Looks Like The JUCO Gravy Train @ Barton ....

[Taj79]

... County Community College has run dry.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...coach+at+Barton

Let's see ... Pulley, who our sources say flunked out at SLU, still had 21 credit hours in the bank at his transfer to BCCC. If I remember, he left after one year. So he completed at least 7 courses (3 hours per) with what, a C average (don't know if D's work and are transferable ... maybe so). So seven courses in a year. Then he goes to BCCC for one year and has 70 hours of transferable credit. That is one hard-working dude! Even if you say that of the 70, 21 are his old SLU stuff, that's 49 credit hours in a year. divided by two, that's 25 a semester. Divided by three, giving him a summer as well, that's a more representative 16 hours a semester with two of those semester's having basketball activity going on. Anyone else see a credibility gap here?

I could not care less about Enrique. But Pulley's story is interesting. There is a reason these places exist and I think it is quite evident why in this story. To clean up the college game(s), I would think these farces have to be one of the first things to go. No wonder the idea of "I'm a prima donna" is so rampant today. Things like Sean Banks happen long before the suspensions occur.

Looks like college athletics are going the same way my pro athletics have gone ... just another competitor for my disposable entertainment income. Yeah, rah, team!

[billiken_roy]

however taj, accepting the transcripts from barton county student athletes (and i use student loosely) that have received these amazing number of college credits in impossible time frames is not academic fraud.

[cheesycow]

How could the University of Missouri choose to not accept credits for courses they would accept from any other student?

If you want to point fingers at a dirty school, it's kU's board of regents that governs barton.

[aj_arete]

but I've consistently stated that academic fraud occurred at Barton Community College and not Mizzou. Now Mizzou might not have shown the best of judgment in accepting these credits, but in strict legal terms, they have not been accused of commiting academic fraud.

[SLUWX]

It's the KANSAS board of regents that govern Barton, not KU's board of regents. Be careful with your associations.

Are you saying that all students come out of Barton with all these credits? I would be willing to bet that Pulley's number of credits coming out of Barton were much greater than anyone else coming out of there. This is a under-funded community college. I am sure any payment or other considerations from Mizzou or any other school would make it easy for the school to turn it's head.

[kshoe]

you are correct but from a common sense level you are so wrong its comical. Mizzou SHOULD have known Rickey's 24 credit hours in one summer were bogus. Mizzou SHOULD have known that Pulley couldn't have possibly achieved all those credits on his own.

I believe the NCAA knew that technically they couldn't nail Mizzou for accepting all those transfers so what they did was drag out the investigation (arguably hurting their recruitment of TH and their on-court play last season) and then gave them significant punishment of no off campus recruiting for what were for relatively minor violations (meals for recruits, etc.).

Do you really believe MU would have accepted any other students that had the academic records of Pully and Clemmons? MU most definitely can choose to accept whatever credits they want. Fact is, MU chose to bury their heads in the sand and act as if they didn't know any better when every person with an ounce of common sense could tell it was wrong and those credits weren't legitimate. The fact you continue to defend that position is really sad.

[3star_recruit]

Clemons committed to Mizzou during the juco basketball season, 24 hours short of his associate's degree. Then during the summer he miraculously accumulates these 24 hrs. The Barton coach had nothing to gain by orchestrating this academic fraud if Mizzou was not paying him off.

[kshoe]

(can't believe I actually said that). Legally, Mizzou is ok, but morally they cheated big time.

[cheesycow]

Let me explain, because I think i was a bit vague.

Suppose Mizzou says it will accept these credits from Barton (or other community colleges):

College Algebra

Biology

Physics

American Government

Physical Education

Chemistry

Economics

Statistics

Calculus

American History

It cannot then say "we cannot accept these courses if you have done too many at once." It's not a case by case thing- certain credits are accepted, certain credits aren't. You can't pick and choose which ones to accept after setting precedent.

[cheesycow]

I don't think it's that cut and dry.

[lefty]

this morning. Evey course he took at Barton was a Physical Education course. I could do those in 8 weeks in my sleep.

[3star_recruit]

Frank just summarized what we were saying on this board 6 months ago.

[lefty]

I thought it was interesting that someone from SLU called Barton about getting Pulley in there. BTW, who was the recruit who committed to SLU and did their first year at Barton ?

[Trich]

I hope you know the answer about who committed to SLU but spent their first year at Barton because I would like to know also. Please share that information.

I do know that Whaley committed to Mizzou but spent his first year at Barton then ended up at Cincy.

[Taj79]

... ever coming to SLU with three years of eligibility and that was Charles Newberry coming from Belleville (I think). I also believe Luther Burden went to a JUCO in Kansas but don't recall all the specifics. And then there is my favorite ... Tyrone Caswell ... but I can't recall all the stuff on him because his time was so sort. Other than I will always remember the Sporting News proclaiming him as the best recruit in CUSA that year. Or the GMW. Wherever we were at the time.

So who is the recruit you ask about?

[Taj79]

nm

[billiken_roy]

why not? why cant every transcript be analyzed for what it is? why cant an admissions counselor look at the fact that an inordinate amount of credits were earned over a short time frame and question that regardless of what classes they were? i would bet that saint louis university's admissions people would question that. in fact, i would bet be it not a mi$$ouri basketball recruit, i would bet that mi$$ouri admissions questions that.

[cheesycow]

That's just not how it works. There are thousands of transcripts that would have to be individually analyzed. That's why transferrable credits are predetermined in the first place. I'm confident it's the same everywhere.

[billiken_roy]

either $nyder or odom or some unversity third party, paid this ryan wolf guy to fix the transcripts. i.e. there is your academic fraud since they would have been a party to induce the infraction. wolf wasnt doing it for the fun of it. it was all about his getting money for his actions. and you know the money didnt come from whaley, clemens or pulley. so who would pay to fix those transcripts if not the school those players were going to go to? scott peterson is going to death row for less circumstancial evidence.

[billiken_roy]

we were told last nite at the billiken club meeting that before the slu compliance department even gets the records of incoming slu student athletes, that actually three separate independent personal audits of a prospective student athletes transcript and records are personally completed before any prospective athlete can be formally allowed to attend saint louis university. so no it apparently is not the same everywhere.

[SLUWX]

It isn't the same everywhere. I had to fight to have 3 credits from Neosho County Community College (same system as Barton) for College Algebra accepted at SLU. After they finally accepted the credits, they still wouldn't accept the grade.

[Basketbill]

shed a big Halogen light on the subject

[billiken_roy]

i went thru the same thing getting one summer class from bac (now swic) accepted back in 1979. to imply this stuff is just routinely rubber stamped is crazy. and i seriously doubt even mi$$ouri does that regardless of the many more number of transcripts to sift through. it is a hell of a lot more likely that someone from slu "walked" the pulley and clemons transcripts through the system than to imply that it is like that for any transfer transcript. at least i hope so. if not, it sure doesnt say much for the overall integrity of good ole mi$$ouri does it. right now i am of the belief that only the basketball program is corrupt. but what you are implying cheesy is that either the whole mi$$ouri academic admissions office is corrupt or incompetent. which is it?

[Taj79]

.. with three credits in Philosphy transferring from Penn State to SLU ... and PSU ain't no JUCO. They took the credits eventually (it would have been much better had I negotiated with SLU BEFORE the summer course instead of AFTER but you live, you learn) but they never took the grade and added it to the overall GPA. With all the scrutiny possible from the NCAA and the overall shadiness of JUCO operations to begin with, if I were a compliance director anywhere worth my salt, attention to JUCOs ...especially athletic JUCOS ... needs huge attention. Morally, things are definitely off here.

I would like to close this thought with the note .. when I started this thread, I had no intention of making it a Mizzou thread. I only mentioned Enrique in passing. My intentions were to point the incredulous finger at the Pulley situation because he was "ours" at one time.

[MUTGR]

had Clemons already signed with MU before enrolling at Barton? If so, I'd be more inclined to buy into your theory. If not, I think it's more likely that questionable kids simply go there because they know Barton is a place where they can miraculously qualify. The reason I say that is there were quite a number of schools recruiting Rickey, as I recall, including Louisville. I remember it being announced that Clemons chose Missouri over Louisville. Now, if Missouri somehow placed him there, that is more questionable in my eyes.

No telling what Wolf's motivation was. Maybe he's being paid under the table, maybe he's just sleezy and likes getting major talent with issues through his team so he can rub elbows and be wined and dined by major college coaches. After all, a whole lot of questionable kids have gone through there and have not ended up at Missouri.

The whole thing doesn't pass the smell test, but I'm not sure you can tie it into MU directly based on what is public, unless you know something else. What you are calling "circumstantial evidence" is pretty much just your theory at this point.