ACE Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >my comments were made towards irons. he is the one that >coaches the team and imo does nothing to teach them >basketball. he survives off of having incredible depth of >pure athletes. i.e. he is responsible for not harnessing >those players. > >as to your comment about how proud you were of the team. it >appeared that irons didnt even shake hands with the opposing >coach. an assistant did but irons didnt. > >sorry, you can have them and i'll apologize to vashon when >they apologize for walking off the court a few years back, >running up the score on desmet and many others over the >years, and now irons not shaking hands with the winning >coach saturday nite, and all the illegal recruiting he does >each year. Roy, it's one thing to be critical of Irons... the guy is arrogant and brings a lot of criticism on himself. It's another thing to compare 16, 17-year-old African-American kids to "wild animals." You might want to take a deep breathe and re-think that one a little bit. You were way out of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Roy I might agree with you about Irons the person but not Irons the coach. Pulling teams off the court,throwing your jacket at the scorers table,not shaking hands,using the race card are not things I want in my coach. But to say he's not a good if not great baketball coach is ridiculous. He does a tremendous job with his kids year in year out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 where did i connect anthing i said to race. you did that ace. not me. i was purely talking about a style of play and game plan which i hate. you all are making the next jump not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 who else has the kind of talent to choose from year in and year out to compare him to? sorry, i will take the likes of dennis rueter at gibault any day. couple that with the questions about why most of the kids are even enrolled at vashon when they live in other school districts, you want me to praise a cheater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I think his record speaks for itself, but I think the guy has absolutely no class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 this is probably the most concise description of everying going on there. Good team, Bad Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I'm not talking about the off the court Irons. Every year he puts out a team that plays his style with discipline. For the most part his kids stay out of trouble{while at Vashon]and are respectfull to him and his coaches. I agree with the statement that the fact that his players haven't gone on to great college careers is a credit to his coaching ability. He gets the most out of his players. He is a father figure to many of his players. Roy you are in the minority on this one. You may be a minority of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I actually know Floyd personally so I'll have to disagree with the the folks here. A person's public persona isn't always his private one. Floyd's public persona is an act to intimidate and draw pressure away from his players and to himself. The private persona is the real person. And there are very few men that you will meet that are as giving and down to earth as Floyd Irons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I therefore stand corrected, as I will amend my previous statement to this: great team, guy that i dont care for, but gets results from his players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSlu Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >i totally disagree. the likes of a tyler hansborough makes >the other kids around him better. i would probably take the >athleticism and potential of every one of vashon's starters >before i would take ben hansborough. what is sad is that >the vashon kids are just wild animals. they are taught >nothing fundamentally. but some of the stuff they do on >instinct and straight athleticism cant be taught. Wild animals??? Are you kidding me? And you make this genius assessment over ONE game? GS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 As a Missouri fan, I am offended that you are offended by street ball style. I demand an apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 3 star, since i have tremendous respect for you, i believe you 100%. that said, i dont agree with what coach irons does then. to play games such as that and project all the wrong things, and teach the kids the wrong things is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 no from watching coach irons and vashon for 25 years. nothing changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >>besides all the unneccessary and borderline outrageous >>pushing, pulling, hitting, how can you defend some of the >>wild shots and runs to the basket as early as the 3rd >>quarter when down by double digits? sorry, there is a >>difference between aggressive and stupid play. imo most of >>vashon play saturday nite was out of control and thus my >>"wild animal" assertion. > >"animal" means subhuman. I would not throw a label like >that on a kid in a public forum based upon how he (or an >entire team) plays. I understand that you wish to criticize >the play observed and that is reasonable but it can be done >without degrading the players personally as subhuman. >Attack the play but not the player is my point. Apparently Roy really is this clueless. Throwing that label at 16, 17-year-old kids and then sticking by it upon further reflection is a new low for Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I'm not creating anything. You said it and you're foolishly sticking by it. Keep digging yourself a bigger hole if you want to. Whether you like Irons or not (I personally do not), no one can deny that his teams consistently play hard. They tend to be over-achieving, blue collar teams. Somehow that translates to you that the kids are like "wild animals." That's twisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 just dont invent some sort of race allegation. i never said that, you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I hope no one is seriously calling Roy a racist. I would hope most of us have been on this board far to long to seriously believe that. His choice of words may have been wrong ... but the point he was trying to make is that is his opinion they play wild undisciplined basketball. I agree they play at a wild and crazy pace ... but I don't think I would call it undisciplined. I don't think you win 60 straight games without discipline. I am also it appears one of the few that think if Tyler would have had a couple of early reach fouls called on him as Leon Powell did ... the game might have been different ... and I do think Tyler committed many reach and body fouls early ... they just didn't get called. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 skip when the vast majority of your scheduled games are against the rest of the public high league with stolen players from the rest of the metro area to create their all star team, that 60 game streak isnt all that great. that said, they did protect the streak this year with a couple of impressive wins on the road vs other nationally ranked teams, so for that they should be commended. besides the reach fouls, imo, vashon actually got away with a boat load of over the back calls on the boards. and again i question why they havent been taught to block out better then they do. they just go to the rim and get the ball. for 99% of their games that is good enough. it cost them saturday though as besides hansborough the rest of popular bluff was much better at blocking out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Roy, I never categorized your comments as blatently racist, just clueless. Don't take my word, a variety of other people took issue with what you said. You were asked to apologize. Your words were also described as "insulting", "ignorant and absurd", "rude and uncalled for" and it was called a "ridiculous statement" among other criticisms. You must be proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I seriously doubt that anyone on this board is a racist in the sense that George Wallace was a racist. But I am disappointed to read the same old stereotypes about black players getting by on raw athleticism and lacking fundamentals while athletic white players are hard-nosed with high basketball IQs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 NO ACE. YOU were the one that tried to make it out that this was a race thing. i never once brought race into the statement. i only commented on the style of play of the team. for that you owe me an apology. as that fact isnt even open to discussion for making such an accusation. many may disagree with my observance of the style of play of vashon, that is fine i understand that. but i never made the terrible statement that you are now trying to pin on me for that i detest your worthlessness. it takes a very small person to do what you just did and i take offense to that. but judging by the way you have always treated me, that should have been expected. you have consistently made up and insinuated such charges and it is just another example of your nastiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 >NO ACE. YOU were the one that tried to make it out that >this was a race thing. i never once brought race into the >statement. i only commented on the style of play of the >team. for that you owe me an apology. as that fact isnt >even open to discussion for making such an accusation. many >may disagree with my observance of the style of play of >vashon, that is fine i understand that. but i never made >the terrible statement that you are now trying to pin on me >for that i detest your worthlessness. it takes a very small >person to do what you just did and i take offense to that. >but judging by the way you have always treated me, that >should have been expected. you have consistently made up >and insinuated such charges and it is just another example >of your nastiness. Roy, no one is buying your nonsense. You are attacking me now to try to take the heat off yourself. Look at how many other people took issue with your comment. As jjray pointed out, you basically categorized 16, 17-year old kids as subhuman. I haven't "made up" anything. You accused Vashon players of playing like "wild animals." Did Anthony Bonner and Dwayne Polk play like "wild animals." You should be ashamed of yourself. Before you try to shoot me again for being the messenger, check out what 3-star said below. I echo his thoughts on this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 as i said, i never once brought up race. you did. but you have taken great joy in trying to make anything i ever post be taken in a different light. one that you create. i questioned their style of play which is consistent with the way i have discussed basketball the entire time i have been on this forum. i have never ever been a fan of rockem sockem basketball run and gun with no regard for a shot clock if there was one. and every time it has ever come up i have taken a similar stance. if i chose a poor choice of words, so be it. but i still believe they are not a deliberate disciplined team as some are trying to say. to see my definition of deliberate disciplined team, think about the billikens the last few seasons. i dont characterize vashon style basketball as anything resembling that. but again, it was you that made the race allegation. not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Roy, Vashon participates in the Public High League, where are the "vast majority of your scheduled games" supposed to come from if you are in a league or conference?? who in the area outside of the PHL will schedule Vashon?? ESL and Ritter come to mind and NO ONE else, so where is Vashon supposed to get non conference games?? the answer is they go out of town which has two benefits in my mind - gets them a game (which they can't get around here) and gives the kids a chance to see something outside of the region (and I'll throw in an observation from afar here) which they maybe wouldn't otherwise have the chance to see From my experiences watching Vashon, this team was the least physical I have seen and yet probably the best collection of Vashon bodies I have seen. Floyd has his faults, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoat Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Why are we going after a player that is averaging 9.3 pts a game anyway? Can we surely not get that out of Meyer and Brown, not to mention Lisch and Liddell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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