Majerus Magic Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I think I would honestly rather talk about Mizzou than hear this crap about Duke again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 Are we really getting into an argument about Duke? Who cares? Yeah, and how on earth does being anti-Duke make someone a "left wing loonie" or right-winger for that matter? Duke got into the mix on Beal pretty late, and never seemed to be a major player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Duke got into the mix on Beal pretty late, and never seemed to be a major player. I was told by someone close to Beal that Duke was Beal's "dream school." Florida and Kansas were the two big schools that recruited Beal the hardest from the beginning. I don't think SLU recruited Beal very hard, but I can't blame the Billikens coaches for that because I don't know that there is much they could have done to make a difference when he was looking at schools like UF and KU that had recently won national championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I don't think SLU recruited Beal very hard, but I can't blame the Billikens coaches for that because I don't know that there is much they could have done to make a difference when he was looking at schools like UF and KU that had recently won national championships. i have to agree completely with nate on the above. and i agree with rickma's approach. in the case of a basketball players the likes of beal, you take a run upfront, and see if there is any interest in slu for reasons not basketball (i.e. geography, a personal tie to the school, a want for a slu academic major, etc) if there is none, no sense in even wasting any time when the kid dreams of cbs sports, sunshine, easy academics, cheerleaders espn, and/or the nba. personally i applaud rickma for getting out of the way on this. it would have been a doomed waste of recruiting manpower especially considering the way the ncaa monitors staff recruiting days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I was told by someone close to Beal that Duke was Beal's "dream school." Florida and Kansas were the two big schools that recruited Beal the hardest from the beginning. I don't think SLU recruited Beal very hard, but I can't blame the Billikens coaches for that because I don't know that there is much they could have done to make a difference when he was looking at schools like UF and KU that had recently won national championships. -nate, then why not attend the "dream school"? this is curious -i apologize to the Board for my duke comment that started the debate , i did not remember prior threads containing this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Yeah, and how on earth does being anti-Duke make someone a "left wing loonie" or right-winger for that matter? Duke got into the mix on Beal pretty late, and never seemed to be a major player. It was the "making up facts" thing, not the "Duke hater" thing that I cited to call him a left wing loonie. He probably is not, but left wing loonies tend to grab one small tidbit and make it all encompassing and then flood the communication channels with it until a lot of people who do not do their homework belive it. He said all Duke athletes take sociology, etc, he heard that somewhere, throws it out all the time, not true at all. So maybe he is not a left wing loonie, but acts like one when it comes to Duke IMO. The question is, "why"? Seriously, so many fans HATE Duke, it is funny in some ways, pathetic in others, cannot figure out why, in some ways I think it is a somewhat fascinating phenomenon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I was told by someone close to Beal that Duke was Beal's "dream school." Florida and Kansas were the two big schools that recruited Beal the hardest from the beginning. I don't think SLU recruited Beal very hard, but I can't blame the Billikens coaches for that because I don't know that there is much they could have done to make a difference when he was looking at schools like UF and KU that had recently won national championships. So I'm guessing Duke never offered then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 I was told by someone close to Beal that Duke was Beal's "dream school." Florida and Kansas were the two big schools that recruited Beal the hardest from the beginning. I don't think SLU recruited Beal very hard, but I can't blame the Billikens coaches for that because I don't know that there is much they could have done to make a difference when he was looking at schools like UF and KU that had recently won national championships. That's why SLU should have been the first one after him. Don't let the big players come in and get in his ear first. Obviously SLU can't make the pitch those two schools can but if SLU's coaches take their pitch to him first, that can be a big difference, especially when SLU is in his home city. Is the reason SLU didn't hit harder from the start because of the coaching transition? I know the timing was probably relatively close between Beal's blowing up and Majerus' staff taking over. I still think hitting the big local prospect hard should have been one of the first orders of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 i have to agree completely with nate on the above. and i agree with rickma's approach. in the case of a basketball players the likes of beal, you take a run upfront, and see if there is any interest in slu for reasons not basketball (i.e. geography, a personal tie to the school, a want for a slu academic major, etc) if there is none, no sense in even wasting any time when the kid dreams of cbs sports, sunshine, easy academics, cheerleaders espn, and/or the nba. personally i applaud rickma for getting out of the way on this. it would have been a doomed waste of recruiting manpower especially considering the way the ncaa monitors staff recruiting days. For the record, Beal did visit the Saint Louis U. campus and took a look. I saw Beal compete in SLU's team camp with his Chaminade team before his freshman year, when he was a sub-6 foot shooting guard who spent most of his time shooting from the perimeter. This was not long after Majerus got the job and got his coaching staff in place. SLU probably should have offered Beal at that point, but there were definitely questions about what kind of prospect he would be down the road. I told Beal's father at that event that Bradley would be a good prospect if he grew a few inches -- both his older brothers were in the 6-3 to 6-5 range -- but I didn't think Bradley would blow up the way he has. He did things as a sophomore a year ago that I've never seen high school kids do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 It was the "making up facts" thing, not the "Duke hater" thing that I cited to call him a left wing loonie. He probably is not, but left wing loonies tend to grab one small tidbit and make it all encompassing and then flood the communication channels with it until a lot of people who do not do their homework belive it. He said all Duke athletes take sociology, etc, he heard that somewhere, throws it out all the time, not true at all. So maybe he is not a left wing loonie, but acts like one when it comes to Duke IMO. The question is, "why"? Seriously, so many fans HATE Duke, it is funny in some ways, pathetic in others, cannot figure out why, in some ways I think it is a somewhat fascinating phenomenon. Your argument makes no sense at all. Why on earth would you try to politicize an anti-Duke comment? Please keep it basketball-related, or yet another relevant thread with some good conversation going on is going to get closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 It was the "making up facts" thing, not the "Duke hater" thing that I cited to call him a left wing loonie. He probably is not, but left wing loonies tend to grab one small tidbit and make it all encompassing and then flood the communication channels with it until a lot of people who do not do their homework belive it. He said all Duke athletes take sociology, etc, he heard that somewhere, throws it out all the time, not true at all. So maybe he is not a left wing loonie, but acts like one when it comes to Duke IMO. The question is, "why"? Seriously, so many fans HATE Duke, it is funny in some ways, pathetic in others, cannot figure out why, in some ways I think it is a somewhat fascinating phenomenon. -why the need to call other posters names? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 So I'm guessing Duke never offered then? Duke offered. So did North Carolina, I believe, but UNC was also recruiting an in-state player at Beal's position in the same class so Beal said he wasn't interested. I think it came down to the two coaches who recruited him the hardest, Billy Donovan and Bill Self, and also the fact that Florida has a commitment from another guard in Beal's class, Austin Rivers, who is also one of the top players in the country. The interesting thing will be whether or not Rivers ends up signing with UF or if he ends up somewhere else, like Duke, and what happens to Beal and his commitment if Rivers decides not to become a Gator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 For the record, Beal did visit the Saint Louis U. campus and took a look. I saw Beal compete in SLU's team camp with his Chaminade team before his freshman year, when he was a sub-6 foot shooting guard who spent most of his time shooting from the perimeter. This was not long after Majerus got the job and got his coaching staff in place. SLU probably should have offered Beal at that point, but there were definitely questions about what kind of prospect he would be down the road. I told Beal's father at that event that Bradley would be a good prospect if he grew a few inches -- both his older brothers were in the 6-3 to 6-5 range -- but I didn't think Bradley would blow up the way he has. He did things as a sophomore a year ago that I've never seen high school kids do. I also would have liked to see an offer right out of the gate like that. SLU knows by now what can happen when you drag your feet on a local kid with potential. Sure, no one could have known he'd blow up to this degree, but it's not like we only hold out for 5-star kids anyway. Hopefully the next Beal from St. Louis gets an offer from SLU before the big guns come knocking. I also had heard that he visited, it just never seemed like a serious push we made. And Roy, though I like to see you supporting the Majerus staff, I think we should have been on the kid early and often. Recruiting a kid who's high school gym is less than 20 minutes away from campus requires a lot less recruiting resources than going after out-of-town kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I also would have liked to see an offer right out of the gate like that. SLU knows by now what can happen when you drag your feet on a local kid with potential. Sure, no one could have known he'd blow up to this degree, but it's not like we only hold out for 5-star kids anyway. Hopefully the next Beal from St. Louis gets an offer from SLU before the big guns come knocking. I also had heard that he visited, it just never seemed like a serious push we made. And Roy, though I like to see you supporting the Majerus staff, I think we should have been on the kid early and often. Recruiting a kid who's high school gym is less than 20 minutes away from campus requires a lot less recruiting resources than going after out-of-town kids. I agree with both Roy and Pistol. He should have been offered sooner. There is no harm in offering a kid. Hell, he'd been to SLU several times and his HS team plays 15 mins away. By the end of his recruitment it is obvious that he stuck with the coaches that recruited him the longest. That could have been SLU. However, if he made it very obvious he wasn't interested in SLU, then you move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 And Roy, though I like to see you supporting the Majerus staff, I think we should have been on the kid early and often. Recruiting a kid who's high school gym is less than 20 minutes away from campus requires a lot less recruiting resources than going after out-of-town kids. you do know the ncaa restricts the "days" that a program can be out recruiting? it makes absolutely no sense to go "early and often" when those recruiting days can be used elsewhere when you know you have little chance of winning. you wont even get your "plan B" if you start doing that too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 you do know the ncaa restricts the "days" that a program can be out recruiting? it makes absolutely no sense to go "early and often" when those recruiting days can be used elsewhere when you know you have little chance of winning. you wont even get your "plan B" if you start doing that too often. Even so, just having a presence in the gym has to help. That's just watching a basketball game, not recruiting. By the way, I agree with you roy..I can just see where Pistol is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 you do know the ncaa restricts the "days" that a program can be out recruiting? it makes absolutely no sense to go "early and often" when those recruiting days can be used elsewhere when you know you have little chance of winning. you wont even get your "plan B" if you start doing that too often. I'm well aware that there are open and dead periods. Whatever KU and Florida did to get him must have been within the rules, right? And my main gripe is that SLU let the other guys offer first. If it's obvious later in the process that he's not interested, yeah, you move on. But there's no reason a local stud shouldn't get our offer and recruiting pitch first, and why we can't be on him just as hard or harder during open periods. Our presence could have been much stronger, and well within NCAA rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'm well aware that there are open and dead periods. Whatever KU and Florida did to get him must have been within the rules, right? And my main gripe is that SLU let the other guys offer first. If it's obvious later in the process that he's not interested, yeah, you move on. But there's no reason a local stud shouldn't get our offer and recruiting pitch first, and why we can't be on him just as hard or harder during open periods. Our presence could have been much stronger, and well within NCAA rules. Kansas and Florida were in on him really early. I'm not sure how much earlier SLU (or anyone) could really have been, short of aggressively recruiting him as an 8th grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'm well aware that there are open and dead periods. Whatever KU and Florida did to get him must have been within the rules, right? And my main gripe is that SLU let the other guys offer first. If it's obvious later in the process that he's not interested, yeah, you move on. But there's no reason a local stud shouldn't get our offer and recruiting pitch first, and why we can't be on him just as hard or harder during open periods. Our presence could have been much stronger, and well within NCAA rules. actually pistol there are solid number of "days" each staff can be out watching kids. for example, if rickma and porter go to one brad beal game together they just spent 2 days. it isnt per kid. it is staff"days" total per year. it is 130 days per staff per academic year. http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/AMA/recruit...all%20Guide.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Even so, just having a presence in the gym has to help. That's just watching a basketball game, not recruiting. -can a coach just go to sluh to watch them play chaminade and not have it count as a day recruiting? i am under the impression this would count but i don't know for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 -can a coach just go to sluh to watch them play chaminade and not have it count as a day recruiting? i am under the impression this would count but i don't know for sure i do not believe so. any view of a high school or aau game would count as a recruiting day is my impression even if there are no "worthy" recruits involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 i do not believe so. any view of a high school or aau game would count as a recruiting day is my impression even if there are no "worthy" recruits involved.What about when Brad would watch Kramer play? Honest question, because that could be a tricky situation with Suggs, Brandenburg, Roundtree, and Femi John all on the same team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 What about when Brad would watch Kramer play? Honest question, because that could be a tricky situation with Suggs, Brandenburg, Roundtree, and Femi John all on the same team. -my understanding is totally different situation as UB was there as a father to his son, not a coach, but that he got to go and it not count as recruiting was an advantage UB had over all the other coaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 -my understanding is totally different situation as UB was there as a father to his son, not a coach, but that he got to go and it not count as recruiting was an advantage UB had over all the other coaches I'll just abstain from commenting. But you all know what I was going to say. Bygones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 What about when Brad would watch Kramer play? Honest question, because that could be a tricky situation with Suggs, Brandenburg, Roundtree, and Femi John all on the same team. it was noted that as long as brad was the coach, he had a free pass to watch any game with his son involved. that said, remember the summer before kramer's senior high school season, he did not play with the eagles and brad lost that advantage that summer then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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