slu72 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I know we've discussed starting lineups for next year, which is really a moot point as RM subs often and quick. But looking ahead is it realistic to see us having an effective 10 man rotation next year? It would be sweet seeing wave after wave of fresh talented players coming off the bench to create matchup problems and tempo changes. Like someone said, we could see us in a Villanova type set w/ 4 guards if WR plays. JB, MM, KM, DE (kind of guard sized) and WR. Or go big like RM's old Utah teams. RL, CE, BC/DE, KM, JB/KC. RM's got a lot of pieces to play his game of chess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I know we've discussed starting lineups for next year, which is really a moot point as RM subs often and quick. But looking ahead is it realistic to see us having an effective 10 man rotation next year? It would be sweet seeing wave after wave of fresh talented players coming off the bench to create matchup problems and tempo changes. Like someone said, we could see us in a Villanova type set w/ 4 guards if WR plays. JB, MM, KM, DE (kind of guard sized) and WR. Or go big like RM's old Utah teams. RL, CE, BC/DE, KM, JB/KC. RM's got a lot of pieces to play his game of chess. -let's see who is on the roster and then go to who is going to play -would be a change for RM to play that many as he has said he prefers an 8 man rotation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Next year's playing time will also be affected by the margins of our wins. For instance, I am assuming both KM and WR return, assuming our entire roster returns along with JB and Manning and assuming we play the same teams next year. And yes, 1 or even 2 kids may end up redshirting but still there will be a logjam for minutes per game. In the above scenario, our win totals should go from our current 11 wins to possble 20 to 25 wins b/c we will be a much better team. At the same time, I would also expect the point totals/margin of victories will be substantially greater as well. This year, we had blow out wins against Rockhurst (27 points), Tenn State (28 points) Northeastern (22 points), St. Joe (26 points) and Chicago State (38 points) but then had closer wins over IUPUI (3 points), Jacksonville (5 points), Fordham (13 points), UMass (16 points), Charlotte (5 points) and Duquesne (11 points). The close losses, of course, would not only turn into wins, but possibly double digit wins. In short, if we not only win next year, but win with bigger margins, RM will give out more minutes to more people. While RM may restrict his bench to 8 players in the close games, players 9, 10, 11 will get more minutes as RM will be able to take our starters out thereby keeping them more fresh for the end of the season. IMO, I would be shocked if RM used only 8 players the first half of the season. Down the stretch next year in Conference play, I could see RM shortening the bench, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notfairweather Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I know we've discussed starting lineups for next year, which is really a moot point as RM subs often and quick. But looking ahead is it realistic to see us having an effective 10 man rotation next year? It would be sweet seeing wave after wave of fresh talented players coming off the bench to create matchup problems and tempo changes. Like someone said, we could see us in a Villanova type set w/ 4 guards if WR plays. JB, MM, KM, DE (kind of guard sized) and WR. Or go big like RM's old Utah teams. RL, CE, BC/DE, KM, JB/KC. RM's got a lot of pieces to play his game of chess. I love the fact that we have, in some way, shape, form or puzzle, 2 potential starting groups. They can sub in for one another and we won't lose our momentum. Where we could lose three point shooting or size we could make up for in better slashers or more athletic players. Each rotation will obviously have its strengths and weakness. Barring some unnatural disaster, RM will have to appreciate the fact that he doesn't have to look at his bench and say "Who the eff am I supposed to play now?" Also, I see that many people would like to see RL and WR start together. I'm not a fan of that idea considering that both players' conditioning has been and potentially will be very suspect. We'll have our two tallest guys extremely winded 3-4 minutes into the game/possession and RM'll have to potentially make some substitutions that will take us from quite big to moderately big when he won't have to do that by not having RL and WR play at the same time. I'm not saying they will never play together, but I see that potentially messing up the rotation for the remainder of the half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Also, I see that many people would like to see RL and WR start together. I'm not a fan of that idea considering that both players' conditioning has been and potentially will be very suspect. We'll have our two tallest guys extremely winded 3-4 minutes into the game/possession and RM'll have to potentially make some substitutions that will take us from quite big to moderately big when he won't have to do that by not having RL and WR play at the same time. I'm not saying they will never play together, but I see that potentially messing up the rotation for the remainder of the half. Starting the 2 together might have some issues, but I don't think conditioning will be an issue for RL. I've been pleasantly surprised by his energy level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Incredible speculation. I know you all have a lot of fun with this but we still have a long, long way to go. Will Majerus and WR both be back? Odds are less than 50-50 that both are back IMO. If WR does not play, then we will get 16-18 wins, give or take. If RM leaves, even if WR gets back in, it might be even worse. These kids came to play for Majerus: a current freshman or two would probably transfer. Or three. And probably Manning would opt to go somewhere else. I hope they both return (along with KM, of course). We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Incredible speculation. I know you all have a lot of fun with this but we still have a long, long way to go. Will Majerus and WR both be back? Odds are less than 50-50 that both are back IMO. If WR does not play, then we will get 16-18 wins, give or take. If RM leaves, even if WR gets back in, it might be even worse. These kids came to play for Majerus: a current freshman or two would probably transfer. Or three. And probably Manning would opt to go somewhere else. I hope they both return (along with KM, of course). We shall see. Glad to see you're not speculating at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Glad to see you're not speculating at all. You want to bet me all 10 of those players in the "rotation" & RM are back? Five large? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You want to bet me all 10 of those players in the "rotation" & RM are back? Five large? -settle down francis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 -settle down francis Clever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You want to bet me all 10 of those players in the "rotation" & RM are back? Five large? Why do you want to bet 'five large' that we will either be losing a key player or our head coach in the offseason? Seems kind of odd that a SLU fan would want to make that kind of bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You want to bet me all 10 of those players in the "rotation" & RM are back? Five large? You accuse everyone of "incredible speculation" and then you spew a fair amount of speculation. Can we make it $5 bajillion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Why do you want to bet 'five large' that we will either be losing a key player or our head coach in the offseason? Seems kind of odd that a SLU fan would want to make that kind of bet. The discussion was that 10 specific players and RM will all be on the team in 2011-2012. I was merely pointing out that the odds of all of them coming back are not ironclad to say the least, and that I have concern about both RM and WR. The guy mocked me, so I countered that if he is so confident that all 10 players and RM will return, then he should put his money where his mouth is... making a point. I clearly indicated that I hoped that all 10 and RM will be back, even though I think it may not happen, and that if RM goes we will have further erosion. Read it; and you, get off my back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The discussion was that 10 specific players and RM will all be on the team in 2011-2012. I was merely pointing out that the odds of all of them coming back are not ironclad to say the least, and that I have concern about both RM and WR. The guy mocked me, so I countered that if he is so confident that all 10 players and RM will return, then he should put his money where his mouth is... making a point. I clearly indicated that I hoped that all 10 and RM will be back, even though I think it may not happen, and that if RM goes we will have further erosion. Read it; and you, get off my back. Ahhh, sorry. I totally should have read that from your posts. Instead I read it that you are willing to bet money that either the coach or a key player is not going to come back. Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension. And moytoy12 totally mocked you by pointing out, correctly, that you called out others for speculating on the future while at the same time speculating on the future of WR and RM. How dare he point that out and mock you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You accuse everyone of "incredible speculation" and then you spew a fair amount of speculation. Can we make it $5 bajillion? You and the rest did the speculation. I pointed out that there are plenty of possibilites that all 10 (and RM) might not be there. I made a counter argument, so it is not speculation. Big difference. I do not really want to bet, I hope they are all back. But I am not optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You and the rest did the speculation. I pointed out that there are plenty of possibilites that all 10 (and RM) might not be there. I made a counter argument, so it is not speculation. Big difference. I do not really want to bet, I hope they are all back. But I am not optimistic. Your counter argument involves some pretty good speculating. You speculate that we will win 16-18 games (give or take) without WR. You speculate on the odds of both RM and WR coming back. You speculate that 2-4 players would transfer. Other than that, you're right, you didn't do any speculatin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You and the rest did the speculation. I pointed out that there are plenty of possibilites that all 10 (and RM) might not be there. I made a counter argument, so it is not speculation. Big difference. I do not really want to bet, I hope they are all back. But I am not optimistic. Just because you're making a counter argument doesn't mean it's not speculation. "I think we'll win 25 games next year." "Well, I don't know, the earth could blow up before then." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Your counter argument involves some pretty good speculating. You speculate that we will win 16-18 games (give or take) without WR. You speculate on the odds of both RM and WR coming back. You speculate that 2-4 players would transfer. Other than that, you're right, you didn't do any speculatin'. Nice try, but when someone presents longshot speculation ("all 10 players and RM will be back", "the Dow Jones will be 16,000 next week") and another points out that it is unlikely and presents some of the potential risks, it is not speculation, it is part of the counter argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Incredible speculation. I know you all have a lot of fun with this but we still have a long, long way to go. Will Majerus and WR both be back? Odds are less than 50-50 that both are back IMO. If WR does not play, then we will get 16-18 wins, give or take. If RM leaves, even if WR gets back in, it might be even worse. These kids came to play for Majerus: a current freshman or two would probably transfer. Or three. And probably Manning would opt to go somewhere else. I hope they both return (along with KM, of course). We shall see. 16-18 wins eh? So you think next year's team will be worse than last year's team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 16-18 wins eh? So you think next year's team will be worse than last year's team? Last yr (2009-2010)? Without WR, yes, 16-18 wins next year, even if RM and everyone else returns, assume the schedule is roughly equal to this yrs. That is how big WR affects the team. (but now we are speculating... previously, it was part of the counter-argument from the speculation that was earlier presented) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Last yr (2010-2011)? Without WR, yes, 16-18 wins next year, even if RM and everyone else returns. (but now we are speculating... previously, it was part of the counter-argument from the speculation that was earlier presented) I meant last year like 2009-2010. CBI finals. 23 wins or whatever we had. I just feel like we'll be better next year. We get KM back and we have a talented group of sophomores with a full year of valuable experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I meant last year like 2009-2010. CBI finals. 23 wins or whatever we had. I just feel like we'll be better next year. We get KM back and we have a talented group of sophomores with a full year of valuable experience. I changed my response to reflect '09-'10. Your opinion has merit, but my opinion is that the way he played in '09-'10, WR had a HUGE impact on the overall team. KM is a jewel, but a BIG like Willie makes a ton of difference, and without WR, we will get from 10-11 (TBD) wins this yr to 16-17-18 next year. Again, we are speculating, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I love the fact that we have, in some way, shape, form or puzzle, 2 potential starting groups. They can sub in for one another and we won't lose our momentum. Where we could lose three point shooting or size we could make up for in better slashers or more athletic players. Each rotation will obviously have its strengths and weakness. Barring some unnatural disaster, RM will have to appreciate the fact that he doesn't have to look at his bench and say "Who the eff am I supposed to play now?" Also, I see that many people would like to see RL and WR start together. I'm not a fan of that idea considering that both players' conditioning has been and potentially will be very suspect. We'll have our two tallest guys extremely winded 3-4 minutes into the game/possession and RM'll have to potentially make some substitutions that will take us from quite big to moderately big when he won't have to do that by not having RL and WR play at the same time. I'm not saying they will never play together, but I see that potentially messing up the rotation for the remainder of the half. Mike Anderson likes to sub everybody out about 4-6 minutes into the first half of every game and it generally leads to a huge drop in momentum. A 10 man rotation is really effective in the 2nd half (although maybe that's because of mizzou's pace, idk). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Mike Anderson likes to sub everybody out about 4-6 minutes into the first half of every game and it generally leads to a huge drop in momentum. A 10 man rotation is really effective in the 2nd half (although maybe that's because of mizzou's pace, idk). Anderson will take the Arkansas job if it opens, which is likely. MU has been overrated all yr, they were not exposed until recently, they have a very weak front line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notfairweather Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Mike Anderson likes to sub everybody out about 4-6 minutes into the first half of every game and it generally leads to a huge drop in momentum. A 10 man rotation is really effective in the 2nd half (although maybe that's because of mizzou's pace, idk). Oh, I would definitely not want a Mike Anderson-style mass substitution 5 for 5, but the group that wouldn't start has potential to be just as effective as the starting group. Not that starting really matters, especially in college basketball. Injuries aside, Willie gets his act right, and that I personally don't see anyone transferring, RM has a good amount of flexibility in his combinations and match-ups next year. As has been stated before on this board, we're going to be a more experienced team that has learned from the mistakes in close losses and close wins and that doesn't crap their pants when RM rips them a new one. We'll have more guys who want the ball when the chips are down and who know what to do with it. It surely can be frustrating as a coach and especially as a player to have 10 court-worthy players and good people on your team, and not enough minutes to go around. It's going to be a dog fight for minutes next year, but if the intra-team competition stays positive, and they have everyone back, SLU men's bball 2011-2012 could be a dangerous team. Heck, maybe we'll make some free throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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