good Ahern article on CBS Sportsline

[Billiphan]

Hardball and Cursor,

Welcome to the board. Roy and Billiken Rich(Bdick) are angry, sad men. It really bothers Roy if a kid goes somewhere else for college. We had this same debate a few weeks back about a kid who went to Duke instead of SLU. I enjoyed the initial post and applaud Ahearns accomplishments. I for one think Ahearn could have helped the squad. Some people on here say he's a headcase. I don't know about that. I do know I've heard he's a tremendous worker. Roy can't appreciate the accomplishments of St. Louis kids doing well. F Roy. He's not even from St. Louis.

[Billiken Rich]

I was truely worried that something happened to you since its been so long since you slithered out of your hole. Any cause will do for you apparently.

[billiken_roy]

i can assure you any negativity i have towards blake ahearn has nothing to do with him not coming to slu. i never wanted him to come to slu. i am thrilled he found success coming off the bench for missouri state.

as to not from st louis, i didnt realize that only those that lived within the actual city limits of st louis had comment rights. it is especially surprising i am being frozen out beings i have lived within 40 miles of the arch my entire life and graduated from slu. but you make the rules. i understand.

[cheeseman]

First of all - name calling is never productive. The Metro area does include where Roy lives so it is dumb to say he is not from St. Louis. Second, Ahern could have helped - would he have been the answer for last year, probably not. If he won't play defense then how would Brad ever get him in the game? Third, he clearly is a great FT shooter but if you can not get in the game, how will you get to shoot FTs. He was Romar's recruit and when Romer left, Brad was not obligated to offer him. The real rub here is that Clarke was such a bust. If he does anything more than he did we would never even be talking about this topic. So, good luck Ahern and it is time to move on just as it is time to move on about Romer's tenure.

[Box and Won]

I can't believe we're still talking about this after several years.

[Billiphan]

Who are you, the board mother? Are you going to give me a timeout for calling Roy a name? And thanks for the lesson on the Metro area geography.

[billiken_roy]

and you call me "angry and sad"? wow.

[slufanskip]

Why can't we just talk about basketball ... Billiphan, if you could just leave your remarks about Roy and Rich out of the discussion and they could do the same ... we know people have different political views, but this is a basketball board ... disagree, but make your disagreement be about the point being discussed, not personal.

Everyone knows that You, Roy, Rich and a few others including myself disagree on many things political ...

Sorry ... I'm not trying to be the board mother either ... just would rather read your opinion about the topic ...

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[Billiken Rich]

Uh oh!

Skip is sliding down the Talibannister.....

[Billiphan]

Skip,

You're right. Sometimes I cant help myself. We had two new people join the board and I was just upset that their first experience was the negativity and rudeness expressed by Broy and Bdick. We need the new blood on the board and I hope those two didn't chase them away.

[billiken_roy]

please point out where my direct post response to hardball and cursor were rude?

also, if these two are truly interested in posting about BILLIKEN BASKETBALL rather than ahearn talk, i would assume they would join in on some of the other threads that have been very good as of late. alas, they havent.

if cursor and hardball feel i was rude and too rough on them, i apologize. i will try to be less honest with my opinions in the future when responding to their posts.

[Hardball]

Roy,

Your comments do not offend me at all nor will they keep me from commenting on a basketball topic that I find interesting. You see I happen to think you don't know the first thing about basketball. Therefore your opinion on Ahern the basketball player never concerned me. My original point was and still is what is the motivation for taking a shot at a STL kid period. If Ahern grew up on the east side of the river would you still have the same resentment?

The original post was not "the one that got away" or "Don't you wish we had him now" just the suggestion of a good article about Ahern.

It was your remark that minimized the importance of the FTHW skill. A skill that cost us at least countless games last year. Your opinions are obvious as it relates to Ahern. What is also obvious is your objectivity on the subject. Your insistance that we could not have used him the last two years is ridiculous but as I said before tiring and predictable.

People on this board are never going to agree on Ahern. A bigger question for me is who is evaluating the talent. If Ahearn could not help us how about Oppland from Valpo? How about Tatum of SIU? Would any of us really rather have Newbourne for two years than Shaw for four? I remember when we were better than SIU. Now SIU has multiple NCAA appearances in a row and we are 9-21.

I believe we have bigger questions to be answered than could Ahern have help us.

[slufanskip]

We tried to get Shaw ... we lost out, it has nothing to do with Newborne. Every year people get away that could help us. Many of them not by our choice though.

On the Ahearn issue ... I tend to think he could have helped us, even if off the bench ... I do though question if UB would have played him as I don't think anyone can deny that his defense is not very good.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[billiken_roy]

hardball said,

"Your comments do not offend me at all nor will they keep me from commenting on a basketball topic that I find interesting. You see I happen to think you don't know the first thing about basketball. Therefore your opinion on Ahern the basketball player never concerned me. My original point was and still is what is the motivation for taking a shot at a STL kid period."

i guess the best way to honestly answer that is that if faced with it, i will defend the billiken program before i defend the area high school players. that may not sit well with those close to a particular player in question, but as stated above, by another poster, i pretty much bleed billiken blue and typically take the billiken side on topics. not all the time. i have been known to be negative as well if the subject irks me enough.

as to ahearn in particular, there are two views i have defended on the whole ahearn thing. one is should we have taken him over clarke the other would he have contributed. on the clarke question, i would have still taken clarke simply because of the difference in athleticism. of course we now know in hindsight that darren didnt do the things necessary to earn playing time for the billikens. eventually it forced darren to make the transfer decision. will darren ever contribute let alone do more collegiatewise than blake ahearn? at this point it doesnt appear so. however, he is being given a fresh start and who knows what happens in 3 years. only then can we say for sure who was the better recruit. some you win on others you lose.

as to whether ahearn would have contributed as a billiken, look at coach soderberg's track record on players lacking in practice committment, or defense. the likes of justin johnson and drew diener sat a lot even though they were arguably the best at certain attributes or skills. i believe that compared to the players coach soderberg was playing and what they did right, judging by the way coach soderberg has doled playing time in the past, the same would have been the case with blake ahearn due to his defensive and ball handling skills. that is nothing against him as a shooter and a free throw marksman. i recognize he is top shelf in both categories.

hardball said, "If Ahern grew up on the east side of the river would you still have the same resentment?"

yeah, if you remember when we were discussing the likeliness or want of xaiver price becoming a billiken, i didnt jump on that bandwagon either. mainly because even though he too was a fantastic athlete, i felt he had traits that wouldnt play for coach soderberg as well. but there is an example of an metro east star that i didnt endorse. i think if you go back and read my comments on dustin maguire, i havent jumped completely on that bandwagon either. i.e. east/west has nothing to do with my likes of college recruits.

hardball said,

"The original post was not "the one that got away" or "Don't you wish we had him now" just the suggestion of a good article about Ahern."

the title of the post was, but when you opened the post up, the only comment other than the actual link was something to the effect "he is better than jj reddick". nothing about he is a better free throw shooter than jj reddick. and my original post resonse back only addressed the fact that billiken law didnt tell us that he was better than reddick in free throws. i did not say another word specifically about blake ahearn.

hardball said,

"It was your remark that minimized the importance of the FTHW skill. A skill that cost us at least countless games last year. Your opinions are obvious as it relates to Ahern. What is also obvious is your objectivity on the subject. Your insistance that we could not have used him the last two years is ridiculous but as I said before tiring and predictable."

i have no idea where i ever said free throws were not important. i have insinuated that a player needs to be more rounded in all aspects of the game, i admit that. and last, again, my comments are not what i wanted when talking about could we have used him or not, but rather do i think he would have had the opportunity to help us? there is a big difference. i am convinced that he wouldnt have gotten the opportunity. so it doesnt matter.

hardball said,

"People on this board are never going to agree on Ahern. A bigger question for me is who is evaluating the talent. If Ahearn could not help us how about Oppland from Valpo?"

romar wanted oppland badly. however the oppland twins made it known that it was a package deal or no deal. the second oppland has since left valpo to head to kirksville and it is my understanding he is no longer on that team as well. did we want to be forced to take a package deal of that magnitude? there is no doubt dan would have been huge for us. my gosh it is the perfect answer to our now dilemna on the 4 position. but i can see why romar didnt allow that 2 for 1 deal. that all said, that was a romar deal not a soderberg deal. and we ended up with seifert instead who then transferred when he got homesick. i recall brad saying his first year as head coach, he strongly questioned romar's selection of seifert. so you cant hold soderberg responsible for any of that.

hardball said,

"How about Tatum of SIU?"

dont recall exactly, but i am thinking that was when coach soderberg went with the juco guard that didnt qualify by the next summer. long term, no doubt, tatum was the right choice, however, at the time, coach soderberg was convinced he wanted a stronger and more experienced player. to the point that he rolled the dice on brandon morris qualifying. what is more discouraging is the fact that morris did qualify for wisconsin green bay. but i totally agree that in hindsight tatum would have been a nice player to have gotten.

hardball said, "Would any of us really rather have Newbourne for two years than Shaw for four?"

i was shaw's champion on this board. so again i totally agree. the choice though wasnt shaw or newborne. coach soderberg only took newborne after shaw committed to siu. i have always wondered had coach soderberg recruited shaw hard all year instead of chasing kalem grimes, could that have changed the outcome? who knows. painter was in on shaw very early and many have told me that shaw only mildly considered slu.

hardball said,

"I remember when we were better than SIU. Now SIU has multiple NCAA appearances in a row and we are 9-21."

that is a true statement. and the architect of that, bruce weber, has since made it to the final four for illinois. so likely the question has to be instead, should we have tried to get webber instead of romar? but of course romar has had very good success since leaving slu as well. maybe the difference is more than the coach.

hardball said,

" I believe we have bigger questions to be answered than could Ahern have help us. "

i totally agree. and would much rather discuss those questions than blake ahearn anyday.

That was a very probing and thoughtful post hardball. i look forward to you joining other subjects of discussion!

[Billiken Rich]

Everyone said Clarke had one of the best three point shots on the team. He didn't see much action due to limited defensive skills.....hmmmm.....

[courtside]

Last two cents on the topic for me:

I believe Torch's post has merit. Ahearn's dad has a horrible reputation in particular. He was a rare DeSmet kid who put himself ahead of the team according closely informed people, and his defense was in question. He had some bad influences.

Where kids are from means zero to me. I would be fine if SLU had ZERO local players. Who cares? I don't. You want to win, period. ...not at all costs, but you want to win.

I think everyone would like to say Ahearn wasn't good enough to play for SLU and wouldn't have played for various reasons, thus not helping the team. Unfortunately I can't agree with that based on the past couple of SLU teams. If SLU were much better with other guys, sure, but they weren't, period.

I admittedly didn't read some of the above posts to avoid people's pissing wars...but I will say this...so I am not really sure what was discussed about geography in this thread...and I really don't want to know....but off topic a bit...I greatly appreciate the posts from those far away, across the country...and finding out what is going on in their backyard. Again, .......off topic.

[Cursor100]

The Ahearn issue is mute now and should be put on the back burner once and for all. I do not believe this thread was started to bring up an issue that is totally meaningless at this point. Is not the "real" issue here about a local kid that has done good?

Billiken Roy, you can back step all you want but your comment comparing Ahearn's accomplishment with some guy who makes free throws strictly for entertainment purposes and who probably never went to college was made as a contemptuous remark either about the "local" kid's accomplishment or free throws. Either way I personally translated your comment as down playing the importance of free throws in a game. According to this statement you made you are saying "free throws" big deal some guy makes 1000's of them and never played college ball. Well, hello, free throws are a "big" deal in the game of basketball. As I stated before they win games. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows this. So if I translated your comment comparing the two, you tell me Billiken Roy, what were you "really" saying about free throws or about the St. Louis kid's accomplishment? Which of the two were you downplaying with your comparison? Free throws or "our" local kid's accomplishment?

[billiken_roy]

i was making the point that overall ahearn wasnt as good overall as jj redick as billiken law tired to mask in his original post.

[Cursor100]

Billiken Roy, if that is the case than why the comparison and not just come right out and say what the heck you meant? I have never known you to post using cryptic messages before. Thanks for the heads up on how to read your future posts.

[billiken_roy]

actually i get in trouble here all the time for sarcasm and comparison statements like i did to incite this thread. one would think i would learn my lesson. my goal in life is to have dinner with billiphan and triangle where the two of them are fighting to pay the bill. only then will i realize i have mended my ways.

[Billiken Law]

um, that's what the article said, not me. I personally don't think Reddick is all that. If he wasn't at Duke he'd be just another player. Fact is that in a big game in the final seconds I'd rather have Ahern out there to take the last shot than just about any other player - the point of the article.

[billiken_roy]

your original post in this string said,

""good Ahern article on CBS Sportsline"

calls him better than JJ Reddick. Damn.... "

had that statment read "calls him a better free throw shooter than jj redick" i contend no one would have responded to the post. but the way you wrote it, i clicked on the link thinking some springfield reporter or someone else was trying to justify that blake was a better player than reddick.

that is what i have been trying to say this entire string.

[slufanskip]

I thought the same as Roy until I read the article. It only says he is a better free throw shooter than Reddick.

You must be kidding that you would rather have Ahearn taking the final shot in a game than Reddick ... aren't you?

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[Billiken Law]

my take was that the article called him a better shooter than Reddick. Outside of shooting, I don't think Reddick is all that - he's a shooter and little more. Regardless, a local guy we could have really used (how many games came down to missed FT's last year?).

[billiken_roy]

nevermind