Impressive Win

[slufanskip]

I spent 8 years working out for an hour and a half a day ... but I never gained 25 lbs of muscle ... even in my best day at 65 lbs lighter than I am now ... my upper body was never that cut ... but I could outlift many of the guys who looked like they worked out a lot more than I did. Not all bodies react the same.

I can see improvements in Ians body ... he is thinner. He isn't all cut up ... but he may never be.

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[brehms13]

Ultimately u don't have to buy it...no one does. If he's in the gym he's in the gym, he works with the weight trainer and with his teammates and he works out in the summer in his own country.

Just because he's not here for the summer doesn't mean he isn't putting forth effort, I agree that u can have your opinions, it's the assumptions that rubs me the wrong way. U're assuming he's lazy, u're assuming he's not working out, u're assuming u know his body's metabolism and how quickly or not he can lose weight. U're assuming, do u converse with him after games?, do u ask questions in meetings? What r u basing your assumptions, because he hasn't lost ENOUGH weight, because he doesn't have ENOUGH muscles? I don't get it..most times I agree with you, but u're going overboard only because u're actually commenting as if u PERSONALLY know he's lazy and as a result of his laziness his game is (u fill in the blank, choose any word) Do u know this? If not, how can u come conclude some of your comments. What makes u think he's cheating? Have u seen him eat? Did u spot him at a fast food Drive-Thru? What? I don't get it.

If u simply don't like him or his game for whatever reason, that's cool but every response I'm seeing comments as if u know something more about his situation than the rest of us, including me and I actually happen to know he works out, do u?

[billiken_roy]

i dont necessarily want ian to gain any weight. i want him to lose/firm up what he has.

i totally disagree with your assertion that you cannot make significant progress in just 18 months without steroids. i would bet if he went on a high protein diet with maybe a salad or two mixed in, and hit the weights hard plus conditioning. he would be signifcantly different.

last year when i hit the atkins trail and doubled my workout from 30 minutes 3-4 times a week on just areobic type work to 60 minutes 5-6 times a week with areobic, pilates and nautalus training, i was stronger and in better shape and significantly stronger than what i have been in in probably 20 years. and that took about 5 months to do. i have since slipped back about 10 lbs and tapered on my strength training, but then again, i have to earn a living during the day and provide taxi service and fanship for my extremely active kids.

if an old guy can do that on his own, without the advantages of the equipment that the simon rec center can furnish plus a strength and conditioning trainer, i find it hard to believe that a young man in the prime of his life cant even come close to that.

[billiken_roy]

lack of knowledge? doesnt slu employ a guy full time as the strength and conditioning coach? i would think being a teaching medical facility, they have access to dieticians. plus we have a full time trainer as well. if lack of knowledge is an excuse, someone should get fired.

if i was a strength and conditioning guy, the thought of an ian walking in and getting that guy to be all that he could be could be the key to setting me up for life! i mean to have a diamond in the rough at your fingertips and knowing that to cut that could bring endless possibilities down the road.

[billiken_roy]

brehms, i just dont see a significant improvement in his body or his game.

[Tonka]

employ a guy as strength and conditioning coach - sure they do, but so what! you mean to tell me that you've never met people who train with trainers and don't see much improvement? come on. Katie Couric pays her trainer 100K a year and she can't do one full real push-up.

I just don't think we can judge from what we see of Ian at games in at practice and say he is lazy or isn't committed. we don't know unless we've been told that by people close to him or if we were there to watch him all the time. In fact, we are told just the opposite by people close to the program that he is doing the stuff he is supposed to. I guess you could say he may just go through the motions and not get anything out of it, but that would really be taking a shot at the guy and again, pure speculation.

There is some truth to what Skip said about putting on limits to putting on the muscle without roids. The average athlete can only put on 15 pounds of lean muscle weight a year naturally. They can gain more than that, but it won't be lean muscle. So, in 18 months, a person committed to hardcore weight training and taking all the right legal supplements will only gain 22.5 pounds of lean muscle if doing everything darn near perfect. Now we now during the season, they can't weight train hardcore, so that leaves just the offseason. So, you're expectations are completely unrealistic.

Roy, I think we are the same in having high expectations of players and people in general, but they have to be realistic and they can't be based off of speculation. It seems like you are putting great effort into your body and that is great, but I as outsider may think you are underachiever in regards to your strength training. But, that would be just my opinion of where I think the common man ought to be. Well, that would be unfair of me.

[Billikan]

First, it is very clear that Ian has lost some of the baby fat that he had last year and he is much better shape. I would challenge anyone to try to play 36 minutes in a major college game against big athletic guys pushing all the time. It takes strength and stamina just to play under those circumstances. Your post is an insult to Ian.

Second, if there is one thing I hate it is stereotypes. You constantly criticize Ian because he is not leaping, high flying athletic center. I say I agree with that assessment and I say also SO WHAT! All types of BASKETBALL PLAYERS can be successful and your stereotype is not the only one. There have been plenty of very good basketball players who are not "cut" with big muscles and yet they have been very successful. From the day he arrived I compared Ian to Vlade Divac, a player that could not jump high, was not full of big muscles, and yet he was very effective. I still see potential for Ian as that type of a player.

Ian has already been an effective rebounder and defender in several recent games because he blocks out and he is clever and keeps his hands up on defense. I have no doubt that he will have some games where he struggles like any young big man but he is progressing and improving.

I will say again that you have some weird bias against this young man that I cannot understand. Your comment that he plays because we do not have Okafor on the bench is a ridiculous joke. There are just a handful of those type players every year and most go directly to the NBA. The remaining few are heavily recruited by every program in the nation. So if your standard is that we must have that type of player and that we are settling for mediocrity if we like and support Ian then you don't have a clue as to what is possible. Its just like the MU fans who say that Lisch is no good and overrated.

They, like you, have an bias that prevents them from seeing the real positives in the player. I will say it again and again. Give the kid a break!

[guest]

"I will say again that you have some weird bias against this young man that I cannot understand."

Of course he does. He has always cut down the bigs....why?

Because B-Roy is 5'9" and will always be jealous of what the bigs have that he doesn't have. SIZE!!!!!!!!!!!

Get over it Roy.

[billiken_roy]

damn right i havent achieved what i can. but i am not a scholarshipped athlete either where other than my classroom achievements, nothing else but bettering myself in my sport is more important.

[billiken_roy]

at this time, i see nothing about ian that physically resembles divac. brad threw that comparison out to compare his supposed great passing ability when ian was recruited, but at this time, ian aint vlade divac at all.

if ian is insulted that i dont like the fact he gets pushed around and cant take the ball up strong when the average big man in the top programs can so be it. maybe he will work harder to show us how wrong i am. i hope so. he obviously has the tools to turn into something good. now show us.

btw, i have continuously said that i believe ian has potential and may turn out to be good. what you all are missing apparently is that i am talking about right now. imo, you have to go back to barentine to find a billiken starting center with less on court effectiveness. again, i think he might turn out to be good, he has shown glimmers of potential. but to heap "great" and "good" on him is just wrong. his best game is 13 pts and 8 rebs vs southern miss. southern miss a team that played 5 guards most of the game. one would think that a good or great center would have went wild in that matchup scenario. instead 13 and 8. that should be his average for the season if he is playing 30 minutes a night. until that is his ho hum day at the office, i will stick with my view.

[billiken_roy]

when we get a big that can actually control the lane and be the man scoring, then i wont cut him down. but the fact i am 5'9" has nothing to do with it. that might rank as one of the stupidest reasoning i have ever seen.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I just read in our local Biloxi paper that Jasper was just thrown off the So Miss team. Eustauchy (sp) was quoted "Johnson after a team meeting just could not get it". Apparently he did not care for Jasper's defensive intensity (seems we heard that before).

BTW, seems Eustauchy is a real tough coach. He's thrown about 5 players off the team since the season started. For tonight's game (I believe it is aganist Tulane) he will only be dressing 8 players.

[Billikan]

There might never have been a more ridiculous comparison on this board than you statement that compares him to Barentine. Ian is MUCH better than Barentine right now. He is MUCH BETTER than Heinrich was as a sophomore. He is much better on offense that Kenny Brown was as a junior and probably as a senior. YOur insulting, demeaning comments about a young man who is trying hard and has made a real difference to the teams competitiveness since he was made the starter make me sick. I am finished with you and your ignorant comments. Maybe you will wake up some day but I doubt it.

[billiken_roy]

i have never been a eustauchy fan. i believe he liked to "use" the barton county connection in the past as well. look at it this way, throwing the players off the team is a good way to be able to recruit his team fastest. now that there is no longer a 5/8 rule, he can go out and get 6 barton county kids right away.

[billiken_roy]

i wont disagree about him possibly being as good if not better than heinrich as a sophomore. i hope your standards are higher than chris heinrich though.

as to kenny brown, the only aspect statistically that ian vouyoukas exceeded kenny brown in was free throw % and that isnt by much. and we all know how bad kenny shot free throws. i would have actually hoped that ian outdistanced that free throw percentage by much more.

as to the rest of the applicable stats, kenny shot 47% and 55% from the field his two years at slu. ian currently is shooting at a 40% clip. kenny averaged 7 ppg and 6 rpg both years. ian currently is averaging 4.2 ppg and 4.9 rpg.

was scares me is that you are using the likes of kenny brown as a standard to compare! imo, kenny brown's only redeeming quality that kept me from ripping into him as well was his defense. he proved he was a stellar inside defender. however, on the offensive side, you wont find me bragging about his game and his rebounding stats were nothing to brad about either. yet, even kenny brown had better numbers than ian thus far.

again, my point is not that ian wont be a good player down the road. i hope and think he will improve. my point is that we shouldnt be labeling adequate as "great" or "good". he is not at the level that can be a part of a top 25-50 program.

[Major Majerus]

Your stats are no good in your last post. Kenny was the show for his two years, but Ian has just started getting the PT. Do the stats for minutes played, or better yet, let's table this discussion until end of season - then Ian will have meaningful stats - although he will still have 2 years to play while Kenny put up his numbers as a jr and sr.

[billiken_roy]

and as i have said in every one of my ian posts, in the long run ian may be better. my whole argument is that he isnt there yet and for the time period to date, is not better than what brown did.

btw, i didnt bring the brown comparison up here. billikan did when he said that ian was better right now than brown ever was. and for that such statement, the stats are accurate.

[Billikan]

I said he was better offensively and he is and will be much better before he finishes. In his first year Kenny Brown was a turnover waiting to happen and he missed multiple layups. He was a little better the second year but his real value was low post defense and he was terrific in that role.

As to the stats, the point is that Kenny was a full time starter from day one. If you look at the games where Ian has been getting significant minutes over the last 6 games he is averaging 7.8 rebounds a game-- a very respectable number.