Irons May Cost the Hill Brothers

[Postcard]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...5B?OpenDocument

Bummer.

[NashvilleBilliken]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...5B?OpenDocument

Bummer.

C'mon now, that is just awful. IMO, these kids don't need to be punished like that. They were kids with obviously little to no parental guidance. When I was 14, if an adult...let alone my basketball coach and mentor...tried to give me a bunch of cash and said all I need to do is go to school and shoot hoops, I would have accepted it in a heartbeat. Who wouldn't?? They were used and they probably benefited from it. But I think it's totally unfair to ruin the kids life for making a decision like this when they weren't even old enough to get a learner's permit. I really feel for these guys.

[billiken_roy]

C'mon now, that is just awful. IMO, these kids don't need to be punished like that. They were kids with obviously little to no parental guidance. When I was 14, if an adult...let alone my basketball coach and mentor...tried to give me a bunch of cash and said all I need to do is go to school and shoot hoops, I would have accepted it in a heartbeat. Who wouldn't?? They were used and they probably benefited from it. But I think it's totally unfair to ruin the kids life for making a decision like this when they weren't even old enough to get a learner's permit. I really feel for these guys.

i find it hard to believe that even at 14 and 15 years old they couldnt realize for themselves it was wrong or at the very least fishy. they could have easily sought the advice of a trusted teacher at alton that could have found out. instead they bought into the basketball dream as well. i tell my kids all the time, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. ask questions."

ironically, even from a basketball only standpoint, had they stayed at alton, they might have achieved even more success at alton than they did at vashon as alton had some nice teams at the same time they finished at vashon.

[brianstl]

i find it hard to believe that even at 14 and 15 years old they couldnt realize for themselves it was wrong or at the very least fishy. they could have easily sought the advice of a trusted teacher at alton that could have found out. instead they bought into the basketball dream as well. i tell my kids all the time, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. ask questions."

ironically, even from a basketball only standpoint, had they stayed at alton, they might have achieved even more success at alton than they did at vashon as alton had some nice teams at the same time they finished at vashon.

Come on Roy. You can't fault kids who were being used by people in authority posistions. Hell the kids dad was in on it. These kids have had it bad enough already and they do not need to be punished for it again. The fact they had nobody looking out for their best interest in some of their most formative years should be punishment enough.

[Majerus Magic]

C'mon now, that is just awful. IMO, these kids don't need to be punished like that. They were kids with obviously little to no parental guidance. When I was 14, if an adult...let alone my basketball coach and mentor...tried to give me a bunch of cash and said all I need to do is go to school and shoot hoops, I would have accepted it in a heartbeat. Who wouldn't?? They were used and they probably benefited from it. But I think it's totally unfair to ruin the kids life for making a decision like this when they weren't even old enough to get a learner's permit. I really feel for these guys.

Punish Irons but leave the kids alone. let bygones be bygones.

[Postcard]

Come on Roy. You can't fault kids who were being used by people in authority posistions. Hell the kids dad was in on it. These kids have had it bad enough already and they do not need to be punished for it again. The fact they had nobody looking out for their best interest in some of their most formative years should be punishment enough.

Seriously Roy. If their own father was it on what is going to lead them to seek the advice of a "trusted teacher." What kind of After School Special life do you think these kids led? So I guess if someone took advantage of one of your children when they were 14yrs old you would have told them "well, sorry you should have known better. You should have known that the trusted authority figure who raped/conned/stole from/misled/pick your injustice was up to no good. No go to your room." Nice parenting.

[Pistol]

Seriously Roy. If their own father was it on what is going to lead them to seek the advice of a "trusted teacher." What kind of After School Special life do you think these kids led? So I guess if someone took advantage of one of your children when they were 14yrs old you would have told them "well, sorry you should have known better. You should have known that the trusted authority figure who raped/conned/stole from/misled/pick your injustice was up to no good. No go to your room." Nice parenting.

At the same time, if the kids receive no punishment, then what is the incentive for kids in their situation in the future not to take cash, housing, food, cars, etc.?

I hate to see an example made out of teenage kids, but they knowingly accepted these benefits that they aren't supposed to receive.

The shame of it is that when you have a high-pressure coach from a winning program on one hand and your own father on the other hand both telling you to do the same thing, you aren't going to say no.

[NashvilleBilliken]

i find it hard to believe that even at 14 and 15 years old they couldnt realize for themselves it was wrong or at the very least fishy. they could have easily sought the advice of a trusted teacher at alton that could have found out. instead they bought into the basketball dream as well. i tell my kids all the time, "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. ask questions."

ironically, even from a basketball only standpoint, had they stayed at alton, they might have achieved even more success at alton than they did at vashon as alton had some nice teams at the same time they finished at vashon.

I would bet that the kids had some idea that everything wasn't Kosher. But they are kids. And they DID ask a "trusted teacher"...in fact the "trusted teacher" is the one who screwed them over. That's the problem...when the only person you have to go to is a scumbag, you're gonna have these issues. I'd love to pretend like I was some brilliant teenager who never screwed up, but that isn't the case. Luckily, I had a dad who wouldn't hesitate to let me know when I screwed up. When I was growing up, what dad said goes. These kids didn't have that luxury. They didn't kill anybody, they didn't rob anybody. They really didn't even commit a crime. They are guilty of listening to a "hall of fame" coach and mentor who pretended to have there best interests in mind.

[BIG BILL FAN]

Come on Roy. You can't fault kids who were being used by people in authority posistions. Hell the kids dad was in on it. These kids have had it bad enough already and they do not need to be punished for it again. The fact they had nobody looking out for their best interest in some of their most formative years should be punishment enough.

Brian, I agree with you to a point that the kids were victims, that said to allow them to continue playing at their respective colleges is wrong. They are in clear violation of the rules. It is a sad fact of life, that the misdeeds of others often hurt the innocent. I hope Irons spends many years behind bars and that others use him as a prime example of why you should do things the right way. As a side note it is my understanding that neither of the Hill brothers is doing very well academically, in fact one left ISU because of his grades and was hoping to return. At some point there has to be some personal accountability.

[STLRedbird]

Someone purporting to be Bobby Hill's coach at Lincoln College posted this on the Redbird board. Thought it provided an interesting take on this, so I'm posting it here:

I probably shouldn't do this but I am going to anyway. I am Bobby Hill's current coach at Lincoln College. There are some things being posted here that I know are not accurate and I would like to clear them up.

1) Bobby Hill was never ineligible at ISU. The academic staff and Coach Jankovich met and felt after conferring that Bobby would be better served shoring up one specific academic in a situation with smaller class sizes. Coach J met with Bobby and because Bobby trusts Coach J he agreed to leave ISU. Make no mistake, Bobby loves ISU and misses his teammates. He is working very hard to rejoin them.

2) The reporter at the St Louis Post Dispatch is doing his best to blow this situation up and sell papers. While the story about Coach Irons is quite sensational and it apparently could destroy the legacy of the Vashon dynasty, it most likely will not be a situation that leads to either of the Hill brothers being declared pros. They were 14 to 16 years old when this deal was cut. They were told where they would live and what school they would go to and they did. That is what kids do.

3) There are kids all over this country living with HS coaches, aunties, friends, and even ritzy prep schools and boarding schools. Their rent and meals are being provided. As a matter of fact almost every NCAA D1 athlete is recieving everything Bobby and Johnny Hill allegedly recieved. Are they now pros? Also, please remember, all names are blacked out on the document and the paper is surmising that it is the Hill brothers. I never knew them in HS so I don't really know where they lived or about any arrangements.

4) Their father is a man of very limited means. Their mother left when they were very young and their father did his best to feed and clothe them. He apparently crossed paths with Coach Irons and found a place where his boys would be fed, housed and clothed with future promises of college opportunities. Not much more any father could ask for when he really didn't now where money for the next meal was coming from. I know it is hard for some to understand but poverty isn't just in 3rd world countries. It is on our doorstep and believe me, from what I know, the Hills know first hand. I hope you will keep Bobby and Johnny in your thoughts.

5) Bobby is doing a great job for us and he can't wait to be a Redbird again!!!!

Redbirdfan forum thread on Bobby Hill

[Guest BillikenReport]

Johnny Hill has been declared ineligible:

http://gosoutheast.cstv.com/sports/m-baskb.../021908aaa.html

[SLU Hilljack]

Johnny Hill has been declared ineligible:

http://gosoutheast.cstv.com/sports/m-baskb.../021908aaa.html

Didn't something like this happen with the Rush brothers back in the day with Pembroke Hill in Kansas City? For some reason I thought that was why the youngest, Brandon, ended up going to Paseo and not Pembroke, because some booster put up his older brothers tuition and housed them throughout high school. Does this sound remotely familiar to anyone or did something else entirely happen with the Rush's?

[billiken_roy]

Come on Roy. You can't fault kids who were being used by people in authority posistions. Hell the kids dad was in on it. These kids have had it bad enough already and they do not need to be punished for it again. The fact they had nobody looking out for their best interest in some of their most formative years should be punishment enough.

my position may sound draconian, but if a stand is taken, then just maybe the word is out that it cant be done and idiots dont try to circumvent or abuse the rules in place.

again, i dont think it is outrageous to expect the kids to understand that what they were doing wasnt right. they may be caught in the middle, but so be it. no different than if a school would cheat on the ACT for them and got caught. that wouldnt give the kids a free pass into school. they would be out.

[billiken_roy]

Seriously Roy. If their own father was it on what is going to lead them to seek the advice of a "trusted teacher." What kind of After School Special life do you think these kids led? So I guess if someone took advantage of one of your children when they were 14yrs old you would have told them "well, sorry you should have known better. You should have known that the trusted authority figure who raped/conned/stole from/misled/pick your injustice was up to no good. No go to your room." Nice parenting.

well you have reached a new low postcard. comparing rape to taking ill gotten gains money.

[Postcard]

well you have reached a new low postcard. comparing rape to taking ill gotten gains money.

Like usual, you're missing the point. If an authority like your wife misleads your 14yr old son/daughter, are you going to punish your kid for trusting their own mother? I'm guessing the anser is no. So why are you going to punish the Hill boys. We know your draconian views on punishment and what a tough guy you are. Youve' stated those many times before. We get it. You're a hard ass and kids should be jailed for missing curfew.

[NashvilleBilliken]

my position may sound draconian, but if a stand is taken, then just maybe the word is out that it cant be done and idiots dont try to circumvent or abuse the rules in place.

again, i dont think it is outrageous to expect the kids to understand that what they were doing wasnt right. they may be caught in the middle, but so be it. no different than if a school would cheat on the ACT for them and got caught. that wouldnt give the kids a free pass into school. they would be out.

I agree that the kids need a punishment of some sort, I just don't think it needs to be so severe. I just think saying "I know you were taken advantage of by your mentor when you were 14. I know that as a result you recieved a piss poor education and are completely unprepared for the real world. I know your family has no money and will never be able to help you get an education. But I need to make an example out of you, so piss the f*$@ off" is not a good approach.

I would hope that at a place of higher learning, they could come up with a better way to deal with this young man. (From what I know)He isn't out there starting brawls in nightclubs. They aren't slingin drugs or beating women. They made an ill-advised decision that really hurt nobody except themselves.

I guess we'll just disagree on this issue.

[billiken_roy]

Like usual, you're missing the point. If an authority like your wife misleads your 14yr old son/daughter, are you going to punish your kid for trusting their own mother? I'm guessing the anser is no. So why are you going to punish the Hill boys. We know your draconian views on punishment and what a tough guy you are. Youve' stated those many times before. We get it. You're a hard ass and kids should be jailed for missing curfew.

assuming you are no longer talking about felonies, your last sentence is closer to the truth in my house. no i am not going to send them to jail, but i can say my kids have never missed a curfew at my house. i have also told them that if they land in jail for any reason, they will sit there for awhile. i have lectured them on "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" isnt a suitable excuse. they need to have the foresight to not put themselves in position for that to even happen. and i can guarantee you we have talked about the perils of hearing of "too good to be true" situations and questioning what is going on.

parents need to take responsibility for the upbringing of their children and teaching them right from wrong and not being so quick to alway defend their child for the fix those children put themselves in.

second, to think that your wife would put your children in such a predicament is very sad. i like to think my wife and my partnership in raising our kids has a better outlook and result than that. and because of that attention and guideance we have given our children, they make better decisions. when as adults we agree to have children that should be a responsibility that we as parents need to understand and perform.

if your household isnt such, i am sorry and i hope your kids make it.

how this relates to the hill's? well unfortunately apparently the father made ill advised and greedy decisions. and with that he put his son's future in peril. too bad. my hope is that the hill boy's now learn that when they have children they wont ruin their son or daughter's future the same way.

[STL Hoops Insider]

assuming you are no longer talking about felonies, your last sentence is closer to the truth in my house. no i am not going to send them to jail, but i can say my kids have never missed a curfew at my house. i have also told them that if they land in jail for any reason, they will sit there for awhile. i have lectured them on "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" isnt a suitable excuse. they need to have the foresight to not put themselves in position for that to even happen. and i can guarantee you we have talked about the perils of hearing of "too good to be true" situations and questioning what is going on.

parents need to take responsibility for the upbringing of their children and teaching them right from wrong and not being so quick to alway defend their child for the fix those children put themselves in.

second, to think that your wife would put your children in such a predicament is very sad. i like to think my wife and my partnership in raising our kids has a better outlook and result than that. and because of that attention and guideance we have given our children, they make better decisions. when as adults we agree to have children that should be a responsibility that we as parents need to understand and perform.

if your household isnt such, i am sorry and i hope your kids make it.

how this relates to the hill's? well unfortunately apparently the father made ill advised and greedy decisions. and with that he put his son's future in peril. too bad. my hope is that the hill boy's now learn that when they have children they wont ruin their son or daughter's future the same way.

You would really let your kids sit in jail, even if they did nothing wrong? If someone stabbed or killed them while they were in there, would you be able to forgive yourself?

[Postcard]

You would really let your kids sit in jail, even if they did nothing wrong? If someone stabbed or killed them while they were in there, would you be able to forgive yourself?

Of course he would. It would prove how tough he is.

[Guest BillikenReport]

The Hill brothers situation right now isn't that much different than the Rush brothers with Myron Piggie.

[sltom6]

Of course he would. It would prove how tough he is.

It's not about showing how tough you are. It's about teaching your kids that actions have consquences...something called "parenting". Someday you guys may understand that. I hope for your kid's sake you do. He/she will be better for it.

[Pistol]

You would really let your kids sit in jail, even if they did nothing wrong? If someone stabbed or killed them while they were in there, would you be able to forgive yourself?

If they were in a holding cell for getting in trouble one night, they would be in there with whoever else is in trouble that night (drunks and the like), none of whom would have weapons. When you get in there, they take everything from your pockets along with your belt, shoes/shoelaces, etc. They even feed you a bologna sandwich. I think Roy means if they get arrested one night for something dumb, a few hours in a holding cell isn't going to kill them.

[Postcard]

It's not about showing how tough you are. It's about teaching your kids that actions have consquences...something called "parenting". Someday you guys may understand that. I hope for your kid's sake you do. He/she will be better for it.

YOu and Roy are missing the whole point. THEIR FATHER WHO WAS THE ONLY PARENT IN THIER LIFE WAS RIGHT BEHIND THE DECISION. So you tell me if you were raised by your broke ass father all your life and at 14 he told you that you were going to move play for the basketball powerhouse in the area and all your needs would be taken care, what would you have done?

We can all agree that the Hill brothers father didn't do a great job so why take it out on the kids? They were doing as told in the environment they grew up in.

[STL Hoops Insider]

If they were in a holding cell for getting in trouble one night, they would be in there with whoever else is in trouble that night (drunks and the like), none of whom would have weapons. When you get in there, they take everything from your pockets along with your belt, shoes/shoelaces, etc. They even feed you a bologna sandwich. I think Roy means if they get arrested one night for something dumb, a few hours in a holding cell isn't going to kill them.

Too many variables. Things go terribly wrong all the time. I think you get them out ASAP, and deal with them accordingly at home.

[moytoy12]

You would really let your kids sit in jail, even if they did nothing wrong? If someone stabbed or killed them while they were in there, would you be able to forgive yourself?

LOL...thanks for the laugh v. Honestly, I don't even know why i'm laughing, i guess its your proclivity to take threads and them spiraling off on some tangent.