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OT: Professional Soccer in St. Louis


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Skip cannot name a better all around program than Duke last decade +.

Dominated.

That of course would depend on one's definition of better. Past 10 years? Multiple programs can match Duke's NCAA titles and better them in Final Fours etc...

Is this the part where I say owned or dominated or 6th grader or loser or ...?

But I can say, there was no team like the UCLA Bruins of the 1970's. Boy I tell ya.

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Skip cannot name a better all around program than Duke last decade +.

Dominated.

I was going to ask if you were slow, but I realize that would be silly as I actually know the answer to that question. At what point did I say Duke wasn't a great program? What I said was I don't like them. I think Dukies have a bad odor that seems to follow them around.

But hell, making a statement that I never disagreed with is about as close as you'll come to dominating anyone, so I'll give it to you.

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You've jumped to MLS here. Your original topic was an entirely different thing. Soccer isn't soccer across the board. Baseball isn't baseball across the board. MLB is different from A ball etc...

MLS contract negotiations are currently ongoing to replace older dated contracts. New teams have been added etc...lots of changes since the old ones. Also, with tv revenue, that doesn't count local tv revenue of which some teams previously were doing $4-5 million...to go along with their other sources of revenue. The new tv deals will double to triple previous National tv revenue.

American Broadcasters paid triple totals for European League tv access than for MLS. And, immediately ratings became higher for those telecasts than for MLS despite brutal start times and weekday games.

It's important to break down one league at a time and its specifics. Example, local tv revenue other revenue, all four National tv outlets for MLS, etc...

I "jumped to MLS" because I was responding to a SPECIFIC question from clock tower. How in the hell is that "jumping" to anything? If you're going to pick a fight, at least get a fact or two straight.

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That of course would depend on one's definition of better. Past 10 years? Multiple programs can match Duke's NCAA titles and better them in Final Fours etc...

Is this the part where I say owned or dominated or 6th grader or loser or ...?

But I can say, there was no team like the UCLA Bruins of the 1970's. Boy I tell ya.

I asked which team for the last 10-15-20 yrs or so, give or take, would you like to have represented SLU better than Duke? Several times. I clearly included scholastic requirements and overal "values", not just wins.

We would't want Huggins here, would we? A winner, but a cheater and a scumbag.

At least read the thread before you ridicule, Saul.

Skip cannot name a better program to represent SLU. He just avoids the question, throws back infantile insults until one of his companions like you jumps in with an attempt to deflect the real question and get him off the hook. He is NOT off the hook. Name the team!

(Also, your analogies remind me of the sportscaster in TV with the awful rug.)

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I asked which team for the last 10-15-20 yrs or so, give or take, would you like to have represented SLU better than Duke? Several times. I clearly included scholastic requirements and overal "values", not just wins.

We would't want Huggins here, would we? A winner, but a cheater and a scumbag.

At least read the thread before you ridicule, Saul.

Skip cannot name a better program to represent SLU. He just avoids the question, throws back infantile insults until one of his companions like you jumps in with an attempt to deflect the real question and get him off the hook. He is NOT off the hook. Name the team!

(Also, your analogies remind me of the sportscaster in TV with the awful rug.)

Why do I need to pick another team to have represented SLU? I've enjoyed being a SLU fan and did answer that I don't want to pick another team.

Do you only like the best teams? If you like the Blues, is it fair to say you'd have rather had the Red Wings as your team instead? Or can you just like the Blues with all their ups and downs despite the fact the Red Wings have been better.

You love Duke and are just upset because I and others don't have the same love you do. I said Duke had better results, though I thought it was obvious and didn't need to be said, I said it anyway.

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I "jumped to MLS" because I was responding to a SPECIFIC question from clock tower. How in the hell is that "jumping" to anything? If you're going to pick a fight, at least get a fact or two straight.

In your very first post of a thread I believe you started...you jump around from men's minor league soccer to women's soccer and somehow come to a conclusion about the difficulties of making money in the sport of soccer.

I'm saying you cannot put all soccer in one sentence. I'm not going to put independent minor league baseball in the St. Louis area with the Cardinals.

The English Premier League for one example is a $3 billion league. The issue was and continues to be that people want to see all sports at their highest levels. Start up lower level leagues evolve over time, good, bad, and indifferent.

If you want to compare a 14 year old second tier professional men's soccer league, compare it to a 14 year old second tier professional men's soccer league.

I realize we live in a world of what have you done for me lately, but building a viable first tier American men's pro soccer league is a long term process. You may not like the growth or level of growth, but it's growing, teams. Sponsorship deals, revenues, team values, lux suites, salaries, etc...to become a sustainable, long term, viable league.

In terms of interest, people are interested. They are more interested in soccer at its highest levels. This thought is similar to fans of other sports. There are strategic things that can be done to improve upon MLS etc...which is a whole other discussion.

However, I'm not going to conclude the lack of interest and viability of soccer in general because of a lack of success of a women's league or lack of success of a minor league men's team. How's the Continental Basketball Association doing?

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I asked which team for the last 10-15-20 yrs or so, give or take, would you like to have represented SLU better than Duke? Several times. I clearly included scholastic requirements and overal "values", not just wins.

We would't want Huggins here, would we? A winner, but a cheater and a scumbag.

At least read the thread before you ridicule, Saul.

Skip cannot name a better program to represent SLU. He just avoids the question, throws back infantile insults until one of his companions like you jumps in with an attempt to deflect the real question and get him off the hook. He is NOT off the hook. Name the team!

(Also, your analogies remind me of the sportscaster in TV with the awful rug.)

You apparently have never taken "Sociology of basketball" at Duke, nor have you played the game "Count the Sociology majors" over the years at Duke Basketball. You also clearly have never been to a Duke practice. No coach in America drops more F-bombs than Coach K. Love those family values and my American Express Card. And not that it matters, many people would say UNC has achieved as much or more than Duke in the past 20 years.

Is this where I call you Saul?...or reference Frank C's hair?

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In your very first post of a thread I believe you started...you jump around from men's minor league soccer to women's soccer and somehow come to a conclusion about the difficulties of making money in the sport of soccer.

I'm saying you cannot put all soccer in one sentence. I'm not going to put independent minor league baseball in the St. Louis area with the Cardinals.

The English Premier League for one example is a $3 billion league. The issue was and continues to be that people want to see all sports at their highest levels. Start up lower level leagues evolve over time, good, bad, and indifferent.

If you want to compare a 14 year old second tier professional men's soccer league, compare it to a 14 year old second tier professional men's soccer league.

I realize we live in a world of what have you done for me lately, but building a viable first tier American men's pro soccer league is a long term process. You may not like the growth or level of growth, but it's growing, teams. Sponsorship deals, revenues, team values, lux suites, salaries, etc...to become a sustainable, long term, viable league.

In terms of interest, people are interested. They are more interested in soccer at its highest levels. This thought is similar to fans of other sports. There are strategic things that can be done to improve upon MLS etc...which is a whole other discussion.

However, I'm not going to conclude the lack of interest and viability of soccer in general because of a lack of success of a women's league or lack of success of a minor league men's team. How's the Continental Basketball Association doing?

So now you're jumping from my second post to my first post?

I'll take from this post that you acknowledge I wasn't jumping to anything when I answered the question from clock tower. If you have an issue with "jumping", take it up with him.

Here is my original post:

It looks like another team bites the dust. For having a pretty bad product on the field and very little hype, the attendance numbers weren't too bad IMO. I think it goes to show that it's very hard to make money in this sport, particularly in the lower levels. As a side note, I found it interesting that the women's pro soccer league is now down to 6 teams, all on the east coast. I guess the lack of interest was more than just a St. Louis issue.

As you can read from the first sentence, my topic is about pro soccer teams failing in St. Louis. In case you haven't noticed, there have been many over the past 35 years or so. Show me where I do a comparison to the EPL. Secondly, I typed that it's hard to make money at the lower levels. In your attempt to criticize my point you take the very same position.

If you want to say that moving from men's soccer to women's is "jumping" that can be debated. However, I DID post "as a side note" which would be viewed by most as a transition. (Good for you, from now on no one can address mulitple topics in one thread. I hope you try to police the rest of the topics as much as you do with soccer. How could the author of the article have possibly mentioned it? ;) )

In any case, there were some posts on here critical of area families not doing enough to support professional women's soccer. The learning here is that it wasn't simply a St. Louis issue. It looks like a nationwide issue.

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So now you're jumping from my second post to my first post?

I'll take from this post that you acknowledge I wasn't jumping to anything when I answered the question from clock tower. If you have an issue with "jumping", take it up with him.

Here is my original post:

It looks like another team bites the dust. For having a pretty bad product on the field and very little hype, the attendance numbers weren't too bad IMO. I think it goes to show that it's very hard to make money in this sport, particularly in the lower levels. As a side note, I found it interesting that the women's pro soccer league is now down to 6 teams, all on the east coast. I guess the lack of interest was more than just a St. Louis issue.

As you can read from the first sentence, my topic is about pro soccer teams failing in St. Louis. In case you haven't noticed, there have been many over the past 35 years or so. Show me where I do a comparison to the EPL. Secondly, I typed that it's hard to make money at the lower levels. In your attempt to criticize my point you take the very same position.

If you want to say that moving from men's soccer to women's is "jumping" that can be debated. However, I DID post "as a side note" which would be viewed by most as a transition. (Good for you, from now on no one can address mulitple topics in one thread. I hope you try to police the rest of the topics as much as you do with soccer. How could the author of the article have possibly mentioned it? ;) )

In any case, there were some posts on here critical of area families not doing enough to support professional women's soccer. The learning here is that it wasn't simply a St. Louis issue. It looks like a nationwide issue.

I don't think you are seeing the forest through the trees.

Now you are referencing other threads. You've questioned the interest of soccer on this board. Yet your examples don't include soccer at its highest levels.

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I don't think you are seeing the forest through the trees.

Now you are referencing other threads. You've questioned the interest of soccer on this board. Yet your examples don't include soccer at its highest levels.

I'm having trouble following you in this thread, with all of your jumping between the EPL, Continental Basketball, major and minor league baseball, etc. I started this thread about St. Louis soccer and then answered a question about MLS from clock tower. Why don't you stick to the topics and quit jumping around?

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Why do I need to pick another team to have represented SLU? I've enjoyed being a SLU fan and did answer that I don't want to pick another team.

Do you only like the best teams? If you like the Blues, is it fair to say you'd have rather had the Red Wings as your team instead? Or can you just like the Blues with all their ups and downs despite the fact the Red Wings have been better.

You love Duke and are just upset because I and others don't have the same love you do. I said Duke had better results, though I thought it was obvious and didn't need to be said, I said it anyway.

Because you took a shot at Coach K, said he paid players, out of nowhere, on a soccer thread. I merely asked you if you think so poorly of Duke, then what team do you think is better? You started it.

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I'm having trouble following you in this thread, with all of your jumping between the EPL, Continental Basketball, major and minor league baseball, etc. I started this thread about St. Louis soccer and then answered a question about MLS from clock tower. Why don't you stick to the topics and quit jumping around?

You referenced a minor league men's professional soccer team a women's pro league in your first post in this thread that you started. You continued to be the only one in this thread to even reference women's soccer. You even later reference other threads and comments made in those threads by people about women's soccer.

A+B does not equal z.

St. Louis soccer is easy to figure out. The ownership group did not have enough money to ease the concerns of MLS in order to get a team. This is entirely separate from women's soccer or other minor leagues of soccer for men, etc...no cross-over, no correlations, no conclusions, separate.

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You apparently have never taken "Sociology of basketball" at Duke, nor have you played the game "Count the Sociology majors" over the years at Duke Basketball. You also clearly have never been to a Duke practice. No coach in America drops more F-bombs than Coach K. Love those family values and my American Express Card. And not that it matters, many people would say UNC has achieved as much or more than Duke in the past 20 years.

Is this where I call you Saul?...or reference Frank C's hair?

Oh, dear! Coach K says the "F" word at basketball practice.

The sociology class for jocks is a myth, perpetrated by an anti-Duke nutcase who went to North Carolina, who spreads disinformation on the internet, the Duke kids laugh at him. He is a dweeb.

I can prove that with several actual athletes that attended in the early mid 2000's, though, let's fact it, you would not be interested.

Duke lowered it's standards for admission about last 4-5 yrs ago, finally, to get a competitive football team.

(back to soccer... 90 minutes, 1-0, random goal.. )

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Oh, dear! Coach K says the "F" word at basketball practice.

The sociology class for jocks is a myth, perpetrated by an anti-Duke nutcase who went to North Carolina, who spreads disinformation on the internet, the Duke kids laugh at him. He is a dweeb.

I can prove that with several actual athletes that attended in the early mid 2000's, though, let's fact it, you would not be interested.

Duke lowered it's standards for admission about last 4-5 yrs ago, finally, to get a competitive football team.

(back to soccer... 90 minutes, 1-0, random goal.. )

a myth? in what way? are you denying the major even existed or the fact that sociology was the basketball major of choice in the 90's and early 00's? williams, boozer, avery, brand, i believe were all sociology majors. williams graduated in 2.5 years while playing international ball in the summers and duke ball half of the rest of the year. for that to be possible, sociology major is either a joke or williams was a worthy rhodes scholar.

as to your proof, we arent really interested in the rest of the athletic dept which i agree is probably on the up and up. we are only talking about duke basketball. coincidentally, other than duke basketball, the rest of duke athletics hasnt been quite on the same success level has it?

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You referenced a minor league men's professional soccer team a women's pro league in your first post in this thread that you started. You continued to be the only one in this thread to even reference women's soccer. You even later reference other threads and comments made in those threads by people about women's soccer.

A+B does not equal z.

St. Louis soccer is easy to figure out. The ownership group did not have enough money to ease the concerns of MLS in order to get a team. This is entirely separate from women's soccer or other minor leagues of soccer for men, etc...no cross-over, no correlations, no conclusions, separate.

Not quite. I posted a link to an article that mentioned both. Blame the author if you like, not me. Then you went on to talk about EPL, minor league basketball, etc. Quit jumping around so much. And, sorry, soccer can be a topic in and of itself. Soccer in St. Louis can be a topic. The failings of several teams over the past 35 years can be a topic as well. Again, clock tower brought up MLS, not me. I didn't compare MLS with any other leagues in my first two posts. That's your thing.

Nice try, though.

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a myth? in what way? are you denying the major even existed or the fact that sociology was the basketball major of choice in the 90's and early 00's? williams, boozer, avery, brand, i believe were all sociology majors. williams graduated in 2.5 years while playing international ball in the summers and duke ball half of the rest of the year. for that to be possible, sociology major is either a joke or williams was a worthy rhodes scholar.

as to your proof, we arent really interested in the rest of the athletic dept which i agree is probably on the up and up. we are only talking about duke basketball. coincidentally, other than duke basketball, the rest of duke athletics hasnt been quite on the same success level has it?

Ken Spenner would disagree with this. Just ask him. Who's Ken Spenner? Uh er uh the Sociology professor and sometimes Chair of Duke's Sociology Dept who admitted Duke has offered a sports management minor within its Sociology Dept. And he has not denied the legions of higher profile Duke players who have majored in Sociology.

I don't have anything against Duke personally. Some here might. That's fine. I just enjoy conversing with MB73.

First it was 10 years, then 15, now 20...so would 6 Final Fours be better than 10? Ya know cuz no other school can compete with Duke's success in that time.

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Dammit, why do footes and courtside have to derail this thread by trying to keep it on topic? I would prefer to read the supposedly sober ramblings of MB73 on subjects such as Duke, Huggins, AP's age, NASL games from 35 years ago, the MVC and so forth. I also think he came up with his writing style by reading 'Push' by Sapphire. Pretty sure he is channeling Precious.

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Dammit, why do footes and courtside have to derail this thread by trying to keep it on topic? I would prefer to read the supposedly sober ramblings of MB73 on subjects such as Duke, Huggins, AP's age, NASL games from 35 years ago, the MVC and so forth. I also think he came up with his writing style be reading 'Push' by Sapphire. Pretty sure he is channeling Precious.

This thread was derailed the moment it started. :rolleyes:

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Not quite. I posted a link to an article that mentioned both. Blame the author if you like, not me. Then you went on to talk about EPL, minor league basketball, etc. Quit jumping around so much. And, sorry, soccer can be a topic in and of itself. Soccer in St. Louis can be a topic. The failings of several teams over the past 35 years can be a topic as well. Again, clock tower brought up MLS, not me. I didn't compare MLS with any other leagues in my first two posts. That's your thing.

Nice try, though.

None of these teams played soccer at or near its highest levels.

One of these was a women's league and team. I don't think anyone here is shocked that it didn't make it.

Another was a minor league men's team. Again I don't think anyone here is shocked it didn't make it.

There is plenty of interest in soccer in the U.S. as well as in St. Louis. But wait how could that be because a minor league men's team and women pro team didn't make it?

Interest in soccer isn't the issue.

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None of these teams played soccer at or near its highest levels.

One of these was a women's league and team. I don't think anyone here is shocked that it didn't make it.

Another was a minor league men's team. Again I don't think anyone here is shocked it didn't make it.

There is plenty of interest in soccer in the U.S. as well as in St. Louis. But wait how could that be because a minor league men's team and women pro team didn't make it?

Interest in soccer isn't the issue.

Hmmm, you are arguing against claims that I haven't made. Show me where I posted anything about interest in MLS in this thread, other than a lack of interest from investors to pay the expansion fee?

You should really stick to the topic and quit taing shots at statements that I haven't made. I DID post that it would be hard for a team to succeed financially based on the expansion fee, but that's a different point.

Keep trying. You're getting closer.

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Hmmm, you are arguing against claims that I haven't made. Show me where I posted anything about interest in MLS, other than a lack of interest from investors to pay the expansion fee?

You should really stick to the topic and quit taing shots at statements that I haven't made. I DID post that it would be hard for a team to succeed financially based on the expansion fee, but that's a different point.

Keep trying. You're getting closer.

Hmm...

On December 23rd 2010 you discussed the lack of interest in soccer in the U.S.

On December 24th, 2010 you compared MLS to the top handful of American Professional sports leagues of other sports.

Am I getting closer?

The search button is your friend.

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Because you took a shot at Coach K, said he paid players, out of nowhere, on a soccer thread. I merely asked you if you think so poorly of Duke, then what team do you think is better? You started it.

na na na na.

Actually, I wasn't taking a shot at Coach K. I was taking a shot at you and your nonsense.

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na na na na.

Actually, I wasn't taking a shot at Coach K. I was taking a shot at you and your nonsense.

Read the thread... I did not say anything about Duke. You did, out of nowhere.

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