with any level of intelligence would now state that current expectations are that every plane will be hijacked by terrorists and flown into buildings. My entire point in the response to the original post was to AGREE with Lisch playing in front of Drejaj. I just stated a fact about recent performance. How can you not comprehend that? Now, if I had stated that Drejaj should start in front of Lisch because he is a better three point shooter, then you have a point, otherwise, you are ignoring the main point and creating an issue where none previously existed. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 >And people wonder why there are personal attacks on this >board. > >It was a simple comment that was based on facts. You both >are twisting and twisting to try and make it look like I >said Drejaj was a better player than Lisch. Either you are >immature or stupid. Re-read the post, Shoe People. I >AGREED with David that Lisch should be playing in front of >Drejaj, but that Drejaj has some stats that were better than >Lisch. > >The shoe sure doesn't fall far from the tree. > >People like you two run off the people who post here. Why? >What are you trying to achieve...? where did either one of us personally attack you. the point of this thread is to debate which player should start. so when you suggest something we don't agree with, we argue against it. There was nothing personal in anything we said. your post however.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.